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NEWS: No Winners Announced for 6th Kyoto Animation Awards


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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 2:39 pm Reply with quote
Ah, I see. That's just creating proof, and you'd otherwise surely lose in court.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11430
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 3:47 pm Reply with quote
Even the sealed postmarked envelope thing isn't perfect proof, since you could mail yourself an unsealed envelope with blank paper in it, hang on to it and then steal someone's idea a year later and seal it into that envelope. WGA or some other third party registry is really the best and easiest way to go.
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aiem



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 44
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:41 pm Reply with quote
Damn. This whole debacle has been pretty terrible. And here I thought ANN and its posters couldn't get any worse.

People screaming SCAM when a contest doesn't award a grand prize winner? If all entries are crap then I sure would do the same. If you're looking for quality works why would you be encouraging sub standard crap.

There's a reason why there's an honorable mention. That's the "consolation" prize you guys are asking for.

Spotlesseden wrote:
this is a scam, they stole Free! and made mass money, but we won't get you the gran prize money. "Even though we can't come up better idea for anime, but we still think your idea is horrible. We can only copy from others, we have no writer, but your idea is still bad. "


'Good artists copy; great artists steal' Steve Jobs


Have you read the original source material then? You'd be surprised how much difference they have from the show. They didn't discredit the author. Legal matters would have surfaced if that happened.

God the first pages were oozing of ignorance and self entitlement. And what's worse is that this still annoys me even though I'm weeks late.


Last edited by aiem on Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:13 pm Reply with quote
But it's been shown that the entries aren't crap when KyoAni is willing to spend a shitton of money on adapting them into anime, ones that were only given runner up or honorable mention prizes at best.

Essentially your positing that their way of thinking is: "YOUR WORK IS SHIT, now let's blow 150+k an episode on adapting this pile of shit that clearly does not deserve our prestigious 'We Are Better Than This' award." This would demonstrate that at least a few of the entries for the previous weren't crap, right? So why didn't those authors get the grand prize for their year?
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aiem



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:38 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
But it's been shown that the entries aren't crap when KyoAni is willing to spend a shitton of money on adapting them into anime, ones that were only given runner up or honorable mention prizes at best.

Essentially your positing that their way of thinking is: "YOUR WORK IS SHIT, now let's blow 150+k an episode on adapting this pile of shit that clearly does not deserve our prestigious 'We Are Better Than This' award." This would demonstrate that at least a few of the entries for the previous weren't crap, right? So why didn't those authors get the grand prize for their year?


The question is, HAVE YOU READ IT? Looks good on TV. In terms of literature itself can you judge it to be good and even up to that certain level as the ones coming from big LN publishers?

You'd be surprised how much changes they made to those recent adaptations you are talking about. And those are honorable mentions. Imagine those that didn't get the honorable mention.

Again put aside that notion of "IT"S ALL HUGE SCAM" for a second.

IIRC the first contest only listed the grand prize winners to be animated. That was the highest reward there. But since no works deserving won the title, they still animated one of the works which was Chuunibyou. It had a huge potential that's for sure and they altered the show in a different way that it's already a loosely adapted work. That in itself was probably KyoAni caving in and just saying they'll adapt an honorable mention for the sake of promoting their products/contest. If KyoAni scammed the author, why stop there and not discredit the author? Simple as that.

As time passes by they have changed the Grand Prize reward description. No longer does it say that it will be the one animated. They've changed the rules. Someone won the Grand Prize. Probably ANN staff missed that info for some convenient reason(Or regular posters here missed it. IDGAF which is which since everyone here seems to be running their mouths without having any clue of what they're saying).
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:49 pm Reply with quote
It seems like they get the best of all worlds by only giving out the lesser prizes the majority of the years. They get the IP to the work, they make it seem like people can win, and they don't have to award the biggest pot of money.
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aiem



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:02 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
It seems like they get the best of all worlds by only giving out the lesser prizes the majority of the years. They get the IP to the work, they make it seem like people can win, and they don't have to award the biggest pot of money.


Great. You just dodged my question. That's that then.

I don't even know how the hell I ended up in this forum again. It's really my fault for getting worked up by the huge surplus of ignorance in here.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:10 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
It seems like they get the best of all worlds by only giving out the lesser prizes the majority of the years. They get the IP to the work, they make it seem like people can win, and they don't have to award the biggest pot of money.

I believe that all the entries that have been animated also had the light novels published by KyoAni, correct? Chuunibyou, Kyoukai no Kanata, High Speed, am I missing anything? You gotta realize that for an author getting published is a pretty big deal in itself.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:11 am Reply with quote
I think I've mentioned it before, but there are a lot, and I mean a LOT, of screenwriting contests that are really disguised means of getting ideas from contestants, and I only enter screenwriting contests that say, in the rules, that any stories submitted will belong to me and me alone. Hollywood is a shark tank for this sort of thing, and many aspiring screenwriters get wrecked who are too naïve to not guard their scripts from other screenwriters. Or executives. Or producers. Or directors.

If Kyoto Animation doesn't have such clauses, or at least its double-opposite (that it will not produce any material that's too close to a non-winning entry, which is a much riskier thing to do), and Japanese copyright law is anything like American copyright law in terms of intellectual property, then it can set itself up for lawsuits, especially of honorable mention winners continue to not get paid (or otherwise compensated) for getting adapted.

aiem wrote:
People screaming SCAM when a contest doesn't award a grand prize winner? If all entries are crap then I sure would do the same. If you're looking for quality works why would you be encouraging sub standard crap.

There's a reason why there's an honorable mention. That's the "consolation" prize you guys are asking for.


An easy way to re-organize this contest is to award winners, give them prizes of some sort, and state that even they might not necessarily get their stories adapted. Thus, you have the best of both worlds: People can enter in hopes of getting that prize, and Kyoto Animation can adapt whatever they feel like.

The other thing was that nothing was given out to the honorable mention category. Hence, that, too, is pointless if it's not used for anything.

In any case, even if your contest rules state that they will not adapt anything that doesn't get at least an honorary mention, and every submitted story belong to the person who wrote it (or at least submitted it), I would rather enter a different contest that guarantees winners. At least there, I can feel like I'm not doing something pointless. You cannot forget that contests like these are under competition too, and it's a basic strategy to try for the low-hanging fruit.

Maybe it's a difference in values between Japan and the west. After all, The Incredibles had a mention from the main character of how culture continues to find ways "to celebrate mediocrity." The backlash was so harsh that Brad Bird made Ratatouille partially as an apology.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:53 am Reply with quote
aiem wrote:


Again put aside that notion of "IT"S ALL HUGE SCAM" for a second.



Any contest that keeps the rights of the artist's creations and doesn't award them anything, and then creates anime works of those creations is a scam.
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aiem



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 44
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:43 am Reply with quote
Alright. It's a boring day today. I have time to kill.

leafy sea dragon wrote:
I think I've mentioned it before, but there are a lot, and I mean a LOT, of screenwriting contests that are really disguised means of getting ideas from contestants, and I only enter screenwriting contests that say, in the rules, that any stories submitted will belong to me and me alone. Hollywood is a shark tank for this sort of thing, and many aspiring screenwriters get wrecked who are too naïve to not guard their scripts from other screenwriters. Or executives. Or producers. Or directors.


Yes you've mentioned it before and it's not doing much to prove that this is a scam.

leafy sea dragon wrote:

If Kyoto Animation doesn't have such clauses, or at least its double-opposite (that it will not produce any material that's too close to a non-winning entry, which is a much riskier thing to do), and Japanese copyright law is anything like American copyright law in terms of intellectual property, then it can set itself up for lawsuits, especially of honorable mention winners continue to not get paid (or otherwise compensated) for getting adapted.


They have made 3 adaptations of Honorable mentions. By this time, IF indeed they didn't pay them anything LIKE you are implying then those authors are downright stupid for letting this go. Nothing has happened so far so I guess we can say they've come to terms with this?

I get the feeling that the one who pointed out the guidelines got ignored on purpose. If indeed they follow the guidelines, they certainly would follow that part of the part where it says that royalties are given whenever merchandises are made.

leafy sea dragon wrote:

An easy way to re-organize this contest is to award winners, give them prizes of some sort, and state that even they might not necessarily get their stories adapted. Thus, you have the best of both worlds: People can enter in hopes of getting that prize, and Kyoto Animation can adapt whatever they feel like.


Proof?

leafy sea dragon wrote:

The other thing was that nothing was given out to the honorable mention category. Hence, that, too, is pointless if it's not used for anything.


Again. Proof?

leafy sea dragon wrote:

In any case, even if your contest rules state that they will not adapt anything that doesn't get at least an honorary mention, and every submitted story belong to the person who wrote it (or at least submitted it), I would rather enter a different contest that guarantees winners. At least there, I can feel like I'm not doing something pointless. You cannot forget that contests like these are under competition too, and it's a basic strategy to try for the low-hanging fruit.


That's self entitlement on your part. Legalities aside, it's the same reason why I really don't like contests where there are barely any acceptable contestants. At the end of the day someone wins because they're the best of the whole mediocre exhibit. The whole thing becomes SO lackluster and ends up somewhat, a joke.

Looking back at how only 1 has ever won the grand prize, I think it's safe to say that the contest strictly only awards those that pass their standard. Whenever you award something just by default and not because they're really good and can stand on their own, you have a problem there. The moment you hand a prize to such standard then you're pretty much going to attract the same damn thing. Or at least give people an estimation of what your standards are.

leafy sea dragon wrote:

Maybe it's a difference in values between Japan and the west. After all, The Incredibles had a mention from the main character of how culture continues to find ways "to celebrate mediocrity." The backlash was so harsh that Brad Bird made Ratatouille partially as an apology.


To embrace mediocrity in a contest, is for the judges to decide. Not you.

TarsTarkas wrote:
aiem wrote:


Again put aside that notion of "IT"S ALL HUGE SCAM" for a second.



Any contest that keeps the rights of the artist's creations and doesn't award them anything, and then creates anime works of those creations is a scam.


You posted in this thread way earlier than me and you seem to be oblivious to the discussion. Congratulations. Both of you just cherry picked merrily. Continuously saying things without any sort of information to back it off.

Half of the posts here make it seem that KyoAni is a rising mafia. I nearly mistook this thread as a common thread on a certain infamous board that likes to pull things out of thin air.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:52 pm Reply with quote
Well, consider that Hollywood already is a cartel of sorts, and we can easily extend it to entertainment industries of other countries. It also means we do not have much trust in entertainment companies, particularly at the executive and producer levels.

Also, how am I supposed to prove a proposal?

By the way, if Kyoto Animation keeps the rights of all entries, then that prevents the people who submit the stories from submitting them to another contest.

Something I would like to see is them putting up the top 10 entries, or at least their titles and the contestants' names anyway, and showing what the judges' scores or evaluations are. That way, we could see where the line they draw is.

aiem wrote:
They have made 3 adaptations of Honorable mentions. By this time, IF indeed they didn't pay them anything LIKE you are implying then those authors are downright stupid for letting this go. Nothing has happened so far so I guess we can say they've come to terms with this?

I get the feeling that the one who pointed out the guidelines got ignored on purpose. If indeed they follow the guidelines, they certainly would follow that part of the part where it says that royalties are given whenever merchandises are made.


Maybe they ARE stupid. And if there's no merchandise to be made (which is unlikely, but possible), then they get nothing. Royalties ought to be given to the show itself, as the show must be made before merchandising can even be considered. And depending on how the contract was made, the winners of the honorable mention category could still receive nothing. (For instance, the contract can say that the author gets royalties for "A," but if Kyoto Animation changes the name to "B," they do not have to pay.)

I'm basing this on the horror stories I hear about in Hollywood. I worked with an executive before, and he explained to me all sorts of tricks to weasel and loophole people out of the money they're supposed to have earned. (It disgusts me so much that I would prefer not to share them with anyone who might actually use them.) As a result, it is difficult for me to trust any company that produces TV shows or movies.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:52 pm Reply with quote
@aiem
If they had more restricted criteria for entries, they could enforce better quality in the final contestants.

But besides that, they simply shouldn't claim the rights to the animation entries, if they are not going to award prizes for them, and especially if they make money off them.

It is not a mafia thing, it is simply taking advantage of young creators, just like a lot of other businesses do. The "Silicon Valley" HBO TV series had a nice example of that type of sly business villainy.
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:51 pm Reply with quote
Also, there's that loophole 20th Century Fox abused when making Life of Pi to avoid having to pay Rhythm & Hues for their VFX work, bankrupting the VFX company.
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nobahn
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:29 pm Reply with quote
^
May I trouble you for a link? Thanks!
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