Forum - View topicYuri Kuma Arashi (TV).
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idontthinkso
Posts: 2 |
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I don't get why people are confused by this, the symbolism is very accessible by Ikuhara standards.
Clearly, nature = human nature, urbanscape = social strictures, bears = base (lesbian) passions, contrasted with the (as of now) pure, platonic feelings of the girls. Lilies = their love. Invisible storm = homophobia, social conventions and expectations, who pressurizes homosexuals into conventional gender roles, to become invisible, part of the crowd with their identities denied. It destroys beautiful things and cuts the lilies. Main character is lesbian. As she runs, she passes landscapes involving water sprouting out of pink structures (fountains etc.) while voiceover speaks of her liking fish like an old man even though it smells (lol). So, to test their love, she has to go to the wall of extinction, which separates unabashed sexuality, which is feared and maligned, with the artificially platonic. You can eat (sexual consummation/give in to desires) or become invisible (closet). Love judgment was yuri confirmed, and well they lick honey off the stigma (female repro.) of her lily. There may be changes to meanings as later eps come, but its clearly about lesbians, the school is a upside down pink triangle, the gay symbol ffs. Also anyone has theories about the male bears? |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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I thought I was pretty good at this sort of thing but I am drawing a blank. More than that I couldn't have mapped most of the the associations you did although I think you are probably correct in what you are seeing. Where I would start is that the male bares must be the yang to the female bears' yin, but for some reason I can't draw it any further than that. Maybe something will come to me later. |
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MorwenLaicoriel
 Posts: 1617 Location: Colorado |
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I think the three male bears might be some sort of representation of Freud's super-ego/ego/id theory?
The defense lawyer (Beauty Life) is the Id, the source of unconscious impulses and basic needs--if you've ever heard someone say that characters or humans are motivated by "sex and violence" that's what people are talking about. Since Beauty Life advocates for the two lesbian bears, saying it's natural for them to want to eat (which seems to be both literally eating humans and also enjoying the other girls sexually) it makes sense that his perspective is from the "Id" point of view. This would probably also put him on the side of nature in the nature/urbanscape divide going on in the show. The prosecutor (Cool Life) is the super-ego, the representation of the internalized rules of society taught to us by parents and other mentors when we're young. He argues against the female bears going along with their baser instincts, saying that you can't just go around eating humans because there's rules about that sort of thing! Beauty Life believes Cool Life is biased against the bears because of this, and more on the side of the humans. So he definitely seems more likely to side with social structures/the city. The judge, Sexy Life, is the balance between the two, the ego. The ego tries to please both the id and super-ego in a way that realistically works within the current situation. Sexy Life mediates the argument between Cool Life and Beauty Life, giving both a chance to speak, and giving the bears an opportunity to choose for themselves which side they'll satisfy. (Admittedly this is the weakest part of my argument, but I think it works.) I also suspect that they're involved with the Wall of Severance somehow--either literally inside of it, or speaking for it, or something. It's a male voice that calls the main character on her phone, and IIRC it mentions to her something like she's being judged by the wall? |
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rheiders
 Posts: 1137 Location: Colorful Colorado :) |
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All I can get so far is that they're a pretty obvious jab at the patriarchy and the fetishization of lesbian relationships in media for a straight male audience--the only male characters in the series so far, and somehow they get to play both prosecutor and defense in deciding what is "sexy". Also, neither Kureha nor any other humans were allowed to testify in a case involving bears eating a human. All three of them are bears, and the argument that ends up winning is Beauty Life's assertion that as bears they should consider bears more. |
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Penguin_Factory
 Posts: 732 Location: Ireland |
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So anyone want to take bets on spoiler[how many of Kureha's classmates turn out to be bears?]
Watching the second episode I started developing a probably not accurate theory, but it's all I could think of: what if the characters are actually on the bear's side of the Severance Barrier but don't realize it? We even hear some of Kureha's classmates ask "does the Severance Barrer actually do anything" and then spoiler[it turns out at least four people in Kureha's class are secretly bears, possibly more if the two bears we saw eating at the end of the last episode weren't Ginko and Lulu, like some are theorizing.] Alternative bullshit theory: How come the only men we've seen are the three bear judges? It's interesting that they're also explicitly identified with the wall. Was the wall built by men? Are all the dudes actually on the other side of the wall and the anti-bear thing is just a ruse? I have to admit I'm already getting kind of impatient with this series. Watching this episode I kept thinking "okay, you've got all of this really on the nose imagery with lillies and honey and pomegranates and shit, but where is this actually going?" Then again Penguindrum also exasperated me a lot early on, so we'll see. [/i] |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23888 |
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I agree that I'm finding the mannered, stylized approach to this show emotionally distancing and kind of dull, frankly. I still chuckle at the repeating gags but that'll wear off soon if there isn't something interesting going on.
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justsomeaccount
 Posts: 471 |
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I thought this second episode made clearly obvious that spoiler[all the humans are or can be converted into bears instead of being so many infiltred. Main reason why the last person revealed to be a bear in the final scene (don't know her name, but come on, her voice is the same) acts surprised at first when she discovers the other two but later she's like nothing when she is a bear. Some metaphor about sexual depravity or something, idk.
No idea though why we saw the trial and licking scene again if in this case the two bears weren't there and Kureha didn't fall unconscious. I agree though it's not very engaging and funny (the sound effects of "SHOCK" "KUMA SHOCK" made me laugh though, I'll give them that), but meh.] |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15516 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Episode 2
Shock! Kuma Shock! Okay, so spoiler[she was a bear all] along? But what about all the spoiler[parts that she acted like earlier at being shocked, kuma shocked]? There is got to be more symbolism to figure out beyond story. Is being a spoiler[bear symbolism of some raunchiness or dirty side of love and I is coming down to some kind of eat or be eaten thing]? |
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Penguin_Factory
Posts: 732 Location: Ireland |
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If you actually go back and look at the scenes of whats her face being kuma shocked, they're perfectly in line with spoiler[her being a bear- she's surprised because she didn't realize Lulu and Ginko are bears too, and she says "this is horrible" because she thinks they're going to compete with her for Kureha. Note that she didn't immediately go straight to the principal with the information that two of the students are really bears, which in hindsight is a major give-away that something else is going in.]
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RestLessone
 Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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I'm wondering about the bird motif. We see the wallpaper-esque bird and lily wallpaper in the opening sequence. Later, when Kureha is running up the stairs to the school roof, the rails have similar-looking bird designs. (Instead of flying upward as you would expect, the birds face downward.) This is probably stretching it too far, but the OP also features that angelic presence behind the bears...essentially, feathered bird wings.
Is Ikuhara the type to include seemingly unimportant visual details but actually have them mean something? I haven't seen his previous works. The birds could just be a recurring design associated with the school and mean absolutely nothing. However, several directors include tiny background details that, upon analysis, mean something to the greater work. Are the birds a reference to another film? Of course, it's only the second episode. It likely means nothing, but even if it did, it's too early to really create a substantial theory. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4104 |
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You mean, like comparing pure love and base carnality? Wow, it's almost as if Ikuhara's comparing the imagined essence of shoujo ai that would be right at home in Maria Watches Over Us All, a love that is only the holding hands and confessing variety, versus the actual act of, well, that symbolism stuff. No, real symbolism is more symbolic; That was about what they could legally show. I haven't seen the second episode of Love Bullet yet {I think my English title of "Bears, it's Raining Lesbians!" is a lot more on the mark} but I get it even if the world is a lot less grounded than penguindrum. Just look at it this way: would the term "man eating bears"{which already came up in this thread} make any sense in this world? All the humans are Yuri or all the men are invisible or bears. And it still makes more sense than Kampfer. It's no where near as engaging or jaw droppingly awesome as the first episode of penguindrum but nothing could be. |
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rheiders
Posts: 1137 Location: Colorful Colorado :) |
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My theory is that the birds represent what girls are "supposed" to become--the Wall of Severance (societal barriers) holds no power over them, because they fly unnoticed over it whenever they wish. When Kureha runs up the spiral staircase, she is running in the opposite direction of the birds, because for some reason she cannot become what society wants from her. The male bears give the bears the option to either "become invisible or eat humans"--this could refer to becoming like a bird (unnoticed and therefore unhindered by the wall) versus becoming like a bear (who does monstrous things because monstrous things are expected of them--"Bears do what bears do!").
What Ikuhara means to say with all this remains to be seen...Although I'm increasingly feeling like this show that claims to be about lesbians...might actually be about lesbians haha. I suppose it would make sense given how short the series is to get right to the point.
Yes.
No. |
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RestLessone
Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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Well, I'm glad that he does like small details and I wasn't stretching to find something. I have a consistent fear that I'm reading too much into a things, so I prefer to admit I'm wrong ahead of time.
I found it curious that the birds were facing downward, toward the ground, rather than upward. This could have been just for the 'going against the flow' effect, but it's interesting that they face away from the roof. Multiple important events have happened in just these two episodes, from the two lovers eating on the roof to the showdown with a bear. While they aim away from danger, the birds still face the earth. A grounded bird is a dead bird, as the mechanism of flight keeps them safe from the majority of predators. Flight is also associated with freedom from worldly constructs. Perhaps, in the race to promote the beautiful dove, society only endangers them and clips their wings. Meanwhile, the bears spend quite of bit of the opening floating through the air and are associated with those angel wings. I think it's primarily about homosexuality, but I'm on the look out for themes relating to the original Bear Storm and brown bear attack incidents. Those themes are infinitely more obvious, though, because it's straight up about man-eating bears. |
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MorwenLaicoriel
Posts: 1617 Location: Colorado |
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oh! me!! ME! spoiler[EVERY NAMED CHARACTER SO FAR BESIDES KUREHA AND SUMIKA ARE BEARS. I realized this halfway through the episode, once the third bear was revealed. Every bear introduced so far has had "Yuri" as the beginning of their family name. The exchange students have this quirk, as well as the third bear revealed, and the student president (which made me realize before the reveal that she was a bear too). IIRC, there were three students discussing the attack on Sumika in the first episode who had surnames beginning with Yuri, and one of them was the class president's gf that attacked Kureha. Also I think the principal also had this naming quirk? So yeah, they're all freaking bears!!! The real question is how many humans are on campus!] |
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rheiders
Posts: 1137 Location: Colorful Colorado :) |
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@RestLessone
Hm, that's an interesting theory! (^^) I think Sexy Life's line to Kureha when he calls her is also interesting in that context: "If your love is true, go to the roof." So the love of those running away from the roof (the birds, the invisible ones) is untrue? Also, I think prior context may help a bit here: staircases and elevators and the concepts of "going up" and "going down" have always been important symbols in Ikuhara's works. In Utena in particular, the title character climbs a spiral staircase each episode to enter the dueling arena (this becomes an elevator in later seasons). And in the second season, characters descending in an elevator represents them moving from their superficial thoughts deeper and deeper into their subconscious. This is also used in Penguindrum when Himari goes to a strange library in search of a certain book that is significant to her. I'm not really going anywhere with this observation, I just think it may be helpful down the line. 
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