Forum - View topicNEWS: Japan's Lack of Laws on Virtual Child Porn Criticized
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minakichan
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Miyazaki Tsutomu? When it comes to loli manga, I believe in the great Genshiken's Mandarame 2D-3D theory; people getting off to 3D girls really isn't that different from 2D, and if a person who likes a particular fetish in 3D girls and doesn't in 2D, quotequote "something is wrong." So in that sense, the titillation when a man watches human child pornography versus two-dimensional loli shouldn't be any different. That's not the issue. I think the issue is whether watching underage pornography is "bad" in the first place. If artists created digital paintings that looked exactly like 3D girls, the effect would be the same as normal pornography but no one would be "exploited." I agree that reading loli pornography can certain have an effect-- not necessarily that it turns people into Miyazaki Tsutomus, but perhaps that it calls Miyazaki Tsutomus into action. Some people will say that reading loli porn does absolutely nothing to a person, but I think these people are underestimating the power of art-- art MOVES people, that's its JOB. I'm not saying that we should ban loli porno, I'm saying there should be some cost-benefit analysis. If the amount of good, the amount of release that men enjoy from loli-- and if the amount of good that results if men use loli to satisfy their urges rather than act on them-- is greater than the amount of bad that occurs when pedophiles are spurred to action by loli, then we should keep it, as harsh and depressing as that sounds. |
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2DOtaku
Posts: 122 |
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Not just doujinshi. Don't forget that in some of the series you mentioned (at least, the two I'm familiar with - Evangelion and Lucky Star), the characters in question are sexualised to some extent in the anime itself, or at least, what some people might interpret as sexualisation. Certainly in the latter of those two, some of the material could be considered questionable (Konata's dad, anyone?). There's a lot more at stake here than just doujinshi. |
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Panda Man
 Posts: 257 Location: North Carolina |
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I doubt it will ever pass. Mostly because, you can't really tell the age of an anime or manga character. So if the Bio the writer/s release says 18, she/he is 18.
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angel_lover
 Posts: 645 Location: UK |
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Assuming that Dr. Quayle was correctly reported, then she was either badly informed or simply lying to put pressure on the Japanese. UK law (and I've got to be a little careful here, because Scotland and NI are potentially different from the rest of the UK) criminalises the possession of "indecent" photographic images and pseudo-photographic images of children under the age of 18, plus any image drawn, traced or derived in any way from an actual indecent photographic image of a child. A pseudo-photographic image is one that looks like a photograph, or that, to a child, would be indistinguishable from a photograph (the reason for this is that such images could be used for grooming). The threshold for indecency is very low, even a topless photo of a young female child taken by the child's own parents on a beach could be "indecent". Confusingly, David Hamilton photobooks are still openly on sale, and the BBFC continues to pass films containing even full-frontal images of naked children as long as they are in a non-sexualised context. In short, it's a mess. When it comes to cartoon-like images, it's currently legal to possess anything you like, but it is illegal to sell, distribute or import "obscene" images. The threshold for obscenity is generally much higher than for indecency - usually it's things like bestiality, scat, watersports, etc. However, proposals have been made earlier this year (but not heard of since) that would criminalise the possession of images of "child abuse", which is basically defined as a list of various things being done by or with someone who is or who appears to be a child under the age of 18. This would now specifically include drawings, but only if they were also "obscene". My assumption would be that courts would set the obscenity bar rather lower for things involving children (even drawn ones) than they would for adults, but this remains to be seen. Obscenity has a defence of artistic merit though, so if you can show something has serious artistic value then it's not obscene. In short, it's going to be an even bigger mess. Last edited by angel_lover on Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:56 am; edited 3 times in total |
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posterior_praiser
 Posts: 296 |
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THIS. I think that is a far more pressing issue than loli porn that may or may not encourage pedophilia. In the case of these models there is definitive exploitation of children, and it should stop. Period. THAT is where the real pedo bait lies. |
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R315r4z0r
 Posts: 717 |
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Wow... this just goes to show how people in politics do not understand any reasoning behind the rules and laws of a country.
I bet he thinks child porn is illegal because he thinks it is "gross." Child porn is illegal because it distinctly harms children. No more no less. What a moron. |
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Mune
Posts: 376 Location: Minnesota |
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Honestly, this is ridiculous. They're going after virtual porn for actions people do. If that were the case in every type of life, then Hollywood wouldn't exist anymore. They make movies on war, terrorism, rape, and even more. In that case it would lower violence if Hollywood stopped??? That's the principle, right?
So, why does it even matter? The poor guy didn't do anything wrong. He looked at a few pictures... Big deal. Now, if he would have done something to an actual person it would be different. It's kind of like a gun. If he shot it at home, at a picture of a fictional person. No big deal, since no one was hurt and it wasn't of anyone real(no it doesn't look like they were out to kill them). Compared to those that actually do kill or shooting a picture of an actual person. They are getting criticized for something just like that. I truly believe it's just a few people jealous of Japan. |
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Doctor Worm
Posts: 72 |
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Everyday a little boy named Hiro, Tom, or whoever.. a little girl name Anna, Yuki, or whoever.. is having nude photographs taken of them, being molested, or some other form of sexual exploitation. It could very well even be happening right now as I post this or as you read this message somewhere in the world.
A large amount of what UNICEF and the related can do is because of donations. The people who donate to them, I think, expect UNICEF to take the measures to do what they can to prevent as many real-life Annas, Hiros, Toms, Yukis, and other children from being sexual exploited, molested, etc. But hey who cares about that? THANK GOD some of that donation money is being spent to help make sure successful cartoon children like Pico, Chico, and the rest will finally have justice at last for their exploitation! I shed tears daily in honor of Rolo, random Digimon trainers, and other fictional young(ish) victims of fan fiction, doujinshi, fan art, etc. THANK GOD that if stuff like this passes and that case in Iowa is successful for the Prosecution it could also lead to laws and cases that allow people to get arrested and even put on death row possibly for all the innocent bystanders and such they killed in Grand Theft Auto games and the like. THANK GOD that hopefully people can recognize the sarcasm in this paragraph here. Once we start going after people for getting one particular type of fictional thing where do we stop before we're suddenly going after folks for getting all sorts of different fictional things? How can we possibly stop? |
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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And I hope that it is not some study that is comparing this to violent video games. The two are completely incomparable. The perversions are completely from two different places and wants and needs. And while everyone to some degree has violent thoughts of some sort from time to time. Be it from sports to vandalizing your bosses car, to picking a fight because your drunk, to just being a complete asshole who always acts on your primal drive. It is well understood that most everyone in the world has such tendencies. So it is no wonder fictional accounts of such acts are so popular. On the other hand not everyone, or even close to most of everyone fantasizes about having sex with toddlers. Like I said, it is a completely different perversion than violence. I also challenge any studies validity on the matter. Considering that any kind of study that uses a real scientific approach would be highly illegal. Unless of course it was held in a modern country that allowed adults to have sex with children. So unless it is held in one of those countries, I would hold the results highly in suspect. ____ As for this news I also find it kind of scary. I mean I do realize it is a very fine line to walk. The reason I am scared part is I can see them taking this too far. And I do agree the act of just drawing and reading virtual child porn taken just by itself, in fact harms no child. I also think that is somewhat of a two dimensional view of our world that the only thing this is used for is some "quality reading time". So on the other hand if it all disappeared tomorrow I don't even think I would blink. In short, I am on the fence on the drawing issue. |
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grgspunk
Posts: 136 |
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Honestly, as long as anime/manga/eroge/doujins remain as some of Japan's best-selling stuff, I highly doubt that they'll be able to pass this bill, as it involves banning a huge part of the otaku subculture. And I don't think they'll underestimate the Japanese otaku's spending power either. They may have no life, but the sheer amount of cash (that room alone has got to be at least worth $30,000) that they spend is actually the reason why lots of people are able to have jobs. I doubt that even the most conservative politicians in the Diet have actually forgotten that. |
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N15PCA
 Posts: 37 Location: San Tan Valley, AZ |
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The images aren't real. What part of not real that they just don't get.
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luisedgarf
Posts: 660 Location: Guadalajara, Mexico |
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But you should remember that Japan are NOT in a position for defending against such claims due to the fact that Japan was one of the countries who lost in WW2 and many countries (especialy the U.S.) pays lots of money just for keeping the Japanese "in line" with the rest of the Western countries. |
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Hexon.Arq
 Posts: 79 |
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The thing about these "problematic images" is that with enough practice, you or I or anyone could draw them on a napkin and get ourselves or somebody else in trouble. There is no difference between restricting these particular "problematic images" and restricting "problematic thoughts" conveyed through text; you're talking about ideas, and that's where all of this hullabaloo becomes dangerous.
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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I don't know what study that person spoke of, but these studies are relevant to the issue, though they focus on pornography in general. Milton Diamond is a well-known researcher in his field. Pornography, Rape and Sex Crimes in Japan The summary paragraph of the above: In sum, the concern that countries allowing pornography would show increased sex crime rates due to modeling or that adolescents in particular would be negatively vulnerable to and receptive to such models or the society would be otherwise adversely effected has not been vindicated. It is certainly clear from our data and analysis that a massive increase in available pornography in Japan has been correlated with a dramatic decrease in sexual crimes and most so among youngsters as perpetrators or victims. We have mentioned some possible influential factors. By the same author: The effects of Pornography: An International Perspective The summary paragraphs of the above: Sex abuse of any kind is deplorable and should be eliminated. Rape and sex crimes, like any criminal activities are blights on society which should be expunged. The question remains "How best to do this?" Most assuredly, focusing energy in the wrong direction, or taking actions just to placate victims, politicians or irate citizens will not solve the problem nor help. Nor will spreading myths or misinformation. Removing pornography from our midst will, according to the evidence, only hurt rather than help society. I think it is better to expend our energies in two directions. 1) Make better pornography so that preferred role models are portrayed and more segments of society can come to appreciate or at least understand and tolerate its value23; and 2) turn our research to other directions to eliminate or reduce the social ills of rape and other sex crimes. The best place to look is probably in the home during the first decade of life. But it is only by research that we can continue to understand how to most effectively meet this social challenge. Governments as well as the pornography industry itself would do well to finance and encourage such research. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Everybody has some kind of problem with Japan, whether it's the war, this, their hunting lifestyles that "supposedly" is cruel to animals, that's how their economy is, that's the way they do business.
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