Forum - View topicINTEREST: Fact Check: Did Demon Slayer Really Outsell All of American Comics?
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kakugo complete
Posts: 71 |
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man I wonder why manga pro Zack Davisson said it did sell better then? https://twitter.com/ZackDavisson/status/1396884959562924032
He even works for Marvel too. Surely he has insider info. https://twitter.com/ZackDavisson/status/1397248986692702210 Last edited by kakugo complete on Wed May 26, 2021 6:10 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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ryanvamp
Posts: 419 |
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The answer is simple IMO: mainstream american comics suck for the most part and have been stagnant for years. Not only do you have the issue of the same characters being executed by too many different creators and living different versions of the same stories over and over again, but the fact that those creators aren't properly compensated and do not own the NEW characters/stuff they create for the big 2 doesn't exactly attract new, talented blood.
You can have very good/unique staff like Saga or Noir Comics like the ones Brubaker writes but without solid mainstream hits the impact mature/non superhero comics can achieve is minimal...just like there would not be a manga industry without the heavy hitters & anime adaptations. There's a ton more I could say but it's either preaching to the choir of people who already think like me...or people who disagree and there's no amount of facts that's going to change their minds. In the meantime, I do think we're witnessing the end of an era. |
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 2961 Location: Email for assistance only |
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Davisson is actually in this forum thread if you go back a page, but being hired freelance to work for Marvel on a particular project doesn't mean anyone has insider information about sales of properties. Those kinds of assumptions is how this stuff happens. |
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kakugo complete
Posts: 71 |
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How about we shift the conversation from "American comics are cucked, manga is based and right wing" to "both are largely left-leaning but one is better at being progressive than the other in a way that appeals to kids"
I'll be 100% honest; on one hand, yeah I was definitely being a jerk by bringing that up the way I did. On the other hand, I really do wonder why someone with his US industry experience and no desire to say "the Comicsgate guy is right about one thing, at least" would say the headline was correct. At the very least it sounds like something very likely. Zack does also seem to also have information about manga sales, given he stated on Twditter six days ago he knew 100% that Berserk was the best-selling Dark Horse comic of all time. Last edited by kakugo complete on Wed May 26, 2021 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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animefan57892
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I think the comparison would be reasonable if it is Demon Slayer sales figures in US/Japan versus All of American Comics in US/Japan.
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kakugo complete
Posts: 71 |
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Do you have a direct source to him wanting to end DB earlier, or only bringing back Goku because of fans? |
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 2961 Location: Email for assistance only |
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The Berserk info isn't insider stuff at all; Carl Horn of Dark Horse has talked extensively about it publicly. It's old news, just some people are likely hearing it for the first time because it's being discussed again because Miura passed away. I see people do this, try to connect weird dots about X. Zack and I know each other and I mean no offense to the guy, but it's possible for a person to be wrong. Another buddy of mine who I have great respect for also retweeted the original headline before all the errors were pointed out. Folks are wrong on the internet sometimes, which is why we bothered to lay out the data that's available. It could very easily turn out that KnY outsells all cape comics for 2020 in the U.S., but outselling the entire industry is a huge stretch based on misconstrued data right now. |
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kakugo complete
Posts: 71 |
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If Superman, Batman and Spiderman may have been beaten, what chance does other stuff have? I can't think of any US comic bigger than Marvel/DC stuff.
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Horsefellow
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To me it looks like he's complaining more about how the article complains about "woke" stuff in comics driving away fans rather than the actual fact of manga outselling American comics. Which, I mean, yeah, there's obviously a lot of factors in play here on why manga is selling better, but if people are seriously going to try to insist that doing things like killing off a popular character and replacing them with a new, more diverse version aimed at a different audience isn't going to dramatically affect sales then that's just denialism. And that kind of attitude doesn't really help comics. Companies are being explicitly told exactly why people are jumping ship and reading manga instead, but rather than adapt and try to placate the market, they just plant their feet and refuse to change. I suppose it's honorable for a captain to go down with the ship for some people, but some of of the takes I see from out of touch comic book industry folk really baffle me and can only be explained by them knowing what the problem is but being too prideful to admit it. |
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Scion Drake
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Well the Invincible comics have gotten a major sales boost since the cartoon. https://bleedingcool.com/comics/invincible-100000-graphic-novels-2021/ https://bleedingcool.com/comics/invincible-1-hits-2500-after-amazon-prime-video-series-debut/ Thats impressive for a comic long finished. |
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Egan Loo
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Lately, several U.S. graphic novels have outsold both Marvel/DC superhero comics and manga in the U.S. -- when you count both general bookstores and comic book stores. If you only look at stats from Diamond, you're only getting comic book stores, a shrinking pie slice. These days, the top-selling graphic novels in U.S. general and comic book stores combined are titles like Dog Man and the latest from Raina Telgemeier. https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/comics/article/79818-what-we-know-about-2018-graphic-novel-sales.html https://www.comicsbeat.com/bookscan-2019-analysis/ https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/comics/article/84755-2019-north-american-comics-sales-grow-to-1-21-billion.html Last edited by Egan Loo on Wed May 26, 2021 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor
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You could, I dunno, read the article you're posting in the thread of. Where it spells out that the false claims come from the exact mindset you're parroting here rather than any factual examination of the data. Claiming "a lot of factors at play" in order to then spout off nonsense doesn't help anyone, especially when it's very clear that the only reason these types of comicsgate idiots try to make up statistics is to push their regressive agendas. |
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kakugo complete
Posts: 71 |
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Alright, I will admit I was only thinking of mainstream stuff + hipster indies, not so much the little kid demographic. Still fascinating that the latter demographic is the only one that beat MHA in your second link though. Still highly doubt those books have the global success of manga. China has a gigantic population and they love manga, for example.
Is it really a radical right wing take that maybe there's a content & presentation-related reason that Citrus has more worldwide appeal than America Chavez? |
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AmpersandsUnited
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I don't see that "debunked" anywhere in this article. Perhaps you can specifically cite it? Are you referring to Deb Aoki's comments on why she thinks comics are doing poorly? She is one person. Her opinion are her own and not absolute. Obviously people who don't see that kind of stuff as an issue would not cite it as a problem. You obviously disagree on that, but the fact remains manga is dominating the market. Gerry Conway ranting that series like Nagatoro are sexist trash and manga creators need to be "taken to task" for their views seems to speak to me that maybe these so called "regressive agendas" might have a point here. A series about a 14 year old girl sexually harassing her sempai selling so well must mean something, after all. Maybe comic books should try something like that. Personally, it's interesting to me to see comments like "superhero comics are too focused on adult men" when a lot of adult men seem to be disagreeing with that notion and feel like comic books are no longer targeted towards them. I assume that's not referring to all the DC and Marvel books being put out by YA authors that are obviously aimed a younger, female demographic, nor all the books. Were books like America Chavez, Ms. Marvel, Mockingbird, Squirrel Girl, Moon Girl, Iron Heart, Runaways, and all those really aimed at adult men? Seems like a lot of adult men didn't find those series appealing. I guess people will see what they want in the end. Personally, I haven't read American comics in almost 15 years. Every time I see pages posted on social media they look so unappealing and are focusing on topics I have zero interest in. I'm an adult man, so I personally disagree with that comment. Manga is a lot more appealing to me. |
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kakugo complete
Posts: 71 |
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Deb IMO has a history of downplaying the amount of stuff made for an audience of girls and women (i.e. "Little Witch Academia is a rare example of something made for little girls" in a season with a lot of anime for little girls).
That said stuff like Squirrel Girl, FemThor or America Chavez definitely isn't as good as Aikatsu or Precure at appealing to girls. Precure even has themes you could consider "progressive", including an entire episode about a gender non-conforming boy, but executed in a far more wide-appeal manner. Hell, Steven Universe does this stuff far better than all the comics that fail one by one. Last edited by kakugo complete on Wed May 26, 2021 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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