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Anime World Order



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 389
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:01 pm Reply with quote
Dudes bein' rude, Erin. Get my catchphrase theft right! I'll commend you for being able to write something about Rental Magica (the series itself; Right Stuf's presentation and extras are fantastic). Of every review I've ever had to write, Rental Magica was the single hardest thing I've ever done. I feel absolutely nothing towards it besides "well...the theme song's cool."

Psycho 101 wrote:
I don't mean to offend but as a reviewer here I don't see how you could just dismiss an entire theme/sub-genre like that and basically say they're all the same and I don't need to know anything about them.


Speaking as another reviewer--and I'm not just any reviewer, I'm the BEST ANIME REVIEWER IN THE MARTIAL WORLD--I can perfectly see the validity of not providing a summary for a given anime title. As Hiroki Azuma put forth, the value of plot and narrative in Japanese animation has significantly decreased over the last fifteen years. In 2010, the motor which powers the "otaku market" lies more in visuals and mood than storyline and characterization. Or, to put it more cynically, all you need to sell merchandise and inspire doujinshi goods are character designs and a few personality traits. This line of thinking used to be solely limited to the realm of pornography, but it's now well...kinda the standard. After all, people do not primarily consume porn because of its storylines or characters; indeed, for many such matters aren't really even on the radar.

This No Money cartoon in question happens to really be porno, and as such describing its premise and characters is generally an absolute fool's errand in explaining why people ACTUALLY like it. Based solely on a glance at the cover, I would wager the story is something along the lines of "the big guy with the DOMINATING BLACK HAIR totally rizzapes the bejeebus out of that girl-looking kid [who's really a boy] with the SUBMISSIVE BLONDE HAIR so much until the kid loves him for it" which come to think of it is the basic "plot" of many a yaoi doujinshi. But again, that doesn't really matter, does it?

I'm certainly no fujoshi. I must confess that I don't make any sort of habit out of watching, owning, or even downloading animated porn. I'm certainly not opposed to the concept, it's just that pretty much all of them either 1. deal in absolutely abhorrent actions that I have no interest in seeing, least of all for purposes of arousal (this is by far and away the most common occurrence), 2. feature artwork, animation, and/or character designs not to my liking (also very common), or 3. are non-explicit, "softcore" material. As such, I tell everyone that Japanese animated pornography, just like their live-action output, requires far too much effort to try and seek out anything that resembles the content found in "mainstream" American/European smut for me to bother with it. To be fair, I imagine that lack of resemblance is precisely why its fans enjoy it.

I could be wrong, but...nah. I'll just assume anyone who claims otherwise is lying to save face.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:20 pm Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:

That explains how its possible, but it still makes no sense. Streaming is less trouble than renting, everything rent-worthy ought to be stream-worthy.

The problem is that "stream-worthy" tries to cover too much ground, from things worth watching if you have some time to kill to things worth watching several times ... "re-stream worthy", if you will.

Indeed, the way the diagram lines it up, something to be flushed down the toilet can be better than something to be tossed in the garbage like spoiled fruit. Which is a bit odd.


Hey dude you are way overthinking this.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:32 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
agila61 wrote:

That explains how its possible, but it still makes no sense. Streaming is less trouble than renting, everything rent-worthy ought to be stream-worthy.

The problem is that "stream-worthy" tries to cover too much ground, from things worth watching if you have some time to kill to things worth watching several times ... "re-stream worthy", if you will.

Indeed, the way the diagram lines it up, something to be flushed down the toilet can be better than something to be tossed in the garbage like spoiled fruit. Which is a bit odd.


Hey dude you are way overthinking this.


Razz

Its just naturally confusing to not have them line up. Not Erin's fault, of course ... probably somebody further up the editorial ladder going on their cynical gut reaction instead of thinking it through.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23880
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:38 pm Reply with quote
Anime World Order wrote:
As such, I tell everyone that Japanese animated pornography, just like their live-action output, requires far too much effort to try and seek out anything that resembles the content found in "mainstream" American/European smut for me to bother with it. To be fair, I imagine that lack of resemblance is precisely why its fans enjoy it.


Warning: I'm about to reveal more about my porn-surfing habits than anybody likely wants to know...

...but the only Japanese live-action porn I'm familiar with seems pretty innocuous. I go to aggregator sites like, say, Xhamster or Xvideos and click on the Asian or Japanese categories. Pretty much all you get are normal sex clips. But I have no doubt there is some pretty freaky stuff out there. Anyway, I like the Asian stuff because the women generally don't abide by the "clean-shaven" look that has lamentably taken over NA porn. On the down side, the, uh, "actresses" involved have a disconcerting habit of sounding like 10-year-old girls being tortured/murdered while simulating throes of passion. So yeah, it usually sound off for me.
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Anime_Rapture



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 33
Location: Madison, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:49 pm Reply with quote
I kind of feel the same way about Soul Eater, I just got to the part where they get to the jungle. I really hope the final part to the series can stand up like the first two parts. This whole Arachne thing is pretty meh.
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Anime_Rapture



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 33
Location: Madison, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:51 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
On the down side, the, uh, "actresses" involved have a disconcerting habit of sounding like 10-year-old girls being tortured/murdered while simulating throes of passion. So yeah, it usually sound off for me.


Bahaha!! This is so true!! Not to mention censored....
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Kimiko_0



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 1796
Location: Leiden, NL, EU
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:52 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
I can't think of any other shows along these lines. There are shows like Planetes and Library Wars (the noitaminA one not "Armed Librarians") which follow a young woman as she joins, respectively, a group of space trash collectors and a military unit that protects the right to read. Obviously neither of these represent real-life professional situations, but they do touch on some of the same issues and present the stories from the woman's point of view. Both shows have a romantic relationship between the woman and her senpai trainer.

I've seen both anime already. Planetes shifted to being all about Hachimaki halfway through, but before that it was good. Library Wars had decent characters, but its premise made it hard to take seriously.

Quote:
Tale of Saiunkoku

Ah yes, it's on my to-watch list.

Quote:
[I hope this doesn't get pulled as a consequence of the "no recommendations" rule.]

I think the rule is there to prevent lists without any added value, and things like "this is good, you should watch it". If you include commentary describing themes, what the anime is about, and how it relates to other, similar anime, well, that shouldn't be disallowed on a site like ANN, right?
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23880
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:58 pm Reply with quote
Anime_Rapture wrote:
Blood- wrote:
On the down side, the, uh, "actresses" involved have a disconcerting habit of sounding like 10-year-old girls being tortured/murdered while simulating throes of passion. So yeah, it usually sound off for me.


Bahaha!! This is so true!! Not to mention censored....


Ah yes, I forgot about the whole pixilation of naughty bits thing. Somebody really needs to come up with de-pixilation software where with one click you get rid of that and are left with the uncensored footage.

...Hmmm.

brb
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Keichitsu0305





PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:17 pm Reply with quote
neocloud9 wrote:
KanjiiZ wrote:
neocloud9 wrote:
You liked Gravitation but not Descendants of Darkness? That's...kinda bizarre. I've never met anyone who said that before. Care to explain why? Just curious, not judging here.


In my opinion Descendants of Darkness was gayer than Gravitation. There were a lot of uncomfortable scenes between the main characters. But I loved the Devil's Trill arc. To that day, that is the only anime to ever give me chills.


I don't quite follow you. Gravitation was a love story about a homosexual relationship, whereas Descendants of Darkness was an action/horror show that also included homosexual relationships, even though that wasn't its primary focus.
.......
The relationship between the two main characters was actually quite sweet, though. I'm not sure why you'd find it uncomfortable, unless homosexual romance wasn't your cuppa to begin with.

...And in that case, Gravitation would almost certainly be "gayer" anyway.


Agreed! (Is 'gayer' a real adjective?)
In the show, Yuki and Shuichi's relationship was in the open and you knew they loved each other (even though it took Yuki longer to admit it). So it definetley was a romance anime; not just a show with 'gay/lesbian themes'.

Descendants of Darkness, like neocloud9 already stated, only had 'gay themes' meaning no one was in love with each other (very disappointing) but the atmosphere was like a shounen-ai; you know they seemed to like each other.

Other than Gravitation (I love the soundtrack BTW), shows like Junjo Romantica (manga has details), Kizuna (OVA), and Sukisyo (based on video game) has the relationship as the primary focus.
------

+ The Shelf Pictures: Whoa!!! I will never own this many anime/manga/figures/other merchandise in my LIFE!!! But, then again, I don't have to own everything I like....

I might rent "Rental Magica". It sounds kinda okay plus I'm trying to watch more magical anime so i'll check it out!!! Very Happy
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 598
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:33 pm Reply with quote
Anime World Order wrote:
...the value of plot and narrative in Japanese animation has significantly decreased over the last fifteen years. In 2010, the motor which powers the "otaku market" lies more in visuals and mood than storyline and characterization. Or, to put it more cynically, all you need to sell merchandise and inspire doujinshi goods are character designs and a few personality traits. This line of thinking used to be solely limited to the realm of pornography, but it's now well...kinda the standard. After all, people do not primarily consume porn because of its storylines or characters; indeed, for many such matters aren't really even on the radar.

I agree. In the case of yaoi there is not much variance from the standard plot line, which Daryl correctly spells out.

In general, the more hardcore the porn the less room there is for plot. It's my understanding that most current porn in American is summarized with everything you need to know right in the title: "Three Redheads Do _____" or the classic, "Debbie Does Dallas". Spoilers, but the plot is about sex or sexual acts, and if there is any question as to what sort of sexual acts, that question is typically answered in the title. Handily, "character traits" are also in porn titles. The characters are redheads, and chances are you are not looking for much more character development than that (and if you are, your audience demographic is being under served.)

I don't read romance novels, but it's my understanding that they adhere to strict formulaic guidelines. All you need to see is the cover and a title to find out if Fabio is a pirate this time.

In any case, I had no question as to the plot of "No Money" because it was answered in the title and with the DVD cover. "I bet it is about a broke dude getting banged," I thought I as I clicked "Rent". And I was right.

Consequently, I never did see "Snakes on a Plane".

agila61 wrote:
...something to be flushed down the toilet can be better than something to be tossed in the garbage like spoiled fruit. Which is a bit odd.

Note to self: stop flushing rotten fruit...
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Kyokat



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:40 pm Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:
I don't read romance novels, but it's my understanding that they adhere to strict formulaic guidelines. All you need to see is the cover and a title to find out if Fabio is a pirate this time.


I do, as it happens, and they're no more formulaic than saying all mysteries are alike because there's always going to be a case to solve or all science fiction is alike because it takes place in space with science. It's one thing not to like a genre, but please don't dismiss the books in that genre as all being the same, especially the genre that wipes the floor with all the other book categories when it comes to sales.

If you're actually interested in learning about the differences, http://smartbitchestrashybooks.com/ is really an awesome (and funny) site.

erinfinnegan wrote:
In any case, I had no question as to the plot of "No Money" because it was answered in the title and with the DVD cover. "I bet it is about a broke dude getting banged," I thought I as I clicked "Rent". And I was right.


And yet, you still found out that it matters how said banging occurs, because you didn't like the way they did it but presumably wouldn't have minded a different variation. So the plot was important.
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PBsallad



Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 338
Location: Phoenix
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:15 pm Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:
Raikuro wrote:
erinfinnegan wrote:
If it's ever streaming or re-released I'm sure I'll end up watching it.

http://www.youtube.com/show?p=i6Iuiz7TVxI&feature=fvsp
There ya go!

Shocked


Haven't seen DoD but it's also on Hulu and Manga.

http://www.hulu.com/descendants-of-darkness

http://www.manga.com/titles/descendents-darkness

edt: Haven't seen part 3 of Soul Eater, but the first disc should be coming from Netflix soon. I'm a little disappointed to here about that snow arc. Hopefully I'll enjoy it.
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poonk



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 1490
Location: In the Library with Philip
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:22 pm Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:
In the case of yaoi there is not much variance from the standard plot line, which Daryl correctly spells out.
Erin, have you really read that much BL/yaoi? Because while I wouldn't argue that there isn't a lot of non-con/rape to be found (see Richard J.'s explanation of the difference a few pages back, as he put it quite nicely), I also wouldn't say Daryl's off-the-cuff synopsis of Dude X "totally rizzapes the bejeebus out of that girl-looking kid [who's really a boy]" is typical. As someone who buys a lot of BL manga, somehow I manage to find mostly titles that are nothing like that. Am I just lucky, or is someone giving you poor reading recommendations for the genre? (Or perhaps people tend to remember only the over-the-top offensive stuff, or the examples that reinforce their expectations?)

(Edit: Added the "isn't" to my second sentence. Though I'm sure everyone got the gist of what I was saying, I'm just anal like that. Laughing )


Last edited by poonk on Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 598
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:30 pm Reply with quote
Kyokat wrote:
If you're actually interested in learning about the differences, http://smartbitchestrashybooks.com/ is really an awesome (and funny) site.

I highly approve of this URL.

Kyokat wrote:
It's one thing not to like a genre, but please don't dismiss the books in that genre as all being the same, especially the genre that wipes the floor with all the other book categories when it comes to sales.

I am aware of how well they sell.

If someone complained to me, "I hate anime because it all has the same plot," I wouldn't get offended. Loads of anime series have similar plotlines, moreso now than ever.

I get offended when people say that "all manga looks the same" and my reaction is always to come up with the two most disparate examples possible and tell that person to go check them out, like The Walking Man and Di Gi Charat.

Kyokat wrote:
And yet, you still found out that it matters how said banging occurs, because you didn't like the way they did it but presumably wouldn't have minded a different variation. So the plot was important.

Alright, fine, you got me.

Reading a summary would not have dissuaded me, although reading a review would clearly have steered me away from the title.
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Kyokat



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:58 pm Reply with quote
Heh, I hear them reviewers can be useful for things like this. Very Happy

erinfinnegan wrote:
If someone complained to me, "I hate anime because it all has the same plot," I wouldn't get offended. Loads of anime series have similar plotlines, moreso now than ever.

I get offended when people say that "all manga looks the same" and my reaction is always to come up with the two most disparate examples possible and tell that person to go check them out, like The Walking Man and Di Gi Charat.


Wait, can't you just reverse that? Doesn't this make just as much sense?

Quote:
If someone complained to me, "I hate anime because it all looks the same," I wouldn't get offended. Loads of anime series have similar artstyles, moreso now than ever.

I get offended when people say that "all manga has the same plot" and my reaction is always to come up with the two most disparate examples possible and tell that person to go check them out, like The Walking Man and Di Gi Charat.


I barely even had to switch the words.
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