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REVIEW: Mobile Suit Gundam SEED FREEDOM Anime Film Review

Stelman257 wrote:

I thought they absolutely nailed perfectly, and a clear shining point above the original dubs awkward, stilted, slavish adhesion to being a near direct 1:1 to the Japanese script. There are times where that’s perfectly fine, but Gundam Seed I thought definitely benefitted from a little more finesse with its localized script.

I can't speak or read Japanese, so I can't be sure which is the more "slavish" script, but I find it hard to believe "screaming into the hereafter" is the more localized translation (it might be farther from the original Japanese, but it's certainly also farther from spoken English). There are other places where the original script has more common idiomatic language which makes me doubt it's more of a 1:1 translation in general. (For example--and I'm using the first episode here as a reference, because it's on youtube and thus easier for me to scan through side by side with the original--Rau mentions having a "sixth sense about these things" while the redub just talks about "intuition".)

Stelman257 wrote:

I think the new script sounds brilliant here, the old one is very stilted and formal. Like a business transaction being talked about. It would fit in a different Gundam series perhaps, or if these characters were portrayed in such a neutral way.

Your analysis misses the context. This is more business like, there should be smug confidence (delivered with venom)--these aren't soldiers screaming on the battlefield, they're professionals preparing for a preemptive attack (even the redub actor delivers it similarly to the original, without excessive emotion). Which makes me suspect that what you're calling "confused and wooden" from the original dub is just naturalistic or subtle.

And yes, the show makes clear the racism and hostility both sides have for each other, but it also makes clear that these aspects are not always explicit or cartoonish--there is a descent into open virulent hatred over the course of the series, there is a progression in the story and its presentation (and it has a lot to say about the banality of evil). Not only that, there's a progression within the episode--the clinical description of the war, Rau's cold analysis, Mu's cocksure attitude, all giving way to the chaos and violence when we see the war firsthand from the point of view of the civilians. Again, the same is at play with the Rau performance--he should be unsettling at the start; he should have a public face that isn't also a Saturday morning cartoon villain. Not everything should be 100% in your face all the time.

But that's still leaving aside it's a poor line. Just try saying both of them out loud; the redub is a jumble of syllables. "Filthy surface-dwellers" is fine, if trite and awkward to get out of the mouth. It's also banal and uninformative; "still clinging to the planet's surface" expresses not just generic hatred, but a specific contempt about the people on earth being backwards and stuck in the past. The hatred isn't because they live on the surface but because they cling to the past. And "screaming into the hereafter" is just indefensible in context--it's not a Shakespearean soliloquy. They could have said "straight to hell," which is as boring as the rest of the line but is at least how a person might talk (and there's no need to synchronize the line with lip flaps so there isn't any excuse there).

I'm also pretty sure the redub line is just... wrong. They're not going to send them screaming into the hereafter; the opening of the war involves the installation of neutron jammers not a frontal attack--they literally are going there to "deal a severe blow" to the planet's economy, not kill people and "send them screaming into the hereafter." And as even your other clip portrays, the genocidal intentions of ZAFT were not evident/widespread at the outset of the war, the whole point is about a continual cycle escalation which is a lot harder to sell if, as you seem to want, everyone's filled with bloodlust from the start--"dealing a severe blow" at the start of the war becomes "send them all screaming to the hereafter" by the end.

And just to emphasize that these changes are all over the script: Rau's "If we don't seize the moment now, later we'll pay with our lives for our reluctance to take action" becomes "If we let this chance slip away, then I assure you we will be paying for that failure with our very lives". Sure, both lines have to be padded out to match the mouths, but at least the original dub gets the real line out and just pads the end. It's phrased more actively and immediately--"seize the moment now" flowing right in to "we'll pay with our lives". The redub is flatter and meandering, "letting the chance slip away" then redundant words until we get to "we will be paying"--we will be paying? You think that's a better localization?--and the actual point doesn't come until the very end.

You have a clear affection for the version you saw first, but that's blinding you to its mediocrity. If NYAV Post ends up dubbing the movie, maybe they'll do a better job. I hope they do a better job, but that means I hope they're aware of the serious shortcomings of their redub, that it was a rush job and that wasn't what they intended to make.

Stelman257 wrote:

https://twitter.com/michelle_tan101/status/1356113287671328768 Like come on man. It’s fine if you prefer the original Ocean dub. But don’t you dare try and tell me the new NYAV post dub sounds bad.

Oof, that's the example you want to use? Are you sure about that? I'd just point out that in the original Patrick Zala actually sounds angry.

Deacon Blues wrote:

The original dub of SEED is so hamfisted and cringe-worthy in comparison that it's hard for anyone to look at it objectively because of the whole rose-tinted nostalgia glasses. It's the same for so many people with Gundam Wing, too. I'm sorry, but Le Creuset is NOT naturally sounding at all. His entire performance is overly theatrical, sorry. The same people complained about Char being recast, too. It's eye-roll worthy at this point.

I'm not saying it's a perfect dub but the cast put their heart and souls into their performance and did an amazing job embodying their characters, so it's still the SEED dub in my opinion, flaws and all.

And overly theatrical as it was, it was played with such finesse and talent.

A lot

You have a clear affection for the version you saw first, but that's blinding you to its mediocrity.

That said, I think it's amusing to be criticizing nostalgia in a discussion about a movie that is specifically aimed at a nostalgic audience. This isn't a soft-reboot with our old heroes in generic mentor roles for a new generation. This isn't an entirely separate standalone story set in the Cosmic Era. It's a sequel to Destiny, with our lead once again being Kira. T.M. Revolution and See-Saw are on the soundtrack. The logo looks like it was made back when the movie was first announced.

Regardless of your opinion on NYAV's dub of these shows, the reality is that nobody's nostalgic for that version. They're too recent and have been given too limited of a release to make much head way against 16 years of Ocean's version being the only one. Destiny's re-dub is still Blu-Ray exclusive and given an earlier response in this thread, that clearly wasn't a well publicized release. Even the compilation films are still only available with the original cast (though, I would not be surprised if Freedom triggers a new re-release of those like they did in Japan). I suspect this movie will be the first time many will hear the re-dub's cast. A core part of this movie's appeal is nostalgia and for those checking out the dub, that will likely be missing. Of course, the answer is just to watch it in Japanese or not bother with it at all.

However, I will say the voices of Murata Azrael, Rau la Creuset, and Mu La Flaga are perfect in the old dub, and I will hear no criticisms about them.

I'm not blinded by anything here haha.

but I think there's potentially just as many, if not more, that could be discovering the series through the new dub. And to me that's matters more than "nobody being nostalgic for this version". As far as fans outside Japan go, anyway.

Back to the main point, the issue I had with Freedom is that spoiler[a character who, up until now had been rarely if ever sexualized (namely Lacus), is put in a skintight plug suit and pilots a mecha with a cockpit straight out of Cross Ange--i.e., putting the character in the doggy-style position--with a camera that enjoys getting shots of her T&A.] The cockpit design, the flight suit design, and the camera work are all solely for titillation and feel completely at odds with the rest of the anime and its design.