Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Psycho-Pass 2
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qberr
 Posts: 62 |
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It's not the case with the Sibyl system.
Therefore Sibyl not giving a CC to itself does not undermine it, it is not a flaw, it was never an intended feature. And Sibyl knows it's not perfect anyways so what's even the point. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15516 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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X = judged as bad Y = Judgment of a persons It translates to it being able to judge anyone as being enforceable on every person it can judge. It does try and tackle it by making that the Y that can't be X is absorbed as part of it. It could actually do X to the Y if it wanted to, but what would give if found that it is X, how does it have the right to do Y in the first place?
This is not so much about saying that it is imperfect, but reasoning why you can still accept that imperfection. |
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qberr
Posts: 62 |
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X must be an action made on an Y Sibyl doesn't judge judgements, it judges singular humans. For the paradox to work it'd have to be some nonsense like "Sibyl can judge anyone" + "Sibyl can make people that nobody can judge" Both are apparently wrong, the second doesn't really have anything to do with what Sibyl is for. It's even worse since the one magically creating people who somehow can't be judged isn't Sibyl but manchild mc edgy.
Sibyl is basically like ancient rome's dictator, with the huge distinction of dictator only having around 3 months of time, whereas Sibyl became an irremovable crutch. It's Akane's conclusion at the end of s1, "Sibyl might be a bitch but it's our best option". |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15516 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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You are looking too much at words and not meaning behind words. X is the conclusive action to Y. X is the CC, the number that they see if someone should be enforced. Y is essentially how they make that number, which we know as various readings. Where the paradox comes in is that when one should be able say it is wrong (or X) it is not. So the system can continue to say that it is right it says that it can't be judged as bad. It kind of gets confusing, but the way it hides itself from the paradox is hiding that it need be judged in the first place. |
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qberr
Posts: 62 |
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Oh wow that makes no sense. We're still discussing wether the god paradox applies here, right? Just keep it simple. |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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Something tells me that Hope didn't like this episode. (spoiler[write clearly dammit!]). I actually charged in here to mount a defense of what PP2 has turned into but everything I came up with was a bit of weak tea in the face of Hope's barrage of derision. Oh, yeah. And Miku barfed again. Well, can a system that put a decisive and definite end to that girl's obnoxious machinations be all bad? I'm inclined to cut Sybil a bit of slack over that one. My only nit with the review is I am sure Mika was clapping out of hysterical fear. Hue be damned. She was in abject terror and would have said anything to survive. |
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ronri
 Posts: 84 |
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After the recent episode I completely lost hope. I really can't get past how stupidly they've characterized Tougane in the way that his behavior falls closer to being criminally asymptomatic (i.e. a psychopath) than one with a high Crime Coefficient (i.e. a person he's closer to having ASPD). There's bound to be a stupid twist there where he'll turn out to be CA that was somehow "turned black" to get a high CC.
I swear, I just really hope that Urobochi ignores the entirety of the "developments" and "twists" showcased in Season 2, with the movie acting as the sequel that Psycho-Pass deserved (what with blatant implication of Kougami's return and all). It would be downright hilarious if Mika is presented more positively in the movie so as to reflect her original depiction in season 1 of Psycho-Pass. |
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Yause
Posts: 97 |
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Kumugai only wrote two episodes of Terror in Resonance, so it's a bit of an unfair charge. Generally, script seems to have been an after thought, given that a) No one is credited for Series Composition b) Two of the four writers have no prior screenplay credits c) Another one (formerly a production runner) is a newbie who started with Attack on Titan
Well, it isn't so much the studio that benefits but rather the producers, directors (royalties on original properties), and writers (royalties on original properties). Where this type of writing is concerned, some major offenders are huge stars and not second-rate, fly-by-night contractors. They aren't inherently bad writers - indeed, these people are successful, and they have their pedigree and bank accounts (animators may not make much, but successful scriptwriters are rolling in dough. That's $2000 an episode plus royalties) to show for it. However, there's a perception that this stuff sells and that they're the best at knowing how to push their (mostly naive or simpleton) audience's buttons. So instead of honing the art of writing, it becomes the art of swaying fans through a combination of comfortable tropes, character archetypes, crazy plot twists, and sheer absurdity. We've seen this pattern time and again in entertainment industries around the world. |
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鏡
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The omnipotence paradox discussion is meant to draw out the fact that moral perfection is a nonsensical notion, which Mika as a character is being used to viscerally exemplify. It was hardly meaningless within the context of the series and especially the episode, now that Tougane and his Mother are firmly divorced from the ostensibly utilitarian ideals of the system. It's not that Akane knew the system was corrupt, but knew that the system was inhuman and inadequate. The point this season is making is that judgment calls of any kind require some kind of implicit morality (which Mika all throughout the beginning of this season refuses to make in faith that all morality is explicated in Sibyl), and when you're making the vast, sweeping calls that Sibyl does, the content of the implicit morality is expected to concurrently intensify. It's a pretty subtle and ironic use of characterization if you ask me.
The set up is for a collapse of this dichotomy between Tougane and Kamui at the hands of Akane, who I expect will soon recognize the full scale of the situation from both sides, realize that neither are concerned with "maintaining/vindicating/redeeming society" and do something to both expose the pure selfishness of Sibyl and arrest Kamui and his followers. The entire show so far has just been a slow buildup of thematic structure in a lot of fast-moving action-filled episodes. The discussion of the omnipotence paradox is where Akane discovers a way out of her mutual extortion of Sibyl, and the fact that the reviewer didn't mention that seems to disregard the point of pretty much the entire episode, if not a large portion of the show. |
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qberr
Posts: 62 |
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we've been over this
there's no paradox i also don't see much of a thematic structure, but that just might be the dumb events being too distracting |
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鏡
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So the omnipotence paradox doesn't exist? |
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qberr
Posts: 62 |
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It's something that is based upon a something having authority of both always being able to do X on every Y and the authority to be able to create an Y nothing can X (at least that's the presented intance of the paradox). Sibyl has the authority of always be able to CC people (well not really, but let's assume it does) but it has no business in creating CA (people that can't get CCd) they just exist. Frankenstein family tried once but it aparently went to shit along the way. It's actually only a paradox if both authorities are derived from the same trait, that is, omnipotence. It's omnipotent so it can make something that can't be lifted It's omnipotent so it can lift anything etc. It's some Umineko-tier paradox rape, makes the whatever's crow usage in ep2-3 seem appropriate. |
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鏡
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The discussion was never a question about Sibyl's omnipotence; it's framed around the paradox because Akane is realizing that the perfect system (IE the utilitarian perfection of Sibyl, not its moral vacuity which Akane has a problem with) is actually not even pragmatically perfect or morally bankrupt: the loss of omnipotence after creating the rock/altering the rock's weight after regaining omnipotence, is a metaphor for the necessity of non-ideological motivation in Sibyl. Not only is it not ideological, but the metaphor implies that it's antithetically opposed to the pretense: IE non-omnipotence is required to avoid the paradox, meaning something opposed to the clean utilitarian view which Sibyl tries to style itself as must be necessary for it to make any kind of judgment in the first place. Tougane as a character is representative of that necessity, and Mika's capture is symbolic of society and Akane's failure to realize it earlier. Akane realizes the necessity at the end of her monologue. |
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qberr
Posts: 62 |
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i'm really interested in knowing how many jumps you need to do to get to that interpretation from a 3 minutes scene of wrong sentences
Not trying to sound doubtful, i just don't see it. But then again after the first time Akane thinks the word "paradox" in the 3dcg part i kinda blanked out thinking "that's not how you paradox" so i might have gotten distracted. |
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CoreSignal
 Posts: 727 Location: California, USA |
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That scene with Mika maniacally laughing basically sums up how this season has turned out. I think Ubukata is secretly trying to tell us that even he can't believe how ridiculous things have become.
PP2 is still entertaining, but at this point, the show has gone off the rails. If Tougane is spoiler[a lab experiment to manufacture an asympomatic subject], then why didn't they just keep in the lab? I don't see why they would make him into an inspector. I have to say, I'm liking professor Saiga. I like how he's totally relaxed in the midst of all the crazy stuff happening.
@鏡, I agree with qberr. The omnipotence paradox doesn't work at all. Akane never regarded Sybil as perfect in the first place, see spoiler[the conversation between her and Sybil] in last ep of season 1 and omnipotence applies to knowledge, not morality. The paradox doesn't work because the initial premise is false. I see your point about the show having a thematic paradox, it's just not an omnipotent one. |
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