Forum

Zac wrote:

Richard J. wrote:

Obviously you liked the rant or you wouldn't have picked it but you can't possibly have thought it was going to be a popular one.

Oh yeah, I knew that. It's just that I've posted rants that were actually boring and pretentious before and I didn't think this was one of them, so I was simply responding to the comments here.

And all the "sheesh million dollar words pretentious" stuff honestly makes me roll my eyes. Some people have a large vocabulary and know how to use it; not everyone is trying to "impress" you just because they use words you normally don't. ( I mean the figurative you, not the literal). That's a big pet peeve of mine.

Also Master Yeshua: Any other incredibly stale, played-out, totally unfunny Internet catchphrases you want to use in this thread, or are you all out now?

I concede that my accusation of pretention is probably fallacious and hypocritical (but you can see that just by reading this sentence Wink

). But seriously, I don't know the ranter personally, so there's no way I could prove that he is pretentious. Therefor my claim displays a level of impudence that could be called "pretentious." As far as my "incredible stale, played-out, totally unfunny Internet catchphrases" as you so elegantly put, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, ah how's that? Want anymore? Wink

Last edited by Moros on Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total

Last edited by MasterYeshua on Sat May 12, 2007 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total

Moros wrote:

MasterYeshua wrote:

Zac wrote:

Richard J. wrote:

Obviously you liked the rant or you wouldn't have picked it but you can't possibly have thought it was going to be a popular one.

Oh yeah, I knew that. It's just that I've posted rants that were actually boring and pretentious before and I didn't think this was one of them, so I was simply responding to the comments here.

And all the "sheesh million dollar words pretentious" stuff honestly makes me roll my eyes. Some people have a large vocabulary and know how to use it; not everyone is trying to "impress" you just because they use words you normally don't. ( I mean the figurative you, not the literal). That's a big pet peeve of mine.

Also Master Yeshua: Any other incredibly stale, played-out, totally unfunny Internet catchphrases you want to use in this thread, or are you all out now?

I concede that my accusation of pretention is probably fallacious and hypocritical (but you can see that just by reading this sentence Wink

). But seriously, I don't know the ranter personally, so there's no way I could prove that he is pretentious. Therefor my claim displays a level of impudence that could be called "pretentious." As far as my "incredible stale, played-out, totally unfunny Internet catchphrases" as you so elegantly put, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU,DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU,DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU,DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, DESU, ah how's that? Want anymore? Wink

Is that Knives in your Avatar? I just realised.

And, um, what does "DESU" mean? I could look it up but I'd rather hear it from you. Obviously, it comes from a time long ago in a galaxy far, far away, but that could be my imagination......

It is indeed the infamous villian Knives from arguably the greatest anime ever created, Trigun. As far as DESU is concerned, go to YouTube and look it up.

Hey, Daniel Thompson, the ranter, here again.

SakechanBD wrote:

[
I realize that it's supposed to be funny, and there is supposed to be a suspension of disbelief, but from a psychological standpoint, I don't see how anyone could will themselves to fantasize, even more a moment, that their fellow classmates are anything but their classmates. If you sit next to someone all year round, ad they come in the next day as the next Princess, no matter how badly you want to pretend they're sweet, gentle girls, there has to be some part of you that sees the original person under the dresses and wigs, or at least knows intellectually that you are still seeing your friend.

The fact that these men are so easily willing to suspend their skepticism, disbelief, or what have you, goes against human nature. *Especially* since they recognize the original identity of the boys.

Given some of the things I've read in forums to this point I wonder if I haven't royally confused people for including too many things that I wanted to say in my rant. Most of the focus has been on what I called the "heart of my rant" - that is, that it's a little disappointing to me given the relative frequency of trans-characters in anime that there aren't a few more well-written and realistic characters. I'm glad though that SakechanBD, who I gather is Ms. Dong herself (correct me if I'm wrong), has gotten to put in her two cents about the way that I began the rant referencing her.

Though I never intended to rant much on "society's confusion over LGBT relations" (that would have gotten a little bit away from relating to anime), I would like to say something in the forums about what SakechanBD has written here. I hope to give her at least some explanation as to why I believe that these statements and those I refer to in my rant from Shelf Life illustrate little understanding of those who are attracted to the transgendered.

Two questions which I think we ought never assume that we know the answer to in any individual case are, "In what way is a transgender male and in what ways female?" and "What about a transgender is someone else attracted to?"

Now I stress again that I've never seen Princess Princess but the psychology which you find implausible I think would not seem so if we ask these questions. If we can agree that there is more to being female than possessing female genitalia than it is quite possible that "the boy who was sitting next to you in class the day before" was already in many relevant ways, female. He may, for instance have a stereotypically feminine demeanor, ie he may be soft-spoken, demure, non-confrontational, etc, etc. He may tend to assume the stereotypically (don't flip out on me here) feminine roles by acting submissive, deferential, or nurturing to others. And he may (and I'm presuming this is all Princess Princess focuses on though it's not unimportant) have feminine features.

If such a person were to don a dress and exagerrate their natural tendencies I personally believe that except for the genitalia they would be for all intents and purposes women, with relations to men much as women have them. Your objection as to the implausibility of this I think is that that is after all a big exception. Without question that would be too much of a hurdle to overcome by virtually any high school boys here in the States and in most places. The potential sexual act is of enormous significance and especially so for boys of that age. Nevertheless, the sort of mentality that Princess Princess describes is seen in countless places. In prison, as many know, the strong urge for sexual activity leads strict heterosexuals to forcibly feminize other inmates. More relevent I think than that even was the penchant seen in many old films for servicemen in either of the World Wars to put on the occasional "folly" or show where some assumed female roles. Yes, there was an element of comedy in this exercise, but an element too I think of sexuality which cannot be dismissed. It was done further, in an environment not forever removed from female society, but where male relationships had become exceedingly close and the differentiation among their personalities became exceedingly important in their relations with one another.

I agree with you that it is infinitely more important for an anime to plausibly represent human emotion than the laws of science or anything else for that matter, but in this case if I may humbly speculate I think that you've simply not had occasion to observe this kind of relationship. Princess Princess may in fact have its failings, but I don't outright reject the mentality which it alludes to from what I know of its premise. If the classmates of the Princesses need someone to reenforce their own masculinity by acting as the gentle submissive or even simply to have a pretty face be the one to cheer "Go! Fight!" from the stands I can understand that and would call that a pretty heterosexual impulse. I do not contend that a great many of us cannot overcome an aversion to sexual contact with given physical features or certain genitalia no matter the compatability across other dimensions, but that some can I do know.

MasterYeshua wrote:

DESU x 88, ah how's that? Want anymore? Wink

Desugiru!

Jerseymilk wrote:

I believe the big issue with that particular adaptation was that the producers assured the author Le Guin that they would stay true to her novel when asking for the rights. Then they turn around and make the main character Ged, a very blond, very white looking boy. I know that in the story, Ged's ethnicity and skin colour is not white, but more like a Native American. Le Guin created him as dark-skinned because it was meant to be a very important statement by her concerning civil rights and colour at the time she wrote the stories. Basically, it was a significant aspect of the books and one that she felt very strongly and protective about keeping. So it's where a lot of the controversy and hate by fans of the Earthsea series comes from.

Well, that certainly explains a lot of the anger. I can see why both the author and her fans would be bothered as the character's ethnicity being changed affects an important message of the books, but at the same time I can see why Sci-Fi probably did it. The whole plot point of Ged spoiler[summoning that evil spirit which turns out to be his own dark side] might have seemed potentially offensive.

Also, the change could have resulted from nothing more or less than an inability to find a suitable ethnic actor for the role. Sci-Fi probably should have taken the time to explain their actions and avoided the backlash.

wynden wrote:

And don't be confused about the definition of prejudice; any time you count yourself superior to another - even, for example, in purity and proximity to Heaven - you are inadvertently committing a prejudice. No one's perfect, but if we try to be we might end up at half decent. And my theory is, a lot happier. I'd like to ask everyone in the world to try once in their lives to let everyone else seek happiness in any way they choose - provided it doesn't encroach on another's welfare in a manner which is inescapable - without judgment or rebuke. Just to see what it's like.

No offense, but I think your take on prejudice needs some minor fine-tuning. There are quantifiable, narrowly distinctive differences that make individual human beings "superior" and "inferior" to each other. You can measure things like a person's intelligence, physical strength, eyesight, etc. and our entire society is based on deferring to the authority and/or knowledge of others who we acknowledge to be in some manner "superior" to us.

Prejudice comes from believing oneself "superior" based on typically unquantifiable and broad reasons, like being of a particular race or religion. Prejudiced people usually believe that they are closer to perfection or are perfect and hate those who are "inferior."

In other words, there are rational and completely socially acceptable reasons to think you're "superior" to someone else. While we are all the same species, and thus "equal" on some level, we all have different strengths and weaknesses and recognizing those doesn't make a person prejudiced. If anything, it makes a person observant.

Take knowledge of Japanese VAs. Generally speaking, I'm clearly inferior to anyone who watches the Japanese dub primarily because I'm an English dub fan. The reverse is also true in terms of knowledge of English VAs. Generally speaking, I'm superior to many Japanse dub watchers if the test is of knowledge of English VAs. While a person can be prejudiced towards one fan base or the other, the acknowledgement of possessing a superior working knowledge of either is not itself prejudice.

Well, this is all just my opinion anyway, so agree or disagree.

I thought Ged had light skin and his best friend from Roke had dark skin. In the mini-series his friend (can't recall his name) was portrayed by a fat white guy, which I found rather strange. Confused

I'm just posting to say thumbs up to the guy in the first message in this week's "Answerman". I wish more people felt that way about fanservice (I don't mean offense to those who like it, but I believe it be very inappropriate). I wish people didn't feel like they need to drop sexual content into their entertainment to make it good. I know it sells, but that doesn't make it right. For me, all it does is turn me off to a series. I love it so, so much more when it modest and clean.

So anyway, good job speaking up! Wink

Quote:

If we can agree that there is more to being female than possessing female genitalia than it is quite possible that "the boy who was sitting next to you in class the day before" was already in many relevant ways, female. He may, for instance have a stereotypically feminine demeanor, ie he may be soft-spoken, demure, non-confrontational, etc, etc. He may tend to assume the stereotypically (don't flip out on me here) feminine roles by acting submissive, deferential, or nurturing to others. And he may (and I'm presuming this is all Princess Princess focuses on though it's not unimportant) have feminine features.

Bull, don't be such an essentialist. Gender is artificial crap we'd be so much better off without. You associate male heterosexuality with a liking for submissiveness, this is the reason I don't read much yaoi, it fetishizes patriarchal dominance of women, the only "difference" being that a man is in the submissive role.

I want to say more on the subject but it takes a lot of effort to articulate my thoughts.

I want to make clear I am not homophobic, I'm pan myself, I am objecting to the dominance and submission crap in a lot of interactions between individuals regardless of sex, also I will happily read yaoi that does not do this whole dom-sub thing. Indeed I am offput from a lot of anime that features friendships with possessive elements.

Last edited by Moros on Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total

Hmm...I don't know why the ranter is getting so much criticism for his writing style, in all honesty. The subject that he chose is not one that should be taken too lightly. I found his writing style quite fitting for his chosen subject. Now, if he were ranting about catgirls or loli, maybe not...

I also found myself respecting the author of the rant a lot more after reading his defense and responses to the posters here on the board. It's nice to meet a person who could write well in both formats. I love your style of conceding ground to your opponents before differentiating yourself, it's an awesome strategy that I love using in debates and discussions too. Kudos. ^_^

Moros wrote:

And I DID look up DESU. One word - disturbing (with the deluxe version being even worse).

That's just the meme, though. The actual 'desu' is simply a Japanese word that functions like a verb, though it really has no specific meaning (my sensei normally says the closest you can come to a meaning would be 'is', but even then it isn't absolute).

truemakale wrote:

. All I was really pining for was one Japanese cartoon that featured a leading trans-character that I, personally, could admire. Too much?

Kazuki/GetBackers? Because of the style of his attack (thread) he was reared to be pretty feminine, but pretty much everyone respects him (Because he can kick pretty much everyone's asses).

Hotohori was often mistaken for a gal bit was very capable as a swordsman & an emperor.

Mille Fuelle/Sorcerer Hunters is as skilled as a Haz Knight as he is pretty (& swings both ways)

And I for one wouldn't mind more tolerance toward everyone else because then maybe more of us gals wouldn't have to deal with all the stupid stuff we deal with on a regular basis. My daughter was born in 1990, but things she's been told-girls can't play baseball. If you play with the boys & get hurt, it's your own fault because the boys play rough (when my little "tomboy" who never played with dolls-she liked hot wheels-usually had no trouble keeping up with boys. I think anyone dragged behind a bike would have trouble keeping up) But as long as everyone-male or female-makes jokes about "bending over in Hillcrest" it shows people don't "get it"

And for all those reacting to the rant, here's some of the key points that probably jumped up in the ranter's face--

[quote]Even as dramariffic and LJ-able high school life can get, it doesn't compare to what Japan would lead you to believe happens in their all-male schools. Maybe I've been misled with my public school upbringing, or the stories I heard in college from all my friends and their fancy-pants East Coast private schools, but I've never known single sex schools to hold practices akin to single sex rat cages.

For those not in the know, if you have a cage full of female rats, sometimes, when they're in heat, one will simulate a male and have mock sex with the other females. According to Princess Princess, Media Blaster's newest BL title, prestigious, desperate all-male schools in Japan will do a similar thing, giving new meaning to the term “old boys club.” [quote]

By the way, not just rats. I used to watch the dominent (female) cat in the house regularly mount our male cat, biting his neck which I took for a domination move to keep her spot as top cat in the house, but maybe I'm wrong. Clamp compared it to birds in their boys' school edition of Legal Drug.

And it seems many guys in prison engaging in homosexual behavior son't consider themselves homosexual, just as needing a release

Quote:

Now, creative as this story may be, it inspires many questions. For example, why are all these boys so inspired by their cross-dressing classmates? Are they not bothered by the fact that, under that lacey dress and those cotton panties… lies a penis waiting to strike? If they are aroused by these Princesses, would that technically make them ragingly gay, especially knowing that they're actually men? As viewers, are we supposed to be amused by this school's secret, or should we be appalled?

Frankly, I'm a little disturbed by this show. Considering the vaguely homoerotic nature of the series, I would assume that the target audience is primarily women who also happen to like yaoi and shonen ai. However, it was to the best of my understanding that the appeal of shonen ai was in seeing two men fall in love—not seeing a school full of men go gaga over a transvestite.

To be fair, it's not the boys dressing up as girls part that bothers me. When they do it as an extracurricular job to inspire the students at an all-male school, rather than working in the dining hall, then yes, it's a bit suspect."

So what stuck me about this review was was the constant return to the idea of using boys dressed as girls as incentive for their schoolmates disturbing to the reviewer. Why does this premise so disturb the reviewer, she seems to use it as the entire reason to dislike the title?

When one watches all 4 of the ep on the first disc, one can see in the 2nd ep the Princesses go to change in front of the home ec club that makes their costumes the princesses are stopped with a "please don't ruin our fantasy" & directed to change in another room. The boys are ftreated special whether they are in drag or not "Please-one smile to help me make it thru the day" When everyone's going home for summer break, the Princesses are horrified at the thought the boys are taking photos of them home where others can see, but one of the characters points out that's the fantasy again--the boys going home might be dumped by or fight with their real girlfriends at home, but the princesses will always be faithful because they aren't real. Just like guys who buy porn don't stand a chance with the gals in it so why do they buy it. Overall, the distate expressed for Princess Princess in the review seems to have more to do with the idea of cross-dressing as yaoi than the whole premise of the title. What situation comedy really ever aspires to greatness? They are supposed to make us laugh. And if one is uncomfortable with female impersonators(which have a decent aufience), then one won't be open to watch this title which has more to do with "What would you do for a buck/yen?" And like in the Chunin exams in Naruto, the Princess boys have to all do it or they don't get paid so the 2 who, for their own reasons, need the money/can't go home are regularly at odds with the "red-blooded" boy who doesn't want to do it & could care less about the money.

There were others back on the thread discussing the review that pointed out many of the plot holes Ms Dong found in the title were explained. Just as with Gakuen Heaven which the review picked apart for "plot holes" that were explained in the disc.

A glass is half full or half empty. To slam a title because one is uncomfortable with the premise is wrong. With the number of times Ms Dong attacked the premise, there is no other way to consider the review as other than discomfort with the idea of boys being used by the school administration to inspire the rest of the boys to excel

Gee, should I write off Chrono Crusade just because in one of the most dramatic parts on dvd 6 we get a blatant panty shot of Rosette(fighting Aion to try to recapture her brother)?

Moros wrote:

teh*darkness wrote:

I hope we can see more "rants" like this, except hopefully, they won't so fully explore the subject matter, as to leave something for the forums to discuss Smile

.

Ha, that just cheered me up in a way. A rant so good it left nothing for us to discuss! I do see how that could prevent some from mentioning it - why talk about something when someone else had voiced all that needs to be said.

Is that how it will be in the future? Rants so well written they leave no unanswered questions or viewpoints, so we simply won't need to talk about them? In a way I hope so, cause those are the rants I want to read.

Well, like I said, I hope future rants will leave something to discuss, while still being as well put together as this one was. I look forward to seeing the next winner. Though this particular rant did nothing for me, it was still an enjoyable read.

Moros wrote:

ikillchicken wrote:

That last sentence is just illogical. it may be relevant to Daniel Thompson, but Im NOT Daniel Thompson. You could maybe claim that it could have been interesting or something if i tried, but no matter how hard i "try" Its not gonna be relevant to me.

Why? Because you prefer to live in a closed world, never thinking anything new? You could have at least discussed it for once in your life.

After all, next week there will be a new rant, and a new topic to focus on. Can't you survive one week of transgenderism? Just one? Your steadfast refusal to even TRY indicates to me that you have no respect at all for the Rant or Daniel Thompson, and maybe little tolerance of transgender people.

Now, you shouldn't HAVE to answer if you don't want to, but then, why criticise the rant when you will not discuss the content and message it is trying to convey?

Look, all I ask is this: give it a fair go.

It isn't THAT hard to read, or at least get the gist of it. If you then feel you cannot say anything intelligent about its content, then please do not. What you should refrain from doing is refusing to address the points raised in the rant, all the while heaping criticism on Zac for making it this week's rant, AND lambasting those who actually like the rant and just want to have an Adult conversation (not the X-rated kind, the mature kind).

Oh, and ikillchicken, just because Yaoi/Yuri are more prevalent, doesn't automatically make them relate to ALL of Anime. It is like saying that since there are more Gazelles in the world than there are Kiwis, that means Gazelles live everywhere. If that's the kind of argument you put up, then I pity you.

Okay: Im getting pretty damn sick of you.

So far youve:
-Accused anyone who didn't like the rant of being a homophobe
-Suggested that anyone who doesnt want to "expand their horizons" and read about a topic they have no interest in is somehow in the wrong.
-Accuse anyone who isnt interested in the rant of not respecting the ranter or transgendered people
-Accuse anyone who isnt interested in the rant of being intollerant

its getting pretty damn obnoxious.

I did give it a chance. i read it and found it unintersting. Also, If i though the Rant sucked, Im gonna say so. I wouldnt say that Im owed a Rant, however i do read awnserman and expect that the Rant will be interesting. If I dont think it is, Ill point it out. If you so desperately wanna have "mature conversation" about the rant, how bout this: Quit bitching at people who didn't like the Rant and actually discuss the rant. No ones forcing you to respond to my comments. If you think theyre so unfounded then just ignore em. Hell, half the negative comments have only come from people defending their oppinions after you started accusing people who didn't like the rant of all kinds of stuff. Yet you somehow feel the need to explain to me any everyone how this Rant is some great gift from God and we must all bask in its glory.

Anyway, I've got better things to do then argue with someone whos only been insulting and offensive. I've thouroughly explained my points and arguement against the Rant. Evidently you cant handle someone criticizing your precious rant so for the sake of not spaming up this topic anymore, Im Done.

Forum - View topic
Hey, Answerman! [2007-05-11]

DRAGON BALL: Sparking! ZERO Producer Explains the Long Wait for More

Sherlock Hound Anime Series Review

Assassin's Creed Shadows Makes Great Use Of Its Two Protagonists

This Week in Anime - The House that Gainax Built

Your Anime Rankings - Best of Spring 2024, Jun 10-16

Ultraman: Rising Anime Movie Review

Cheering for Gunma: Narenare -Cheer for you!- Anime Producer Hayato Kanno

This Week in Anime - Is OEL Manga Really Manga?

The Horizon Volumes 1-3 Manhwa Review

Black Butler Manga Goes on Hiatus Before Heading to Climax

River's Edge Manga Review

New Projects Bring New Opportunities for Kinema Citrus Anime Studio

Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2007-05-11]

Forum

Forum - View topic
Hey, Answerman! [2007-05-11]