Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Scum's Wish
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KitKat1721
 Posts: 955 |
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I think the only aspect of the series that has disappointed me was the whole "Kanai and Akane engagement" resolution. I really liked the scenes leading up to it (especially that moment when he appears in her painting gallery of the mind), but I just can't really buy them rushing into a marriage. I like the implication of really getting to know each other honestly for the first time, but I would have been happier if they just decided to keep dating, but for real on Akane's end. I also wish Kanai got a little more development, but once he didn't really in episode 11, I figured there was no way he was going to in the finale.
Other than that, I still think this was my favorite show of the reason (even over Rakugo Shinjuu, which while fantastic, did not really grab me the same way the first season did). I loved how much development the female characters got, in a story about self worth and sexuality of all things. I loved the sweet little "thank you" Hanabi gave that boy, which shows how far she's come from believing, "There's nothing more revolting than the affection of someone you're completely disinterested in." I even loved the bittersweet ending with Hanabi and Mugi finally connecting but still deciding that, yes maybe they could have continued to date, but that its probably better for both of them that they work on themselves. Despite the hiccup with the teachers, this was my biggest surprise of the season. |
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rizuchan
 Posts: 976 Location: Kansas |
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I don't think I need to bother at this point explaining plot-related reasons that Akane and Kanai's marriage is an absolutely horrific thought, but when I got to thinking about it, I think what really bothered me about it is that Akane, of all people, is the only one of the main characters that got a happy sappy ending. She's the one intentionally terrible person in the show and... did it ever backfire for her? She got everything she wanted and then the unconditional love she never knew she wanted, and she has zero motivation to become a better person and even blatantly stated that she wasn't going to change. I mean, I'm normally all for preaching forgiveness and all that, but she never did anything to warrant that forgiveness.
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23888 |
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That's why earlier in this thread I wrote that in a way Akane represents a type of female wish fulfillment role. Let me be clear: that doesn't mean I think females want to be a horrible person like Akane who goes around playing sick, cruel emotional games with high school students. What I mean is that she embodies a certain notion of irresistible female power. Apparently, no man can resist her. Not only is Kanai completely devoted to her no matter what she does, but Mugi is the same way, albeit in a somewhat different form. And then on top of that she sails through everything without a scratch on her and apparently no regrets.
Akane's treatment in Scum's Wish comes dangerously close to embodying the tired "whore/Madonna" complex. The fallen woman who only needed to find the right man to make her change her wanton ways. The only reason I say "dangerously close" as opposed to "absolutely does" is the ambiguity over how much Akane has actually changed her behaviour. |
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zensunni
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I would say "quite faithful". I don't think it skipped much, if any, of the story, (though it has been a long time since I read the early chapters) and it covered the entire manga, start to finish. There are spots where there are minor differences in detail, but not really in story. (I know you said no spoilers, but I'm putting in an example of a spot that is in the anime... so not really a spoiler...) One difference is the way the flower scene with Akane and Hanabi was done in the anime and the manga. I personally preferred the anime version... There was more detail in the anime, believe it or not... There was also a difference in what was said, or in the translation... I would REALLY like to know if that was mistranslated by the CR or Anime Strike translators, or if the two versions were actually different! [in spoilers for those who don't want to know the difference] spoiler[In the manga, the last thing Akane says to Hanabi is "I don't want you to get taken by anyone else" which really didn't make any sense at ALL. In the anime, the equivalent line is something along the lines of, "Next time, don't let him get stolen away!"] In addition... spoiler[In the anime, that scene is framed better. It shows Hanabi kind of spacing out while the girls are talking about marriage and Kanai starts heading over to talk with her, but Akane stops him and goes over in his place. In the manga Akane just sort of shows up poking the flower in her face.] I viewed that scene as a combination of Akane both trying to make amends with Hanabi and, paradoxically, get one last dig in. However, it came across more like good-natured teasing than her earlier interactions with Hanabi. Kind of like an acknowledgement that, by marrying Kanai, she is becoming Hanabi's defacto big sister and she is there for advice if she is interested. (Fat chance of that, I know... Probably not the intent, but that is kind of how I saw it...) I didn't have a big problem with the whole marriage scenario. I think a big part of what is bothering a lot of people about the ending can be boiled down to one fairly simple thing: the mangaka is MUCH better at writing female characters than she is male characters and she doesn't devote NEARLY as much time or effort to the inner workings of the male characters in the story. However, I don't know that I have read a better depiction of the female perspective on the various issues in the story. It was a bit unclear to me whether the last episode was implying that Ecchan and her cousin, Sheepdog-kun, were an item now, or if, after the festival and cutting her hair so she looks more butch, she was willing to embrace her sexuality fully going forward. The fact that she publicly rebuffed the guy who was trying to ask Hanabi out, claiming her as her own, might suggest the later. (I hope so, because I really don't like to see stories where all it takes it "the right man" to "change" a lesbian. Yes, bisexuals exist, but I'd rather they be presented as bisexual first as opposed to being presented as really NOT liking men at ALL, except for that one guy...) I thought that the ending was, frankly, pretty amazing. You always expect the happy ending. Once the obstacles of their unrealistic first loves were removed, and it was clear that they had actually developed feelings for each other, it would have made sense for them to earnestly start dating. That works in a story. In real life, what Mugi did to Hanabi was a deal breaker. Could the two of them meet as sophomores in college at a party, strike up a conversation, and discover that their feelings are still there? Sure... But right now, it is better for them to move on, grow up some more, and look for real love elsewhere. It was a brave, and satisfying, ending for the mangaka to write. I applaud her for it! |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23888 |
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@ zensunni - the only thing I can think of with respect to what Akane says in the manga when she gives Hanabi the flower is that what she means by, spoiler["I don't want you to get taken by anyone else" is "I don't want somebody else to do what I did to you." In other words, she may not mean "taken by" in the sense of "claimed" but rather "to get fooled" by.] I have no idea if that's actually what she meant, but if it is, I actually prefer it to the anime which basically came across as sort of a cheap shot as somebody else pointed out.
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Dandylion
Posts: 68 |
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Aaahhh that's what I wanted to hear  "Faithful", with minor changes/cut here and there (which I really don't mind) and "completely" adapted !!!
Thank you very Much @Zensunni |
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rizuchan
Posts: 976 Location: Kansas |
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I see what you're saying, but I disagree. For a character to embody a "wish fulfillment" kind of role, they usually have to be relatable and (at least somewhat) likeable. Maybe the author might get something out of it but I think most people, women included, are going to find most of everything Akane does to be too deplorable to enjoy in her exploits. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23888 |
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I think your understanding of wish fulfillment is too limited. It ignores the appeal of the anti-hero for one thing. Criminal figures get glamourized all the time even though they do horrible things because (dudes, primarily) key into the wish fulfillment of power (being feared) and defying societal conventions. If you don't think there is such a thing as female wish fulfillment that revolves around having men be helplessly in love with you NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, I can't really help you.
I can assure you if Akane had been written by a straight male, she would have been punished in some way. |
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Lifesongsoa
Posts: 34 |
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I loved the scene with Akane poking a flower at Hanabi. I'd argue that it was both a cheap shot and a genuine moment of encouragement. Something Akane could only offer to someone who knew both sides of her personality. It was an expression new to her that she had only recently realized was both possible and open to her after Kanai's acceptance and encouragement.
There is an oddity with the character's of Scum's Wish, but I think it's better described by how many introspective personalities it has versus saying it's female wish fulfillment. I can relate with Akane pretty easily. Not her specific scenario,(I can honestly say that I've never tried being a nymphomaniac! Go me!) but the way she tries to silence her own ego and ends up disgusted with a world that has no place for her and then ultimately treats people like she expects to eventually be treated is me in my early 20s to a T. The way she places her hope in human potential confirmed how similar Akane's personality is to how I thought and to some degree still think. My personality didn't really change that much, but my perspective is dramatically different now. I think it's worth pointing out there is an aspect of Scum's Wish that is very Japanese. Placing your identity on a group role instead of your own personality is both normal and expected. I've often wondered what kind of monster I might be if I'd have grown up in a world that didn't support allowing me to grow as an individual. So I don't know, Akane feels like a character ripped from my own psyche. I've no desire to defend her, but I do feel a strong sense of relief that she found a positive perspective and had her -everyone-I-ever-meet-will-eventually-hate-me- battleship blown out of the water. I know what that kind of isolation can do to someone. That doesn't justify anything she did, but I never felt like Scum's Wish tried to justify anything she did. It was a story of perspective that dodged judgement entirely. The character's made judgements, but I never once felt like the narrative was willing to commit to one. The end of the story felt more like a beginning to me as Jacob so aptly pointed out. Every character in Scum's Wish builds their world view on perspective and judgements take a backseat. That's not unrealistic on an individual personality level, but it's odd in a school setting with so many different people involved for all of them to rely so heavily on perspective. It's odd in a similar way to how an anime set in a coed school that never once shows a male character is odd, just this time it's focused pretty clearly on personalities versus gender I think. For contrast I could assign all of the characters myers briggs personality types to illustrate how odd it is that everyone is so geared toward perspective, but I'd need to give them all more thought before I'd want to commit on a specific type for each of them. The female characters are easier to assign than the male characters for obvious reasons, but one traits is immediately obvious to me for everyone in Scum's Wish. They are all perspective leaning personalities. All of that basically to say that yeah, anyone who feels like something is off about the way character's in Scum Wish interact isn't entirely wrong I think. Scum's Wish was a perfect storm from start to finish. Not impossible, people who think like this do exist, you just won't commonly find a bunch of them together unintentionally and exclusively in something like a school setting. Realizing that does peel away some of the magic, but I rely on perspective for my world view so it all clicks into place for me in an emotionally realistic way even though the specific scenario itself is so neatly cut and structured as an emotional roller-coaster of unlikely proportions. I think the whole will they or won't they last question is an interesting point for Akane and Kanai. The only thing I have to add is that Akane was okay with the marriage because she couldn't calculate an end to her relationship with Kanai. He denied her calculated end when he told her he doesn't care who she sleeps with. I'd say the story left us with an optimistic outlook in that sense. Something like: "Look, even Akane has the potential for positive growth and understanding! Don't settle for comfort when you can have a real bond instead." That was the message I'll be taking away at least. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23888 |
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The number of introspective personalities in Scum's Wish has absolutely zero to do with the female wish fulfillment aspect of Akane. You could write a 10,000, a 100,000 or a 1,000,000 word treatise on Akane as a character and it would not change this salient fact: men find her irresistible. Kanai will love her no matter what, for his particular set of reasons. Mugi will love her no matter what, for his particular set of reasons. Both know about her negative qualities - and it doesn't matter to them. It simply doesn't matter. I'm not even saying the mangaka consciously created Akane as a totem of irresistible female power, but create her as such she did. According to the show, the only possible male response to Akane is submission, with the exception of Leftover-kun and even he ends up rather comically running away from her. From my perspective, Lifesongsoa, your personal experience and the identification it has set up for you with aspects of this show have caused you to create an edifice of nuance, especially with Akane, that I personally don't see at all. This is a perfectly understandable state of affairs. Literary criticism has recognized for some time that a reader creates a work along with the author based on his or her own matrix of experiences and memories. As such, we defintely watched different versions of the show. |
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Lifesongsoa
Posts: 34 |
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Alright, lets talk about the male characters then. Mugi didn't offer Akane unconditional love. He tried to change her. He saw his exit as an obvious conclusion either way and mentioned it internally every time he was with her. He was in love with her because of her status as a broken narcissist and his game as it were was to fix her problem. That's an infatuation to be sure, but it's not unconditional. He was trying to save himself.
Kanai's "unconditional love" was offered on the condition she open up to him and become an outlet for his affection. He stated clearly that he didn't care about sex. There is nothing submissive about accepting the activities of someone else when you couldn't care less that they are engaged in them. Imagine her confession had been "sometimes I run off to go bug catching on the weekend." He would have cared about the same amount. I don't think Akane was getting any wish fulfillment out of Kanai's apathy. She got something as a result of it sure, but it a thing that opened the door for another, different thing. Leftovers barely mattered. He would sleep with anyone as easily as Akane and his pride was just hurt that she got the best of him. These three men are not representative of all men everywhere, although Akane did imagine she was attractive to all men everywhere. I see no reason to feel that way provided by Scum's Wish's narrative. Everyone involved in this story, even Leftovers had their motivations cleanly laid out on a table for display. Akane was demonstrated to be wrong about both Mugi and Kanai. If Kanai had indulged Akane's fantasy and offered her unconditional support then he would have been guilty of becoming wish fulfillment, but he didn't. He denied her power game wish and offered a different deal. If anything she submitted to him when she realized he knew her and didn't and likely wouldn't come to hate her. Kanai was presented as unusual and unexpected. He was not what Akane had calculated all men to be. He shattered that illusion and that illusion is the only support we have for coming to the conclusion that all men find Akane irresistible. Akane was clearly presented as wrong. Back to Akane for just a moment. She saw men finding her irresistible as a part of a game she was playing.(define game however you want, point is it was an intentional act to get their attention.) Akane knew better than anyone that no one was going to love her after she betrayed their assumptions and broke their hearts. We have no reason to doubt she was wrong about that and I'd say that is a point the narrative supported. Kanai never made those assumptions about her in the first place and even if he did he didn't care when they were wrong. That wasn't because of lovesick addiction, it was because of apathy. The important nuance here is that Akane's game didn't hurt Kanai. That is my interpretation at least and why I will avoid calling it wish fulfillment. I know you didn't have the same kind of connection and understanding of the characters I did and that is why I'm taking the time to attempt explaining them and attempting to bridge that gap. If that isn't very valuable then /shrug I guess that's that. I try to provide valuable insight. If not, it's not like I want to force anyone to see it my way. I'm just going to miss discussing this show. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23888 |
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I think part of the problem here is that, for whatever reason, my meaning of the term "wish fulfillment" is not getting across. What I mean by wish fulfillment is a character who embodies some aspect that a viewer wishes he or she possessed. Note that by "some aspect" I don't mean that a viewer wants to be like that character in its entirety (although that can be true, too), but just a certain aspect.
For example, one type of male wish fulfillment character is the charming rogue. Yes, he plays around and all the women know he is unfaithful, but gosh darnit, he's just so damn ... charming ... that they can't help themselves. *puke* Akane, I believe, represents a figure of irresistable female power. I don't care how nuanced you think Kanai's attraction to her is, he says to her with respect to her habit of sleeping around and making females jealous (she admits to him to doing both), "Hey, that makes you happy so I'm fine with that." How convenient that he doesn't care about sex. How convenient he doesn't care that she enjoys making other females jealous. That's the bottom line: do what you want. The fact that his condition for accepting this is that she hang around him changes nothing. "Wow, you're so amazing that even if we just look at stars or go to the aquarium, that's fine with me." Mugi says he completely understands what she is and still loves her. Okay, fine, his deal is he wants to cure broken women. That doesn't change the ultimate dynamic: she is irresistible to him. How convenient that there happen to be these males who can just slot her into their personal pathologies. But it all amounts to the same thing: she cannot be resisted. Apparently. Do you really think there are no females out there that don't think it would be cool to hear a man say, "yes, I know all about your bad qualities, but I still HAVE to be with you, anyway." That's power. |
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Lifesongsoa
Posts: 34 |
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Ah okay, I think I understand. You are saying it can be interpreted as wish fulfillment from an individual audience member perspective thinking damn, I wish I could do what she does. You're right on that point. Akane could be considered that way, though I kind of feel like that definition fits anyone who ever gets desirable results in any story, earned or not and with nothing meaningful to say about the morality of the narrative.
I can really only argue that I don't think the narrative presented it that way or encouraged anyone to think of Akane as a positive role model. Her power was presented as destructive to everyone, including herself. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11431 |
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No, I don't think that's what he's saying. I think he means it's wish fulfillment to see a woman every man loves, no matter what she does. The wish isn't in wanting to do what she does, but being so desirable that whatever you do or however awful you may or may not be, you won't be alone. That kind of attractiveness isn't about role models or anything like that, it's just about bulletproof beauty, which is not what you do but how you appear. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23888 |
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Yes, Gina Szanboti hit the nail on the head. You are partially correct, Lifeongsoa, when you correctly identified that the wish fulfillment I was referring to comes from audience members as opposed to referring to characters in the story. But no, it's not that I think women want to do the kind of crap that Akane does and get away with it ... the wish fulfillment is, "damn, she's a complete cow, the morons who are love with her know it ... and they still love her. That's some damn strong mojo."
I think the mangaka who created her kind of digs her. I know you don't think she basically got off scot free for all the evil shit she did, but I do. I don't think the mangaka was interested in seeing a favoured character of hers get any kind of comeuppance. |
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