Forum - View topicNEWS: CMX on Tenjho Tenge Edits Again
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Dejiko
 Posts: 276 Location: Holland (between Great Britain and Germany) |
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It's not just the edits themselves, it's about the way this company ignores consumer input but still expects us to happily buy a watered down product. That's not going to work in a crowded market where their competitors proved them wrong from day one (Berserk, Negima etc). I really want to support CMX, I really do. Until they want my support, I'll vote with my money; I'll buy other titles I'm interested in.
Exactly, and seeing as their 'flagship title' TenTen never showed up in the bookscan toplist and ranks terribly low on the Amazon sales chart compared to other manga... who are they trying to fool? Their 'economic approach to reality' reminds me of ADV's talks about (the supposedly uber-succesful) TAN. I.e. they're good at making shit up. |
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Death&Rebirth
Posts: 4 |
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Well I don't know where TenTen is "and in fact, it is one of our best-selling titles.". In my store clearly it isn't. I had it at price tag of 11.5 € and now i'm selling at 5€ to see if i flush it out, something that other stores that deal with manga in my country are doing as well. Concerning the "official" numbers of Diamond Dist., the sell numbers of TenTen are getting lower from volume to volume. The edits afects not only visual content (added badly draw bras, panties, longer hair, more steam from out of nowhere to cover the nudity or crop the image just to cover the sex images), but dialogues are edited also (specially ones involving the african character)
At least they decided to talk about it.
For what i've know and what i've seen and read, until now, i only remenber one title that was edited from the serialization to the volume, in Japan, and it was "Hang" one of the short stories made Hiroki Endo (that Dark Horse will publish in 2007), where a sex scene was made a bit less explict. |
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Renaisance Otaku
 Posts: 469 Location: Modesto, CA |
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How do you know these people have no interest in the title? I'm sure most of the people following this are either interested in the manga or are even fans. TenTen's one of my favorite titles for it's characters, action, story and art. I was looking forward to a US release, but now have to be satified with the Japanese versions I can't read without a text file. I apreciate the artwork, so I don't like seeing it altered because they didn't want to shrinkwrap it. You may not care because you're not interested in the title. Say they were to license one you are interested in and give it the TenTen treatment because it "worked so well". Would you care then? Censored artwork is still censored artwork, no matter what the change. It represents the artist. A lot of the edits are rather obvious. I really don't understand this stance of "it's no big deal" just due to the nature of the edits either. So only the depraived cry foul if nudity is cut? Nudity and sex or no, it's still part of the art. It's still part of the whole package. The presentations different now. The story is still there, but the feel is changed. The reason that it's such a fuss is primarily because if you support an edited manga, it shows that one can do whatever they please and get away with it. If you support CMX's TenTen, you're saying that you don't care, just give me whatever you feel like. This may have been the norm in the early nineties, but it's unnecessary in today's flooded market. The dumbing down of "Battle Vixans", "Battle Royale" and other examples all happen because no one cares. Sure censoring has opened it up to a bigger market. A market it wasn't intended for, and one that probably can't afford it. TenTen's a older teen/young adult title, not a pre-teen one. It doesn't seem to have helped much either. Sure we could take the road of "edited TenTen in english is better than no TenTen at all". Nowadays that's ridiculous however. The anime is out on US shores, several companies are releasing numoerous works. There's no reason why this couldn't have had an uncensored release. The only way we'll ever have an uncensored release is if we complain about it. End of story. Saying we aren't fans just because we refuse to accept a watered down version is downright insulting. We aren't fans because we hate seeing a title get mistreated in it's american release? What logic is that? Desent is a form of fandom. Non-fans don't care or are oblivious eitherways. Accepting whatever they throw at you is fine for those that don't care, but don't say we aren't fans because we refuse to. Needless to say, do not boycott all of CMX. To my knowledge, this is the only messed up release of theirs. If their other titles interest you, pick them up. Show CMX and DC that you appreciate proper releases. It's TenTen that we're not happy about. |
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orobouros
Posts: 14 |
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Another panel, maybe? I'm not trying to dispute anything, just give a different perspective. I admittedly left once it was clear the two panelists (who were late) were trying to skirt the issue as much as possible. It probably was a different panel, seeing how the one I was at was mostly vacant. After getting hit hard at what I'm guessing is the first panel, they probably decided to avoid the issue at the next one. |
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freshkazuki
 Posts: 235 Location: Texas |
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There's been an argument running through some of these posts that people that want to see Tenge unedited are perverts
That's so wrong. All I want is to see American manga in the same version that was released in Japan....minus the Japanese of course, because I can't read it. But as far as the art goes, I want to see the same art as the Japanese readers did. When I go to an art museum, I don't go to see paintings with objectionable images covered up. I don't go to see movies at the theater and the screens go black when the owners fear they might offend someone. As for dialogue, I know translations can never be 100% accurate, but translators should come as close as possible to the original intent of the released version in Japan. As far as I know, Keith Giffen is the only comic book writer that is making his own translation of a translation with no knowledge of Japanese. You see this "adaption" junk a lot with ancient and Classical works of literature such as Homer's Iliad, or Gilgamesh, where a writer just looks at other translations and adaptations and then just makes his own without knowing Greek or the original source language. Now, I do remember Richard Knakk, a fantasy author, adapting Ragnarok, so again I don't know how accurate that corruption of a translator was. Hopefully, we'll never get to the point that a writer that doesn't know Japanese looks at the untranslated manga and just makes up his own story and that's what gets printed 
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Kagemusha
 Posts: 2783 Location: Boston |
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I believe a good deal of CMX's sales come from the direct market, where TenTen usually charts pretty high.
True. I can still understand why they would want to make it PG-13, as the story is pretty juvenile for the most part (I will admit it gets better) and would appeal to the shonen, but there is a big diffrence between cutting out a one page lesbian scene and altering art and dialouge. As for the "ban CMX" thing, sorry, but they're releasing Emma. |
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R.G.
Posts: 684 |
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It may surprise you to know that according to a recent issue of NEWTYPE USA,CMX's TenTen (Vol. 5) is among the Top Ten manga titles.
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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I caved on the "Ban/Boycott CMX" thing when they started releasing Kamikaze Kaito Jeanne.
I'm among the many people who would love to buy TenTen if it was unedited. I was planning on buying the series originally, but when word hit that it was severely edited, I said "screw it" and decided not to support CMX (unless they got something I really wanted and didn't edit it). |
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Abarenbo Shogun
 Posts: 1573 |
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And when was the last time we gave two shits about the Direct Market? A market that is more known for being the realm of Comic Books? ANN religiously quotes Bookscan, which shows time and time again, Tokyopop and Viz titles selling XXXXX Units. Can you name me one instance where a CMX title has warranted mention in Bookscan?
Wanna see hard numbers as to how many units sold versus the other titles. Last edited by Abarenbo Shogun on Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ac_dropout
Posts: 88 Location: Newark, NJ |
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I don't see how the "art" was negatively effected when CMX decided to edit out the sex scene between a Black man and Asian woman. Or a rape scene in a laundrymat.
Ever thought that the big book store would not carry a title if contained those scenes. To believe the North American market is liberal to the sexual images and inter-racial sex scene is not really plausible. In the end it is a business for these people, so there is no point in releasing a book that would just get banned by the conservative retailers. Eventually, I can see a uneditted "collector's" format being release once the title is popular enough. But first it needs to get popular. I mean think about this "boycott" in the extreme. Let's say it succeed and DC/CMX goes out of business. They still have the USA license for 5 years. So now nobody gets a copy of the book in English for the next 5 years. Way to go fans, let's put everyone out of business and make sure nobody can enjoy the title. |
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Abarenbo Shogun
Posts: 1573 |
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In the immortal words of Penn and Teller: BULLSHIT!! Talk about your excessive useage of the strawman fallacy. If many of these "Conservative" retailers are afraid of selling porno-ish or offensive material, then explain to me why I can get copies of books where kids kill each other in gruesome ways and there is several instances of underage-implied nudity and sexual acts (Battle Royale), Gore and Violence is rampant and at times critical to the story (Beserk), a series where underage girls go after a especially underage boy (Negima!), and enough gay titles to make the Village People happy for a decade at the local Borders or Barnes and Noble? |
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Royal Devil
 Posts: 194 |
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Where do you live? Cause I have to order the manga you listed online since not one book store around here is willing to sell them. 
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HitokiriShadow
Posts: 6251 |
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I live in Texas (generally considered to be pretty conservative) and I have no trouble finding those titles in bookstores.
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GATSU
Posts: 15356 |
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Kagemusha: Emma's probably a good series, but from a marketing stand-point, I don't see why it would sell in the U.S., when we get tons of Victorian-era shows on PBS for free. It's sort of the same reason that Memoirs of a Geisha wasn't big in Japan. Plus if series which only take place 30-40 years ago don't sell well here, imagine
how tough it is for a title taking place two centuries ago. I mean, sure, you could argue that Kenshin does well, but that's because it's about samurai, not about Victorian maids. DC seems to suffer from that, "If it's big in Japan, it must be big here", mentality which has hurt certain anime companies over the last few years. Devil: Did you try your comic store? Hitokiri: Texas is actually progressive, compared to the rest of the Bible Belt. If Devil lives in a Mid-Western state, I could understand his challenge in finding a title like Berserk in a bookstore. |
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HitokiriShadow
Posts: 6251 |
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I think that was more because they used a bunch of Chinese actresses for something distinctly Japanese. It was grossly ignorant of the director to do such a thing. I suppose this just goes to show Hollywood's (and the U.S. in general) ignorance of such things. The novel it was based on was also an American creation, I believe.
I suppose that's true. |
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