Forum - View topicREVIEW: Naruto, Vol. 71
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6043 |
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We're never really told what to what extent Sasuke collaborated with Orochimaru as for his partnership with Obito it more or less was the same deal he had with Orochimaru i.e. using him to go after someone.
If you have people trying to stop you from doing something or trying to take you back somewhere you don't wanna be by force, or even attempting to kill you for mostly arbitrary reasons your more or less well within you're rights to defend yourself.
He killed a guy who wasn't even officially a Kage and responsible for a lot of shady stuff such as ordering a massacre, plotting to overthrow the current Kage of his village, using his stolen Sharingan to attempted being granted powers he could easily abuse, and continuing to run Root after being forced to disband it.
Check the my third point on the matter.
If you had actually read my comments correctly you would've seen me say that Sasuke's actions don't deserve the same level of punishment and scrunity that Orochimaru's and Kabuto's actions do. One was directly responsible for the deaths of an untold number of people conducted inhumane tests on living subjects,attacked a village, and killed the kage of another village. Whereas the other was essentially a multi-agent who dropped more than his fair share of bodies directly and by proxy. Sasuke killed one person (who wasn't even innocent) and somehow he deserves a punishment equal to what Orochimaru & Kabuto should get? |
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Exalted Incarnate
Posts: 283 Location: In the memory of time... |
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Naruto is a great anime, and I recommend it to anyone who has not seen it yet. Personally my greatest issue with it was all of its misleading fillers. Other than that I was not really satisfied with madra not being able to go all out in the war, I still belive he was the greatest antagonist of the series.(those that claim it is orchimaru I agree he is the most hard to kill character of the series maybe in anime...)
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xzy123
Posts: 143 |
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gara was greatest antagonist before |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6043 |
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We're never really told what to what extent Sasuke collaborated with Orochimaru as for his partnership with Obito it more or less was the same deal he had with Orochimaru i.e. using him to go after someone.
If you have people trying to stop you from doing something or trying to take you back somewhere you don't wanna be by force, or even attempting to kill you for mostly arbitrary reasons your more or less well within you're rights to defend yourself. Yes there is the exception of him attacking (and getting mauled) by Killer B,seriously wounding Karin to hit Danzo, and his intention to kill the Kages who were still trapped under the genjustsu Madara casted towards the end. But those other incidents are ones where he had probable to act the way he did.
He killed a guy who wasn't even officially a Kage and responsible for a lot of shady stuff such as ordering a massacre, plotting to overthrow the current Kage of his village, using his stolen Sharingan at the summit to attempt being granted powers he could easily abuse, and continuing to run a shadowy organization after being forced to disband it.
Check the my third point on the matter.
If you had actually read my comments correctly you would've seen me say that Sasuke's actions don't deserve the same level of punishment and scrunity that Orochimaru's and Kabuto's actions do. Sasuke's actions over the course of the series regardless of how you feel about them pale way more in comparison to the things those two did. |
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leatherhead333
 Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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Not sure why you posted twice but alright.
1. The fact Sasuke left with Orochimaru is bad enough. It's treason against his country. They don't have to know the extent of what he did with him in order to throw him in prison. If you join a terrorist group and the government knows it you WILL be arrested if they find you. Simple as that. Plus we knoq he almost killed Killer Bee who is the Raikage's brother. Again you can't just hand wave something like that. It's stupid. 2. Something you don't seem to understand is just because you have a reason for doing something doesn't mean you are left of your crimes. Hell there are people have legitimately had mental disorders sentenced to death/life due to the fact AT the time they knew right from wrong. Sasuke isn't stupid. He knew what he was doing was wrong.Even if we were excuse Danzo him trying to kill Killer Bee was driven by him wanting to destroy the leaf for his brother. Doesn't make it right therefore he should be punished for it. 3. You should try reading my comment because you clearly didn't. The thing here is WHO would vouch for Sasuke? Remember only the elders knew about what happened in the villiage. While Danzo may have been hasty in the destruction of the Uchiha he did have valid reasons for doing so. To prevent a war with needless deaths. There was no guarantee the Uchiha would have been talked out if it especially when you consider that whole nonsense about how their power effects their brain and makes them more emotional. 4. Check my response. 5. I will admit that I screwed up reading that. But regardless my point still stands. His help in the final battle should at BEST reduce his sentence but no completely erase it. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6043 |
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Ooops
Don't you mean village? and leaving the village to go train under a wanted criminal who recently attacked the village isn't considered treason. If Sasuke on the otherhand left the village to go sell village secrets to Orochimaru or helped carried out Orochimaru's plans to destroy the village that would then be considered grounds for treason Sasuke did neither.
Sounds a lot like the American Justice System but jokes aside. Throwing him in jail for the simple act of leaving the village to go train under Orochimaru is kinda of you know.....dumb.
Which in the Narutoverse they won't unless you pt yourself in a position to be found all the while your terrorist organization commits various atrocities with no effort made to stop them.....like the Akatsuki.
If the Leaf could handwave the Cloud flagrantly violating a truce in their attempt to kidnap Hinata which ultimately lead to death Of Neji's father. The Cloud could easily handwave Sasuke's (failed) attempt to capture Killer B and what happened with Ay later on even moreso with the fact that Ay handwaved Naruto wantonly attacking him at the summit.
This concerns a fictional world where most real world concepts and ideas etc either don't exist the same as they do in the real world or at all.
Sasuke only made an attempt on Bee's life once it became clear he wasn't going to succeed in his original mission to capture him and Bee wasn't going to simply let him and the others walk. In fact why not scrub that since it was a stupid idea on Obito's (and Kishimoto's) part to even give Sasuke that task in the first place.
Any former members of Root since Danzo's death removed the justu he used on them to keep them from spilling any pertinent and relevant details about him and the organization and Sarutobi's cabinet who might've been told about the true circumstances of the incident?
In my opinion using genocide in order to avoid causing presumed casualties in a major conflict is never justifiable. Another thing that essentially makes Danzo's actions less valid and justifiable is that he attacked Shisui Uchiha who had intended to use a form of hypnosis to bring the potential coup to an end but after Danzo spitefully took his eye that lead to Itachi being forced to carry out the massacre and setting various events in motion regarding Sasuke. |
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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Yes leaving the country to go train under terrorists would get you arrested. Pretty sure there are plenty of people trying to join ISIS doing the same thing. Join ISIS, get training and then come back to America to wreck shit. Not so easy to do that anymore but it's still a thing that happens. It's not stupid. It's the law whether you like it or not. He joined a man who recently tried to destroy the village and killed the Hokage of his own FREE WILL. He wasn't blackmailed, mind controlled or anything. I don't get how you seem to think that should hold no consequences.
Also where was it said that nobody was trying to stop the Akatsuki? They are some of the most powerful ninja. It's unlikely that anyone who spotted them would live for long. Kages can't exactly go out and fight them. Anbu Black Ops are pretty much useless too. Ay didn't let go of his grudge when he found out Killer Bee was alive to my knowledge. Why would he do so later? Ay's always been pretty emotionally driven. It doesn't make much sense for him not care about it. Especially when you consider Sasuke tried to kill him and the other Kage. Though I assume nobody said anything about that because attempted murder is always fine as long as you don't end up killing the person...................ugh what a twisted way of thinking. Sasuke knew that Ox would have been extracted from Bee once he was caught. Which would mean death. He'd be aiding in a murder. Thus he is a accomplice. Also this has nothing to do with this being a fictional world. It has to do with the writer wanting to redeem every character possible whether they DESERVE it or not. Which ruins any morals that Naruto could possibly be trying to teach. Again hardly anyone knew about the plot against the Uchiha. Very few if any people in his organization knew about it. Plus Danzo's influence over them was strong. You think these guys who have been under him for SO long are going to say anything? If you follow someone for so long eventually you start to agree with them. Sai was pretty much the only person who was shown to be disloyal to Danzo. And he didn't know anything about it. That just leaves the elders who at the time agreed with Danzo. The 3rd Hokage was the only one who was against it. Plus they didn't know about when he attacked Shisui. So all and all there is no evidence to support Sasuke's claims. There was no guarantee his plan stop the coup would work. And by the time the leaf would have been informed about it the war would have started already. I'm not trying to justify Danzo's actions completely but it's not like he was COMPLETELY in the wrong here. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6043 |
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The difference between foreign ISIS recruits and Sasuke is that those ISIS recruits take the knowledge they learn to essentially go and commit things such as needless murder,wanton destruction, and overthrowing governments. Sasuke took what Orochimaru taught him to go hunt a wanted criminal those aren't comparable.
Never outright stated but when you consider all the stuff that Akatsuki had been doing and getting away with for years it becomes hard to argue that the villages were making any concerted effort to stop them. Even when Kisame and Itachi had attempted to capture Naruto the Leaf essentially didn't even try to go after the group or even warn the other villages with Jinchuriki's of the group's actions and what that would mean if they succeeded (which they inevitably did anyway.)
If all the various nation's along with their denizens could put aside years of bad blood to come together to fight a war I would think Ay could overlook Sasuke's actions prior to and during the summit.
Which would be a reasonable argument if Sasuke had succeeded at either attempt and like I said twice before if one were to apply real world rules and laws to this fictional manga series that picks and chooses which ones to use and which to disregard.
Most of us would simply dismiss it as shaky writing since Kishimoto could've easily had Sasuke do his own thing after disposing of Orochimaru, Itachi, & Danzo without directly and indirectly antagonizing a few people. But had to needlessly have Sasuke do a few extra things for the sake of tension that only garnered him contempt and hatred from the fanbase and accomplished nothing for him personally. But if you want to look at Sasuke's quest in that light that's fine too I guess.
Well with Danzo's death causing the cursed seal placed on all members to disappear why should we assume they wouldn't. Plus if all their members were that loyal to Danzo then Sai as you mentioned for example wouldn't have gone against Danzo's exact orders regarding killing Sasuke.
Even if there are no are no practical ways to corroborate the truth of the matter it's still hard to essentially condemn Sasuke for Danzo's death. And unlike Sarutobi's death utterly no one in the village cared all that much about Danzo's death to make the idea of punishing Sasuke for that a big deal let alone necessary.
So because there was no guarantee it would work that justifies attacking Shisui, stealing his sharingan, and then ordering the entire clan be slaughtered under the pretense the coup was unavoidable which paradoxically it was and wasn't thanks to Danzo? |
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