Forum - View topicNEWS: Naruto Licensed by ShoPro Entertainment
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Secondly, look up the definition of the word "ethics". Thirdly, in the Capitalist world no one watches TV "for free". Be thankful you don't live on an island where you have to pay a TV license fee of close to $200 a year to watch one, as well as suffer through the 3 minute ad breaks too. If Your watching a program on your TV from a TV station, you can be sure that some big dosh was handed out by that station to get the rights to transmit it. Dose they hope to recoup by getting as many people as possible to watch it, and then sell those people to advertisers. The higher the amount of people watching, the higher the fee to the advertisers. In Commercial Television one second can be worth $1k - $5k, or more. And if you think your not apart of that then next time your out buying groceries, petrol (gasoline), car, etc., ask yourself why you are buying that brand of (insert product here) and where you first heard about it. Anything free is usually only worth the money you paid for it, and if it is worth something then; A.) The rightful owner gave it to you as a gift, or B.) you stole it. 
Last edited by Mohawk52 on Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Vantos
 Posts: 102 |
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Naruto will be the trial by fire for fansubbers. If those DVD sales aren't excellent...let the lawsuits fly.
Fansubbing may have been good, even necessary in the past, but it's 2005 now, the fansubbers' goal of worldwide anime exposure has been accomplished with stunning results. It's time for fansubbers to gracefully step aside. Their time is up. Really, these fansubbers...someone tell them that anime is a business. Without the money, they cannot produce more series for us to enjoy. Personally, I'll just stick with the manga only because it's cheaper. P.S.: Why don't the Japanese companies just kick it MPAA-style with the fansubbers? Under the Berne Convention treaty, they CAN do that, you know. I mean, just imagine this: [CorporationPublicServiceAnnouncement] No warnings. No letters. No settlements out of court. No excuses. FANSUBBERS GO TO JAIL! Paid for by the Japanese-American Federation Against Anime Piracy [/CorporationPublicServiceAnnouncement] |
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Steventheeunuch
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Money. Trust me, I along with many other companies and what not would take no greater pleasure in utterly destroying these people, but the fact is until they get a license dealt out to the region, it's a bit like streching across to the other end of the table for mint sauce. (basically, money for translators, lawyers, all that crap, stuff that COULD be going into increasing productions or revitalizing current ones) |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Joe Mello
 Posts: 2272 Location: Online Terminal |
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*BUZZZZZZZZZZ* *BUM BUM BADUMMMMM BAHHHHHHHHHHHHH* You do know there is such a thing as esoteric humor, right? Not every Japanese joke and/or reference translates into English. Also, some of the stuff they put in the dub is somewhat amusing. I do, however, miss the old school Fox days when less was sacred. Why are people complaining about the R=L rule?! It's not like this is new or anything. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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I pay about $50 per month for my Internet Connection, which is about the same as the plan I'd need to watch Naruto. Same dif.
Sure, why not? Most US shows are available even before anime are.
Well that's just ridiculous. Plenty of anime makes its way on to television, a trend which is accellerating, not decellerating. As for DVD sales, the same people would still buy anime DVDs as currently buy DVDs of shows like Friends, or Alias, which already run on US TV. There's no reason not to (well, aside from the fact that fansubs are generally superior if you prefer the subtitled version). Mainly it would be the people who watch tv ON tv that would not be buying the DVDs. I don't know why you guys feel the need to go so overboard about this.
And rightfully so. Dear Lord, you do realize how much you could buy for the price of the entire run of Naruto (up to current at least), don't you? You could feed a single person for a year (modestly), or an entire familly for a few months. That's just nuts. Or, for the same price as what amounts to 5 seasons of Naruto (at standard market prices), you could buy all three seasons of Alias (an hour long program), the entire run of Buffy (7 hour long seasons), all five seasons of Angel, all three seasons of Family Guy, and at least two to three seasons of Stargate. That's 429 hours of solid entertainment for the same price as 60 hours of Naruto (if you don't like those shows, I'm sure you could find any 429 hours of whatever US shows you do like for roughly the same cost). Unless you really NEED to have DVD copies of the show (like some Japanese people choose to do), there's no reaosn you should have to pay that much. If all you want to do is watch each episode once, there should be a better way. Now I'm all for alternative pricing models, but the current one is unfair to many consumers. The simple fact remains that, like many people, without fansubs I would not be able to watch anime except what airs on tv. They wouldn't get a dime from me either way, as I do not consider anime DVDs to be worth my money. I do have ethics, perhaps not the same as yours, but they are quite functional. I don't watch for free what I would be willing to pay to watch, and I later buy anything I would pay to watch. If that's not good enough for the anime industry then they obviously care no more about me than I care about them, so why should I bother caring what happens to them? |
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beelzebozo
 Posts: 308 Location: Aurora, Colorado |
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Money is a big part of it. There is also other considerations, such as "intent to do business". Japanese companies that have American branches will have a better case because they show that they intend to do business here. Those that don't will have a strike against them because there is reasonable doubt that they are not intending to do business here, so if the animation company doesn't intend a US release, there is a case that they can't lose money they never intended to make. However, this is all legal speak and usually flies against common sense. The days of the fansubber being a credit to the community are dropping fast. I think it would be better if they moved their energy into other projects, such as: - Forming companies to get the rights to favorite series they want to see or see "done right" - Start up subscriber services online to let people legally download and view anime for small fee (a'la iTunes) - Start up rental stores in their area to make anime easy to view. I think we should start looking at solutions, not just ways to prop up an old model or justify it's behavior. |
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Kazuki-san
 Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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Yeah right. I'm sure every ep of CSI airs on Japanese broadcast TV, and the same day it airs here. Which, BTW I did a quick search, and the CSI 2nd Boxset (eps 12-23) is $122 in Japan (or a bit more then $11 an episode). Conversely you can get the entire Season 1 box here for a mere $67.49 from Amazon. It's the way importing of series works.
It's not ridiculous at all. If everyone had your "I want it all for free" attitude, it would be the reality. Thankfully, most of us feel the need to reward the creators for their works, as well as the companies that work hard to bring the stuff over here.
Dear Lord, do you realize how much you could buy for the price of a Cadillac Escalade? Yet people still buy them. I know people that will skimp on just about anything yet buy expensive cars. You save up for what you want, plain and simple.
You're right.. you could. Why? Because American TV shows make their money from advertising first, and DVD sales second. Anime is the exact opposite. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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No, but it is available on the Internet before it even airs on tv Pactific Time Zone. It'd in English, I have no idea what the Japanese fansubbing community is like, but a lot more Japanese people speak English than the other way around anyways.
I feel that need, but not $6.50 and episode worth. If there was a way to pay a fair amount for each DVD, I'd probably do it. I spend a lot of money on comics each week (not to mention food and stuff), so a few bucks for anime wouldn't be an issue, but right now the ONLY way to pay for anime is to pay outrageous amounts (which I cannot afford) for DVDs(which I do not need, since I'll never watch them again).
Wow. Just wow. I cannot think of anything that would make that position a rational defense. Yes, people pay a lot for a car. Cars let you go places and do things. Further, they are a status symbol, and have been shown to get you jobs, access, and women that you could not otherwise achieve. A good car isn't a terrible investment. $800 for 60 hours of entertainment is a terrible investment no matter how you try to rationalize it.
How so? Anime airs in Japan, they recoup the cost of making it off of advertising. Then they sell DVDs, along with thousands of other merchandizing items. Bonus money. They they sell the rights overseas, also bonus money. Yay! Now sure, my buying practices might cut into the US market's end, but I don't care about them. There are a great many companies that I cannot afford to care about. I also don't eat peas, so I guess I should cry myself to sleep every night over the fate of the American pea farmer. |
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ac_dropout
Posts: 88 Location: Newark, NJ |
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Yippeee.
I want to start the following petition to Shopro/Viz. 1) Rename Naruto to Norman in the USA release. 2) Start the Series from Season 3 and use footage from Season 1 and 2 as flashback footage like HK kung fu flicks. It will make more sense this way. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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So...why on Earth are you trolling the thread trying to stir up trouble? |
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ShellBullet
 Posts: 1051 Location: I hit things, with my fist. |
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Lies, all lies I tell you! You are typing on a computer; you have access to anime rentals. You have no more excuses whatsoever. There is no reason that you couldn't see the entire run of Naruto or whatever else through places like Greencine. A few years ago your arguments might have had a shred of validity, but not anymore. 
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championferret
 Posts: 765 |
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This be turning into one massive flame war (like every other topic I guess) Anyway I wanna rule a few things straight: To the people against buying the dvds: 1. You wouldnt be watching it on TV 'just like the japanese do' as they are watching it in japanese. It's a cruel world, I know, but you have to pay to get a sub. Unless it's of course a fansub which takes us back to the whole 'fansubs are illegal, no one is getting money for the show they made, blablabla etc etc'. To the people against being against buying the dvds: 1. Not everyone has alot of money like alot of other people, ESPECIALLY when you're an obsessive compulsive otaku. If you are like me, and alot of people are, and you like LOOOOOTS of different anime, you want to buy the ones you can. Anime is expensive. Manga isnt, but dvds of nearly everything are. I hardly even get to buy anime cos I can get about 2-3 manga for the same price and usually go an do that. The anime I see is courtesy of what I DO have, what my friends have, what I see at conventions and what I have downloaded. I really want to buy the dvds I what I have downloaded (I dont anymore in case people wanna behead me now) but because I need to divide all my money between these manga and that plushie and this anime convention coming up, it can get very hard. It's...a neverending argument, I know. So you can stick with rentals I guess if you wanna see the sub (which you should...*pokes evil dubs with pointy stick*)...although around here you cant rent any anime except crap like Pokemon although I'm pretty sure you can on the 'net... OR you can always try to find an anime club and join that...see if any members own dvds you wanna watch, etc... |
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Steventheeunuch
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1. Why not? It's obvious the creator has no beefs because he entered into the production knowing it was probably going to have some kind of audio adaptation, so why shouldn't I watch what I prefer? 2. Netflix (if you are in the US) is your pal. |
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Kazuki-san
Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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We pay some of the, if not the lowest prices per episode of anime in the world. You speak of rationalizing, when that's what you're doing. "I want it for free, I don't want to wait, I should be able to see it when it comes out in Japan, etc" If you want that, then go to Japan. Otherwise, you can most assuredly see Naruto for free on TV. You'll just have to put up with a version edited to some degree, and with all of the commercials. That's the price of watching something for "free." Except you don't even feel you should do that. Even the Japanese pay to watch anime on TV. Either 1. by watching the advertising or 2. by paying for satellite channels. Yet you seem to think you should be exempt from that.
Not eating them is different from stealing a case of peas because you think they are too expensive. In any case, I'm done arguing with you. We'll just have to agree to disagree.. again. |
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