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Sure the principal and vice principal are kind of caricature, but it is not like they don't represent common school administration. A memory I particularly have from my high school was being shamed by (a female) vice principal, for a USB I had lost been having porn on it. It is not like you could say everything about the ones in the show is evil, but they can totally be wrong on important things for the story.

After all, they tried to dismantle the literature club earlier in the show, because they thought it was being an impure club that only read smut. There is probably a good portion of older people that think that would be right, so I think it is fair for them to be portrayed as so unappealing and out of touch in holding old ideas. Would it have been better to portray them looking more reasonable?

Clematis wrote:

.Their vision is engulfed by the gross injustice that is going on, and they unfortunately opted for the simplest and, in their eyes, likely the only effective solution, given their knowledge that the school intended to use their friends as scapegoats irregardless of their own teacher explaining the situation and accepting responsibility.

It would be one thing if I thought that this was what the show was going for, but I'm almost certain that the show views the girls action as entirely positive and will reward them for their "bravery".

Their effectiveness of their plan is also pretty terrible. It instantly fails if the principal believes their threat and calls the police, or if the principal calls their bluff and just walks in and tells them to go home, or if the principal says that he accepts the demands to defuse the situation and then just walks back on his word. The plan only works on the assumption that a group of students can take over the school anytime using the threat of violence.

Gina Szanboti wrote:

I'm sorry, but Hongo is every bit as much of a creeper as creepy cram school kid. I don't foresee her being redeemed in my eyes before this is over.

I don't disagree with you.

Dusky Predator wrote:

Even though Rebecca said that Kazusa is a good kid, still needs to be said that she was kind of in the wrong in the episode when she was practically trying to pressure Izumi into something he was not yet comfortable with.

So when I first read this I thought, "Hey, I mentioned that!" and then I looked at the review and realized that I left an entire paragraph I'd been meaning to write out. Embarassed

So much for outlines and notes...

But yes, she's absolutely in the wrong there, and it's part of (in my opinion) her conflation of love, sex, and ownership. If she sleeps with Izumi before Niina does, I suspect Kazusa feels like he'll be "hers" and Niina can't take him from her. It's not so much that she's desperate to have sex with him and more that she's operating under the dual assumptions that she's supposed to because they're dating and that it will somehow irrevocably bind them together as a couple. And it's totally ignoring Izumi's stated feelings, which just adds to the wrongness. I don't think that puts her on the same level as Hongo and I think she'll eventually mature out of it, but that doesn't mean she's any less wrong in the moment.

Animegomaniac wrote:

Any resemblance between reality and Okada's story is tenuous at best and most likely self serving for the story over everything else. I mostly gave up on any sort of "naturalism" in this story when Hongo was on top of Milo but when she pulled out his penis, he had no erection at all. There's self control and then there's.... no. I don't accept it to that level.

There is such a thing as not being attracted to someone or just plain being surprised enough that you don't get a 'reaction' but I guess just because she's a high school girl on top of him he's supposed to be all up for it? I've never had someone I didn't want to try to 69 me out of nowhere, so I can't speak for experience, but she wasn't even touching him nor was he touching her on that scene - she just got up and unzipped his pants. It feels perfectly natural to me that he didn't have an erection and very childish of Hongo to think that he would've

Episode 11 was a wild ride. I loved Sonezaki’s line that society expects a “moderate amount of sexual activity” from teens and how unfair that is. I felt sad for Momo, but she definitely asked the wrong person that question. I wonder how Niina would answer? Speaking of Niina, that punch was so satisfying! Kazusa went from her most mature moment, to being pushy and childish, yet I still felt bad for her. I don’t feel bad for Hongo; the quicker she gets over Milo-sensei, the better!

And Milo-sensei finally does the right thing and takes a brave—if not entirely truthful—stand, only to get kidnapped! (Yes, I know he was lying to protect Hongo as much as himself. It was probably the best way to relay the information, given the circumstances). But Milo-sensei isn’t entirely innocent, so I don’t mind that he’s facing some humiliation. His kidnapping was such a fun, out-of-the box twist that I don’t mind suspending my disbelief for it. But if they’re going in a fantasy direction, I hope the consequences won’t be so bad,. I’ll be sad if one of the girls were expelled.

killjoy_the wrote:

she just got up and unzipped his pants. It feels perfectly natural to me that he didn't have an erection and very childish of Hongo to think that he would've

Now that you spelled out how it happened, it makes a lot more sense. Boys are a bit more excitable at that age, but if the engine hasn't been on, a cold open ain't going to do it. Though that could quickly change, but her disappointment probably killed that chance.

Not the most disappointing finale for me this season but it's up there. I'll just throw this out there: Did Kazusa lie to Izumi about the thought of having sex with each other was weird? I thought she was fantasizing about it since the first episode and that final "it fit" wasn't out of relief or as a summation but out of smug satisfaction. She got hers and Momo and Niina can go do whatever.

It's fine to have an interest in sex but don't lie to your partner about it.

And going from love to lust for Izumi and Kazusa is good but going from lust to love for Izumi and Niina is bad... good thing Erika didn't mention her "friend" who had a relationship start that way? Oh Okada, Toradora was so good but since, you can't resist just getting in the way and the hand of the author is all over character decisions here.

In the end, Kazusa did as every "victorious childhood friend" did before her: nothing. Well earned ending for the... curse word removed. I just wanted ONE scene where she spelled out what she wanted from their relationship without allowing Izumi taking the lead... was I expecting too much from later Okada?

And then there's Momo... I know it's the same "fan blankship" from Toradora's Ami and Minori but why did she have to be so creepy about it? "Don't date anyone else ever!" while she caresses Niina obsessively. Great, from one abuser to another, the poor girl has no luck or free will.

And THEN there's Milo who opted to marry the woman who willingly left him tied up by 5 high school girls for the night. She came back the following day so you know she cares? Wait, she works there...

That "color tag" sequence was probably the most Mari Okada-esque piece of writing I've seen from her since the Wixoss movie, and I haven't decided yet whether I think that's a good thing or a bad thing. I certainly wasn't as disappointed by the finale as I imagine other people are going to be, as this is basically what I'm looking to see when I sit down to watch a melodrama (whether it's in the form of an anime or a Shonda Rhimes show).

Animegomaniac wrote:

Oh Okada, Toradora was so good but since, you can't resist just getting in the way and the hand of the author is all over character decisions here.

Okada didn't write Toradora, but she wrote this one.

BodaciousSpacePirate wrote:

That "color tag" sequence was probably the most Mari Okada-esque piece of writing I've seen from her since the Wixoss movie, and I haven't decided yet whether I think that's a good thing or a bad thing. I certainly wasn't as disappointed by the finale as I imagine other people are going to be, as this is basically what I'm looking to see when I sit down to watch a melodrama (whether it's in the form of an anime or a Shonda Rhimes show).

Well, personally, I wouldn't call WIxoss a work in her style. For me, it's still a multimedia franchise that only hired her as a screenwriter. Yes, there are her favorite tropes, like a controversial romantic line, suffering because of her naivety main girl, token lesbian? etc, but it can still be found in any other all-female anime.

@Animegomaniac Lol, welcome to the Mary Okada Victims Club. First you suffer, then argue, and then become her fan. Honestly, Ami x Minori has always been a fan speculation based on the fact that adaptation gives more room to study their relationship. In our situation, Momo is canonical lesbian and has canonical feelings for Niina. Yes, I also found this moment quite weird, but it does not annoy me, since personally I see it as her catharsis after all the experience and awareness of own sexuality.

Quote:

Where this leaves Momo feels less certain, but she and Niina appear to be together at least as friends in the epilogue.

Thanks for the neutral attitude. I bet that if it weren’t you who wrote the review, then this intentionally (?) ambiguous scene would be immediately interpreted as a hint that they almost got married to each other, lol. Well, whether they are friends or a couple, this is practically not important. I think that both of them gained important experience and are happy at the end of the show, which is most important.

Animegomaniac wrote:

Not the most disappointing finale for me this season but it's up there. I'll just throw this out there: Did Kazusa lie to Izumi about the thought of having sex with each other was weird? I thought she was fantasizing about it since the first episode and that final "it fit" wasn't out of relief or as a summation but out of smug satisfaction. She got hers and Momo and Niina can go do whatever.

It's fine to have an interest in sex but don't lie to your partner about it.

I don't think Kazusa lied, she has mostly been confused over her feelings, expectations, and how she needs to hold Izumi's love. It did have her in the previous episode try and pressure Izumi into sex, but learning here that he is just as confused allowed her to decide that they can just take things at their pace.

Animegomaniac wrote:

In the end, Kazusa did as every "victorious childhood friend" did before her: nothing. Well earned ending for the... curse word removed. I just wanted ONE scene where she spelled out what she wanted from their relationship without allowing Izumi taking the lead... was I expecting too much from later Okada?

Izumi has been the one taking the lead in their relationship? Sure Izumi did the confession, but they have been about the same in trying to vocalize what they want, with them both saying that they have confused feelings but want to work on t anyway.

Animegomaniac wrote:

And then there's Momo... I know it's the same "fan blankship" from Toradora's Ami and Minori but why did she have to be so creepy about it? "Don't date anyone else ever!" while she caresses Niina obsessively. Great, from one abuser to another, the poor girl has no luck or free will.

Momo has mostly been the responsible and fair with everyone's feelings, and having them bottled up she exploded and said some pretty shitty things. Not that any of it was right to try and control who Niina could date, but also still wrong that Momo expect something like that, especially considering the guy she had to deal with. What Momo got was Niina saying that she is confused over how she should respond, but that she wants to keep Momo's friendship. My interpretation was that Momo could accept that rejection, and have some sense of moving forward.

Although, I would love a Momo series, her being able to still be friends with her first crush, being able to maybe come out to others, and be able to explore her options. She has the main character's friend vibe, with her own personality, and gone through a discovery of her sexuality that doesn't feel gimmicky.

Animegomaniac wrote:

And THEN there's Milo who opted to marry the woman who willingly left him tied up by 5 high school girls for the night. She came back the following day so you know she cares? Wait, she works there...

To me, it kind of felt like their on a similar page with things, where after the initial shock there was probably not any real risk. Kind of like she could trust that he deal with the situation, which he kind of did. On Milo's end, him being able to be a teacher to have them all solve their problems in a good way, was kind of the push that I think gave him confidence to actually pursue her. Since he had been kind of been keeping himself isolated, but admitting that he was not above and separated from all these relationship issues, he must have got the guts to date her after they had chemistry.

Animegomaniac wrote:

Not the most disappointing finale for me this season but it's up there. I'll just throw this out there: Did Kazusa lie to Izumi about the thought of having sex with each other was weird? I thought she was fantasizing about it since the first episode and that final "it fit" wasn't out of relief or as a summation but out of smug satisfaction. She got hers and Momo and Niina can go do whatever.

It's fine to have an interest in sex but don't lie to your partner about it.

And going from love to lust for Izumi and Kazusa is good but going from lust to love for Izumi and Niina is bad... good thing Erika didn't mention her "friend" who had a relationship start that way? Oh Okada, Toradora was so good but since, you can't resist just getting in the way and the hand of the author is all over character decisions here.

In the end, Kazusa did as every "victorious childhood friend" did before her: nothing. Well earned ending for the... curse word removed. I just wanted ONE scene where she spelled out what she wanted from their relationship without allowing Izumi taking the lead... was I expecting too much from later Okada?

And then there's Momo... I know it's the same "fan blankship" from Toradora's Ami and Minori but why did she have to be so creepy about it? "Don't date anyone else ever!" while she caresses Niina obsessively. Great, from one abuser to another, the poor girl has no luck or free will.

And THEN there's Milo who opted to marry the woman who willingly left him tied up by 5 high school girls for the night. She came back the following day so you know she cares? Wait, she works there...

I think you did a better job of dissecting the finale than Rebecca did, so I will respond to you instead of her. I'll take it piecemeal...

Quote:

Did Kazusa lie to Izumi about the thought of having sex with each other was weird? I thought she was fantasizing about it since the first episode and that final "it fit" wasn't out of relief or as a summation but out of smug satisfaction. She got hers and Momo and Niina can go do whatever.

I don't believe so. Paradoxical as is seems, it's possible to be strongly attracted to something and feel revulsion to it at the same time. The scene in the first episode, after Kazusa runs out of Izumi's bedroom, the whole frantic dash which ends with the train and her screaming "It will never fit!" In that moment she is completely weirded out by the idea of sex with Izumi despite her devotion to him. She'd heard other girls whispering about the possibility of taking him as a partner, and she does not feel that she has the je nais sais quoi* to compete. What she wants more than anything is for things to continue between Izumi and herself just as they always have even though intellectually she knows that this is impossible.

Thus her assertion about keeping going as close friends and if S.E.X, happens later then it happens. And as the last scene shows us, it does happen. Given everything which transpired I believe she's entitled to a bit of smugness.

Quote:

And then there's Momo... I know it's the same "fan blankship" from Toradora's Ami and Minori but why did she have to be so creepy about it? "Don't date anyone else ever!" while she caresses Niina obsessively. Great, from one abuser to another, the poor girl has no luck or free will.

I call this the "Citrus Effect": It's not really abusive behavior when it occurs between two people who are the same gender.

Quote:

And THEN there's Milo who opted to marry the woman who willingly left him tied up by 5 high school girls for the night. She came back the following day so you know she cares? Wait, she works there...

You notice that she didn't actually get interested in him until she saw him tied up? Um...I think I will refrain from further speculation on their married life and end this right there.

* French, literally "I don't know what". figuratively used to refer to any unquantifiable ability or attribute.

I see some posters had rather odd takeaways from this final episode.
I never had an abuser vibe with Momo, and I'm not sure if I missed the part of 'obsessive caressing' or is this referring to the hug she gave to Niina? Would need to rewatch the scenes.

Saying that Milo's fancy 'willingly left him tied up' is really stretching it - he was kidnapped by a bunch of high school girls, not Islam terrorists. Was she supposed to call the cops, set up a tent and parade up and down with 'Set Milo sensei free!' boards? Or secretly break in and knock 'em out one by one? She just didn't take the girls seriously, as did none of the other teachers, because they must have trusted that Milo could handle the situation - or they just cba on a day off - and because they didn't think the girls would actually hurt him to begin. On a side note, she didn't NEED to come back the next day 'for work' because it was the weekend.
Besides, we actually don't see enough of her interaction with Milo to be able to accurately assess what she thought of him up to then, but clearly things took a turn for the better and Milo has won her affection.

I liked the show altogether, even if it ended a bit abruptly. I actually find that the one who had to do the least (initially) was Sonezaki, because she hit a true jackpot of a guy, one who had liked her even before her 'transformation'. However his influence helped her grow a lot, possibly the most from the entire cast of characters.

The color tag was so ridiculously dumb. Yet another show where the last 1/3 or so of the series was so much worse than the first 2/3. Not the worst Okada series, but definitely nowhere near the level of Nagi no Asukara and AnoHana.

Glad that they at least did show the gyaru smiling with her infant and boyfriend at the end, though having Sonezaki see them in person rather than just a cellphone pic would have been more meaningful.

Megiddo wrote:

The color tag was so ridiculously dumb. Yet another show where the last 1/3 or so of the series was so much worse than the first 2/3. Not the worst Okada series, but definitely nowhere near the level of Nagi no Asukara and AnoHana.

Glad that they at least did show the gyaru smiling with her infant and boyfriend at the end, though having Sonezaki see them in person rather than just a cellphone pic would have been more meaningful.

Yup. I just hate it when stories explain their metaphors this meticulously.

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