Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Are People More Upset By Nudity Than Violence?
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Set1229
 Posts: 146 Location: Pittsburgh |
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As an American, I can say that this stereotype of Americans is simply an exaggeration.
I like action, but if an action anime is so over-the-top that it can't be taken seriously, I think of it as a joke. As for the sexy stuff, I wouldn't say we're sheltered, but rather some of us just aren't amused by it. There are American anime fans that don't like ecchi, but aren't snobs about it. I should know, I'm one of them. I also think a misunderstanding of why some don't like sex anime in America is not because of "culture". Sometimes, fans will just find themselves creeped out by lewd characters and think, "this may be a dream for most, but I wouldn't want to be surrounded by these sex machines, as the seduction would be more annoying to me in real life." Some people like sex comedy, some don't. Let's think of violence as ketchup or/and sex as mustard. We all have our preferences. |
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Sailor Sedna
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Hope I'm not off topic, but these are my two cents.
The nude transformations and such was why I (who am Protestant Christian) couldn't watch Sailor Moon at first as a kid (and I was shielded from anything that had to do with sexual/kinky stuff until my teens), but frankly I don't understand why people complain about that nor the final episode of the original anime, it's really most of the time no worse than a naked Barbie doll. Frankly it's nothing that bothers me at all, but usually with fanservice, it's usually hit/miss with me, and heck, but usually with me I try to look at a character's personality and then I can decide whether or not they've got a good set of knockers (Honey Kisaragi, Reiko Mikami, Urd). Seeing how some people have mentioned hentai, I've glimpsed at stuff of them, but one thing I'd admit is a lot of them feel very shallow in terms of characters or story content, not saying I'd do this but if I had to do a series like that, instead of focusing on the whole reason hentais are enjoyed by a lot of people, I'd also try to add an actual ongoing story/plot and character development. I think there are some violent scenes in anime that I actually found really more disturbing than anything with nudity (like in the Hokuto no Ken film, when a bunch of people including even babies/kids were brutally killed, though it wasn't graphic, I found that slightly disturbing, and this is from someone who thought the head exploding scenes in there were comedic and who enjoys Happy Wheels, which is very gory). And I also say, screw lolicon/shotacon though, enough said. At least that's a good reason for people to get disturbed over. I accidentally bought a doujinshi of the former subject matter at a con once and it hit the trash can. Last edited by Sailor Sedna on Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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That's a bit misinformative: 1. Jews only banned polygamy around 1000 CE, and only in Ashkenazic countries, in one of the famous bans of Rabbeinu Gershom. In Islamic countries, where marrying more than one wife is often legal, it was allowed within Jewish religious law, too (and some people think it should be allowed in Modern Israel today, but I don't think they have any traction). It was never common practice, though. 2. The rumor about Satmer Chassidim and toys probably comes from this profile in the New York Times Magazine of a sex therapist who works primarily with Chassidic women. Since so many of her clients had never experienced orgasm, she asked Rabbinic leaders if they were allowed to use vibrators and they approved of that idea over erotic literature, since they didn't want to the women to develop sexual thoughts about anyone other than their husbands. These were women who were married, some for a decade or longer--that hardly supports the notion that all sects of Jews are "pro sex"--some are (Rabbi Shmuely Boteach's book Kosher Sex is a famous example), some aren't. In theory, you're right in that sex doesn't have the stigma in Judaism as, say, Catholicism, where clerics are expected to be celibate, but you could say that about most Christian sects as well. (And this has been really off topic episode of "Ask A Jewish Girl About Sex On An Anime Website"  )
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Blanchimont
 Posts: 3462 Location: Finland |
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Could we please drop that already. As an atheist I take offense to that statement. Gods are man-made so whether islamic, Christian or Jewish, their compass is no more objective either. Considering books of tales tend to remain static and societies usually evolve over time, it's actually worse... |
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CatSword
 Posts: 1489 |
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The FCC doesn't have any control over Adult Swim since Cartoon Network isn't broadcast over the public airwaves. It's entirely advertisers and/or internal worry at the network from the S&P department that causes shows to still be censored. I'd like to think that standards are evolving as basic cable realizes it'll die if it can't compete with Netflix. For example, you can say "fxxk" on FX, Syfy, and USA now. A few years ago, Adult Swim mostly stopped bleeping the words "shit", "goddamn", and "asshole". And while nudity is for the most part still a no-go, they're pushing the envelope further than they have in the past, leaving intact all the fanservice (including erect nipples through bikini tops) in Outlaw Star's "Hot Springs Planet Tenrei" except for airbrushing out Aisha's nipples. (Why on earth are nipples, in particular, the devil?) |
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Lactobacillus yogurti
 Posts: 846 Location: Latin America |
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This has been a debate that has gone on for years, if not centuries. Many cultures and civilizations were okay with nudity or semi-nudity because they had different standards of attractiveness/beauty. In some islands in Greece, women bared their breasts (they even painted their nipples with different colors) but they covered their shoulders, just to give an example, and even nowadays, some South American tribes still leave the breasts uncovered simply because they just see them as organs to feed their children with. They're just "baby bottles", to put it simply yet crassly.
But later, within Europe, they started to cover these because of a fear of women being temptresses (refer to Genesis in the Bible, to give a quick example), and they started enforcing an idea of modesty, brought on by the Church. People started thinking "oh, if you're cultured, you'll follow the tenets that our Holy Church believes in" and everyone else was seen as barbaric. But since humankind is a walking contradiction, the idea of modesty and "covering things" also made a "taboo" desirable. So what originally was merely something to read children with became an object of desire. Women's bodies were desirable (hell, they always were because we're visual creatures), but now that they had to hide it, it was even more appealing. That's why some men like it when there's "something left to their imagination". So when representatives of the Church arrived to the New World, and saw that the natives didn't follow their rules, they imposed their beliefs, their religions and forced the locals to cover up. That didn't stop some of the Europeans from taking advantage of the native women, who had a very different mindset from that of the clergy. Even in music there was this issue. Women weren't allowed to think, create or play music for decades, due to the misconception that "their brains weren't suited for the sophistication of new techniques" (brought on by the current belief that women were almost evil and they were only good for having children). But with the Renaissance came a time where women started singing (with a consequent decline in castrati). Men were okay with them singing, not hiding behind anything but their clothes. But they didn't like it if a woman "hid" behind an instrument, as they couldn't "imagine them without their clothes", which in more radical terms (trying not to sound like a feminazi here) is now considered objectification of women. To make a long story short, the main reason why in the West we make a scandal over a nip slip, or anything else that "shouldn't be seen" is because the imposition Europe made over us between the 15th and 17th century of their beliefs and "culture" taught us that the body is a sin, but people have always had a taste for the "forbidden fruit". That's why when we were kids and we were exploring out bodies, our parents taught us that it was bad, because of the way they themselves were brought up. Just my $0.02. The microbe hath spoken. |
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Heishi
 Posts: 1328 |
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My take on fanservice is a little bit messy, to say the least.
However, I agree the way a lot of fanservice shows are built up is absolutely ridiculous. The constant guy-getting-hit-by-girl thing is just grating beyond belief and that's one of the reasons I love Aho Girl. |
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Yaafm
Posts: 31 |
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Religion. That is THE reason its evolved this way in NA. I mean, hell, a section of USA is called 'The Bible Belt'. That is the sole reason for it, everything else comes from there in NA.
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yurihellsing
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While mulling it over while almost half asleep on the Bus this morning it dawned on me that this thread has been quite sexist and here's why in two simple points. 1. There seems to be a belief that fan service is only for an enjoyed by males 2. That female characters are only capable of delivering fan service. Also the ridiculous over focus on Breasts and Buttocks is annoying too and again here's why. Did no one notice just how gorgeous Hotaru's Calves are and I'm not going to lie Astolfo has really nice legs. also the Narrow definition of fanservice is a little annoying too. |
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Jonny Mendes
 Posts: 997 Location: Europe |
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With the amount of fanservice for women that are appearing nowadays, is true that the discussion only focusing on female nudity and fanservice for men are a bit too much. Females also love their man nudity and fanservice. Also I agree with you about Breasts and Buttocks, For me the best is thighs. Zettai Ryouiki (Absolute Territory) is the best in terms of Moe and fanservice. |
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Spawn29
Posts: 551 |
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I also feel like with nudity, people do get more upset by it if it is a nude scene of someone under 18 because you can get lock up for child porn. With blood and gore, no one cares how violent it is as long no one was hurt or killed when making it. You can watch all of the fudge up violent movies and anime you want, the FBI would care less. Meanwhile, looking up nudes of a kid character will probably have the FBI coming in at your door.
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1779 Location: South America |
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That's because in western culture women are regarded as pure and innocent creatures hence they don't have fetishes and lewd thoughts. Also, in western culture objectifying males is not regarded as problem while objectifying women is regarded as extremely offensive. That's why fanservice with females only irks the people here. Nobody in the western anime fan community complains that stuff like Free objectifies men, for instance, while complains that women are objectified in slice of life titles are common. That's why even in western children's animated movies you can see examples of objectification of men (see How to Train Your Dragon 2). Of course, historically it is extremely rare to see men objectified in western culture (since in western culture, women were trained to have no conception of developing lewd thoughts so they didn't objectify males). So the lack of reaction is perhaps due to lack of experience. Another thing I noticed is that in manga/anime it's much more common to see violence involving females than in Western fiction. It's much more common to see girls getting beaten up in many manga/anime titles see Claymore or PMMM for obvious examples, or more recently, Violent Evergarden. While according to Van Creveld (2013) you are 200 times more likely to see a man killed in a Western movie than a women. The reason is that in Western culture regards depicting women (and children) being the target of violence as abusive and unacceptable (even if its just fiction, the idea is that the though of a women losing her limbs to a rifle shot, like in Violet in Violet Evergarden, is something that shouldn't be even brought into existence). |
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Spawn29
Posts: 551 |
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People still consider blood and gore bad for kids. People still think your kid will become the next Jeffrey Dahmer if you them to play GTA. You don't even get dark kids stuff in the US anymore. Stuff like Watership Down, Batman: TAS, Gargoyles, Secret of Nimh, The Black Cauldron and even the Indiana Jones movies was made for kids & families and had dark & violent themes to them. I still remember that people felt like Gargoyles was too good to be a kids American cartoon and it felt more closer to a Shonen Jump title in Japan. |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Something I want to point out that I rarely ever see: Just as how sexual stuff in fiction is something Americans have a tough time with and violence is with Europe, I noticed that Japan, and this is shared with much of Asia in general, has a general problem of poking fun of their political figures, a problem the Americans and European do not have. Or social satire, for that matter.
The way I see it, every place has its own taboos. However, a taboo against criticism of one's government I see as problematic, as that's a form of control of information and something I associate with dictatorships.
Well, in Europe, there is similar sensitivity to violence, such that a number of video games have had to be toned down. The prime example is No More Heroes, a game whose violence is apparently so intense that the blood was replaced in both the Japanese and European versions, with only the American version left intact. I DO notice there aren't a lot of horror movies to come out of Europe too, looking at that Scandinavia and the World comic.
That's something I had thought about regarding fanservice in anime too. (Well, sexual fanservice aimed at heterosexual males, specifically.) Because boys and girls in schools in Japan are discouraged from mingling with each other too much, as well as Japanese culture being much less focused on socialization than North America (and South America...and most of Europe...heck, almost the entire western world), boys have a "girls are mysterious" mindset for much longer, often going all the way into adulthood. That reminds me--there are a lot more anime set in high school than in college, despite Japanese people spending more time in college than high school. I wonder why. Perhaps I should submit that as a question.
I didn't really interpret it that way. I don't believe for a second that violent media causes more people to become violent, but I do believe that violent media can cause people who have latent violent streaks to loosen their inhibitions. For that, it comes down to self-control. (For the record, I find there are many, many factors that lead to school shootings, but the largest amount of them is due to adults not paying attention to what the kids are doing and the problems they may be causing. Bullying is the most prevalent problem, and only recently has there been popular serious thought on bullying and that it doesn't simply go away because you tell the bully to please stop hurting people.)
What I find kind of funny is that Akira Toriyama has a fetish for that. (Though to my memory, he has refrained from writing that into any of his manga.)
I think the question is asking what anime there are for whom violence is not only the main draw, but the central thing. That is, you have tons of fanservice shows where there IS a plot, but it's just an excuse to get the protagonist into sexy situations and doesn't even try to hide it--that is, the fanservice IS the goal, even if it's unintentional, whereas there are relatively few anime that uses violence as a goal, rather than a means the characters use to achieve that goal. That's why there were those comparisons to snuff films: Those are the movies where violence is there for violence's sake. Their marketing is solely about the violence, and you're not really supposed to watch for any other reason. For most anime with a lot of horrific violence, there IS a plot to provide a reason to stay other than the violence, but there aren't many anime with an excuse plot like that. I hope I got my point across--I realized I was having trouble wording it properly.
Though it depends on what you mean, between film and television series, I'll keep going until I name six. Television series: South Park, The Simpsons, Bobby's World, Aqua Teen Hunger Force (and I'll refrain from listing any other Williams Street series, as they alone number at least a dozen), Superman: The Animated Series, Rick & Morty. Film (not including South Park: Bigger, Longer, Uncut: The Black Cauldron, The Lion King, The Brave Little Toaster, My Little Pony: The Movie (2017) (well, it's Canadian, but it certainly came out of left field when I saw it), Watership Down, Shrek. Special mention to Coco--considering most of the movie takes place in the Land of the Dead, there are a handful of onscreen deaths to show how these characters got there.
I've always wondered if the prevalence of hentai in Japan is a factor in the nation's shrinking population...
On the other hand, the prevalence of comedies in western TV animation in the present is equally, if not more so, traceable to how they're less expensive to make without it actually looking cheap. That being said, there HAVE been shows recently that deal with darker themes, though mostly on Cartoon Network (Clarence, Steven Universe, Over the Garden Wall), though there's somepretty extreme network favoritism going on there that's crowding out anything that isn't Teen Titans GO! I don't think Five Nights at Freddy's was supposed to be for kids, but man, did it catch on with them like wildfire. It's gotten to the moint that Target department stores have cardobard cutouts of Freddy Fazbear. Aside from that though, there doesn't really seem to be that much demand among kids right now of much besides fast-paced slapstick comedies and larger-than-life heroes (or, in the case of Mighty Magiswords, both). |
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yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
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Political scientists would classify Japan as having a "deferential" political culture that discourages dissent and encourages unquestioning support for leaders. Even a parody like The Legend of Koizumi is basically a paean to the power of a single leader. One writer who consistently takes on political repression and the fascistic aspects of Japanese political culture is Nakashima Kazuki. His stage play, Oh! Edo Rocket, describes artistic and political repression during the "Tenpou Reforms" and was adapted as an anime by Madhouse in 2007. Kill la Kill opens in a history classroom discussing Hitler followed soon thereafter by Satsuki giving her best "1984" speech. Gatchaman Crowds is concerned about how social media could be manipulated into a force for what might be called "soft" fascism. These themes are especially clear in the second installment, Gatchaman Crowds Insight. Okada Mari might have been thinking of the Tenpou period as well when she penned AKB0048 about idols fighting against a repressive galactic government for the right to entertain. |
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