Forum - View topicREVIEW: Free! - Iwatobi Swim Club Sub.DVD
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SailorTralfamadore
 Posts: 499 Location: Keep Austin Weeb |
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Then I think you have a mistaken idea of what feminism stands for, Chrysostomus. It's not anti-sex, or sex-in-media. It's not anti-pornography. (At least, mainstream modern feminism is not.) It's against exploitative or degrading use of sexuality in media. It's against pornography if the people involved were coerced into or abused in it (which really applies more to live-action porn, not anime).
Others have pointed out specific reviews by women who consider themselves feminist were positive about fanservice. That's because they didn't see the nudity as exploitative. Just like Free!'s is not exploitative. So what is your issue here? Do you want the site to condemn all nudity? Do you disagree with the site about specific examples of female fanservice they thought were exploitative? (I'd think that would be the crux of your argument then.) Part of the problem here is you're viewing "ANN reviews" as a hive mind, when they frequently disagree: including on fanservice. As for me, I've only mentioned fanservice a couple of times in my reviews before this one. Both were negative but that was because the characters were underage and I thought it tainted otherwise innocent, child-friendly shows. The Free! boys are at least designed to look like adults, with adult abs, even if they're teenagers. These characters were not. So again, I don't see what I specifically have done to be accused of a "double standard." I can't be responsible for other reviewers. |
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Rivailloli
 Posts: 562 Location: Virginia |
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Clearly, we are not reading the same doujins. There are plenty of doujins by women that literally just feature straight sex with no emphasis on feelings and there is also plenty of shotacon, BDSM, and rape-play drawn by women. Hell, plenty of official hentai artists are women and they draw some messed up stuff. There's also the popular Nitro+Chiral works that feature a lot of messed up content in a number of the routes available. There was even a thread where it came out that it was a woman who wrote/drew scenes for this H game and everyone was surprised it was a woman because the scene she wrote was so horrible, or something. That can be found here: animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-03-10/mangagamer-second-women-history-month-interview-talks-to-eroge-artist/.85802 Whether the uke ends up liking it or not does not play into how explicit the work is. That and there's plenty of hentai where the girls end up 'enjoying' their rape, that certainly does not make it any less explicit. Basically, both sexes produce and can enjoy messed up stuff. It is not limited to either one and arguing over it is rather pointless. |
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tygerchickchibi
 Posts: 1461 |
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I just wanted to come here because I was surprised that the music had such an average review. I thought it fit the series pretty well and it was extremely enjoyable.
On a side note, with the fanservice thing... Eh, it depends on the show...That's all I could really think of. |
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championferret
 Posts: 765 |
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So let me get this straight, Chrysostomus. You come in here complaining about an imaginary double standard when it comes to anime reviews on ANN (putting aside the fact that the reviews on ANN are not all done by one single person for a moment so a double standard could not logically exist in the first place), and then when I demonstrate the difference between the fanservice in Free and the fanservice that many object to, you come up with 'yeah but men and women like different things'. Leaving aside the fact that many others have chimed in to say this isn't really true (tons of women I know are complete perverts and tons of men heavily condemn trashy fanservice shows), is it really not that obvious to you that you dug yourself into a hole there? 'Yeah one of these things is clearly far worse and grosser than the other, but objecting to the clearly more extreme one of these things is a double standard'. Really?
Pages and pages into this thread and you have yet to bring up an actual example of this double standard in action besides Shokugeki no Souma, which - if I remember correctly - made some female reviewers uncomfortable because the fanservice had a weird domination angle to it (as well as just feeling plain unpalatable in a show about food but thats individual preference), but given that these were season previews - as in, the first episode and a first impression and not an entire review of an entire season of something, it's not a fair comparison for that reason alone. Instead, multiple people have given multiple examples of shows absolutely drenched in fanservice that are praised to heaven and back on ANN, notably Kill la Kill (which for the record features content that makes even the most risque scenes in Free look like a saturday morning children's show but anyway). You attempt to derail the discussion with YEAH BUT LOVE STAGE HAD RAPE!! which is not only false (I didn't realize that 'things that could potentially have happened but didn't' now count as 'things that actually really were depicted in the show') and not only has absolutely nothing to do with Free, but doesnt help the argument in any way whatsoever considering how widely criticized that scene was. (Several people actually almost dropped the show at that point). Now, you're still trying to prove that a double standard exists not with any concrete evidence but some bizarre hypothetical evidence: apparently a show with women prancing around half-naked ala in Free would be criticized. I dont even want to accept hypotheticals as actual debate material, but for the sake of argument: if this imaginary show was literally exactly the same thing as Free with reversed genders (as in, keeping all the things that arent fanservice in tacts, the same character dynamics and episode plots and story threads), it would probably receive the exact amount of praise Free! does...in fact theres a lot of shows like that that have reviews on ANN RIGHT NOW like this, most of which, like KlK, have far, far more pointless fanservice. (At most, it might receive a -little- less praise than the Free that exists in this reality because 'show about group of girls at school' is not exactly groundbreaking material when it comes to anime) This comment thread is for a review which, in pretty decent detail, goes into why Free is more than just a fanservice show for women, which should have prevented any arguments like this to begin with, but for all I know you just skimmed it for any negative reaction to the fanservice and then ran in here to complain about the evil ANN anti-fanservice agenda. It's only become more and more clear that you have no intention of having a reasonable debate so unless you have nothing constructive to add then neither do I. Then again, I don't know why I expected any constructive and legitimate argument from someone whose opening post talks about 'putting on feminism goggles'  , as though gross attitudes towards women is something people have to make some preparation to being offended by and that our default state should just be enjoying such things.
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Chrysostomus
Posts: 335 |
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SailorTralfamadore
Posts: 499 Location: Keep Austin Weeb |
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And you really can't understand why a feminist would have a different reaction to the Free! boys choosing to prance around half-naked, and non-consensual butt touching?
You really can't tell the difference there? |
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