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The Most (And Least) Relatable Gundam Heroes


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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6030
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:01 am Reply with quote
Angel'sArcanum wrote:


So one time Heero thought Relena was a bystander who MAY report him to OZ but instead just wanted to befriend him and understand his goals and he should try to kill her time and again?


The existence of the Gundams and even their pilot's identities were supposed to be a secret to anyone outside of the Colonies hence the whole "Relena has to killed thing that cropped up a few times in the first part of the series". Was it overkill? Maybe but it wasn't without it's reasons.

Angel'sArcanum wrote:
Relena was kind of forced to become a figurehead for OZ, but she was trying to change them from within, knowing Relena she wouldn't have wanted anyone to die but good ol' Heero is all "Harumph! She's part of OZ now! Must kill people in OZ!"



Even if she was forced into joining them and also of the mind of changing them from within that doesn't exactly erase all the bad things Oz had did up to that point which included murdering her adopted father and killing the more pacifist leaders of the Alliance.


Angel'sArcanum wrote:

I'd compromise with you if it was just that one instance Heero didn't know about Relena and tried to safeguard Operation Meteor's identity, but he does it constantly because he's jaded.


By my count it was only 4 attempts and in at least two of those 4 she was willing to let Heero kill her who backed off in both those attempts.

Angel'sArcanum wrote:

Again, at the end of the day they are villains, saying they are "[MORE] noble" doesn't make them out to be perfectly just. Meanwhile there's the "heroes": Wufei who angrily just went around killing (mostly) enemy troops saying they were "weak" and to prove his own strength, just kind of roundaboutly achieving the neutralization of war with the other pilots by killing a lot of people, peace didn't really seem to be on his mind. Duo, who is at least an honest soldier and acknowledges that his fate to be a 'God of Death' and kill people for the end goal of peace mostly loafs off and forgets his purpose in the latter half, and Heero, who as I mentioned just kind of gets caught up in the fighting like Wufei, occasionally casting his sights on Relena and just gets in the middle of battles with peace as an afterthought. The whole Zero system bullcrap made for a lot of contrived drama that warped things in the back half, but Heero was still kind of an ignorant jerk besides that. There's also Quattre's nihilist stint where he was trying to deal with the fact that most people won't understand the Gundam pilots' actions until once everything is settled as the media kind of pins them as evil and some of his deeds get met with scorn, but he at least was fixated on his original goal and was lead astray by the hope being sucked out of him, that was an actually interesting part of the series. Then Trowa had brief amnesia where he couldn't really help not getting into battle and forgetting what his mission was.


Can't disagree with practically any of those quibbles the 2nd half of Gundam Wing was really weird for almost everyone involved.
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:15 am Reply with quote
None of the Gundam pilots stuck out to me as very relatable, but if I had to pick the one I found most relatable, it would probably Setsuna, as he is introverted and a man of few words like myself (though not online admittedly). I do have some affinity with Amuro and Kamille being fellow engineers but otherwise not really. Mikazuki is probably most unrelatable to me, not because of his seeming emotionlessness (see Setsuna) but rather his lack of hesitation to kill whoever Orga says to. Scary.

On the matter of Coordinators, I think her referring to it as the SEED equivalent of Newtypes is reasonable enough. However, if you want to get pedantic (and I do), the best analogue in UC to Coordinators is Cyber Newtypes, as both are artificially created. As to Kira, I've always preferred his twin sister Cagalli, but that has naught to do with relatability Wink . While I don't think Destiny was a great or even necessarily a good Gundam series, I hardly think it is the worst. Admittedly I was most spurred to watch it for Lunamaria Hawke, and not for her personality, cause if you asked, I'm not confident I could describe it (lest you think this is due to memory fading, I could easily describe the personality of another one of my waifus from around the time I watched Destiny, Haruhi, but then again who couldn't?). To me, G-Wrecko and F91 were far more a mess than Destiny ever was, though the latter was mostly due to the horrendous editing.

I'm willing to be a bit more lenient than the meme that residentgrigo posted earlier when it comes to people calling themselves fans of the franchise. If you can name one other Gundam series than Seed, 00 and Wing, we're square. Though if you can't get that gimme, I have to doubt your deductive abilities. Nevermind that naming other Gundam series is trivially easy with an internet connection. Btw that Kamille one underneath it was great Laughing

While I understand it, I could do without prodigies being so flippantly written off as unrelatable. Of course, they aren't relatable to most people, but that doesn't mean there aren't people who find them even a little relatable. Not saying I'm a genius or a prodigy or anything (there were enough people smarter than me in high school, college, and in general that I can't call myself that with a straight face) but I have found some, not all, relatable to some degree. Now if you add in great at sports and with the opposite sex, well yeah you do start to lose me there. No one's that perfect, I hope.


Last edited by zrnzle500 on Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Kikaioh



Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 1205
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:06 am Reply with quote
I just wanted to respond that I agree about Domon and Kamille. Kamille's character in particular is why I never finished Zeta Gundam, because he wasn't just annoying, but his motivations sometimes seemed confused/baffling. And Domon is just awesome, really encapsulating a sort of Go Nagai badass spirit but filtered through 90's charming sensibilities. G Gundam also introduced the coolest female protagonist with Allenby (just sayin'!)

As for Heero, I thought his character was hilariously awesome. In the first episode, when faced with Releena's teenage pretension, his reaction to outright reject her extended olive branch and then threaten to kill her, that was campy gold. It's just too bad the plot kind of lost steam/direction halfway through.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8467
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:20 am Reply with quote
residentgrigo wrote:

@penguin Seabook has fans, interesting.


I never said I was a fan, just that he's relatable. Relatability doesn't necessarily equate to whether a character is interesting or not.

Domon Kasshu is a nigh-superpowered martial artist. He's an interesting character, too. But is he relatable? Of course not. I can't relate to a guy that strong. Maybe his goals are relatable to some extent, but is he a relatable person overall? No.

I loathe Kou Uraki for being a huge loser, but he's imminently relatable, because I fail at a lot of things too (I just don't want to watch a show about a failure unless it's framed a certain way). He's relatable, but he's a terrible character I have no interest in.

Kira Yamato is both extremely unrelatable because he's a blank slate and a super-ultra-mega-modified human being and deity-like figure AND he's totally boring and has no flavor to him.

This wasn't a list about LIKABLE Gundam characters. It wasn't a list of BEST Gundam characters. It said "most relatable". I relate (at least nominally) to just ordinary people. But that doesn't mean I like them.
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KML777



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 47
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:01 am Reply with quote
Has Ms. Orsini ever done a list of likable/unlikable Gundam Love Interests yet?
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dark13



Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 562
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:08 am Reply with quote
H. Guderian wrote:
As to the person that mentioned Mikazuki, I think he's unrelatable on purpose. When I watched IBO I had a good sense Orga was always a bit afraid of the guy. Even his best friend in the show can't relate to him. Think he's unrelatable on purpose.
Its really sad when only one person from this Gundam Fandom understand what Mikazuki is meant to be, he was never meant to be relatable, his a war orphan first and for most who enjoys fighting ( even the rest of his brothers in arm can see that) but some individuals here can't see that or chose not to see it,the fact you understand that gives me some hope from the world.
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:46 am Reply with quote
^Don't confuse not understanding he's supposed to be unrelatable and finding him unrelatable. Certainly, that doesn't make him a bad character, something I never said. But people finding him unrelatable when he is meant to be unrelatable seems like mission accomplished. How sad that we had the intended response. Personally I think finding a character unrelatable a valid reason to call them unrelatable.
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Merxamers



Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 720
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:52 am Reply with quote
I've only seen the original Gundam compilation movies and the Turn A series, unfortunately, so i don't know much about whatever SEED is Razz

I find Amuro to be pretty relatable; people honestly complain about him? He's a friggin teenager forced to be a soldier! He holds up better than i would, honestly.

As much as I like him, unlike other people here I have difficulty relating to Loran. One of the things I like about Turn A Gundam is how hard it commits to its theme of pacifism, but that means Loran is basically space-Gandhi. His attitude, while coming from a well written character and story, is a bit too simplistic for me to relate to. That, and spoiler[his giving up everything to be the incognito moon queen's servant at the end] didn't sit right with me.
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stowrag



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 47
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:11 am Reply with quote
To be honest, I expected to disagree with this list the moment I read the article title. And I did!

Putting aside all the other changes I'd make, I'd like to see Domon swapped for Loran. Just thought I'd put that out there.
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dark13



Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 562
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:44 am Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:
^Don't confuse not understanding he's supposed to be unrelatable and finding him unrelatable. Certainly, that doesn't make him a bad character, something I never said. But people finding him unrelatable when he is meant to be unrelatable seems like mission accomplished. How sad that we had the intended response. Personally I think finding a character unrelatable a valid reason to call them unrelatable.
I'm not disagreeing with what you said, in fact I quite agree with you, no see I'm talking about the people who somehow magically take the term "unrelatable" and have it = bad character, which I find completely stupid, its almost as bad as what Alex Jones says.

https://youtu.be/ZuMNZZmImeA?t=117
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:36 am Reply with quote
^Well from the way you phrased it, it seemed like you were condemning everyone who found him unrelatable. I seemed to have honed in on your true concern nonetheless. Certainly one shouldn't automatically equate unrelatable and bad, but not all of those who have called him unrelatable here said he was a bad character. And those who thought he was a bad character didn't do so because he was unrelatable. They thought he was bad for the same reason they found him unrelatable, i.e. he is a unhesitating killing machine (Feel free to correct me if I am incorrect in my assumption, those it may concern).
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dark13



Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 562
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:40 am Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:
^Well from the way you phrased it, it seemed like you were condemning everyone who found him unrelatable. I seemed to have honed in on your true concern nonetheless. Certainly one shouldn't automatically equate unrelatable and bad, but not all of those who have called him unrelatable here said he was a bad character. And those who thought he was a bad character didn't do so because he was unrelatable. They thought he was bad for the same reason they found him unrelatable, i.e. he is a unhesitating killing machine (Feel free to correct me if I am incorrect in my assumption, those it may concern).
Nope you are correct in that assumption, they don't like Mikazuki because he can kill people, but those people have to realize at the end of the day............his a child soldier who grew up with the mind set of killing, its what those guys at CGS train him to do, ( thats assuming on my part) I feel as tho the only people that can really relate to Mikazuki, are people who were ex-child soldiers, and who have been through hell to get a normal life again, at least thats from my point of view. Wink
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Ziko577



Joined: 21 May 2014
Posts: 136
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:19 pm Reply with quote
CaRoss wrote:
This was an interesting list, with a lot of well thought out explanations.

For me personally, I find a lot more of the side-character pilots more relatable than the heroes. Though there are a couple of the heroes that I do root for completely (such as the aforementioned Sei, as well as Turn A Gundam's Loran).

That said, here's my list of most relatable and least relatable.

Relatable (in no order):

1. Athrun Zala: While Seed is given a lot of flack, and I do mean a lot, there are most definitely some bright spots and Athrun drives most, if not all, of them. His position on the Zaft side, and his role as the deuteraginist, helped give him more chances to stand above and beyond many of the other characters, but it was his personality, and his desire to do what was right for his people (which drives him through both Seed and Destiny) was wonderful and made him the hero to root for throughout both series.

2. Allelujah Haptism: I'll get this out of the way now, but I really like the pilots of many of the transforming mobile suits. As a fan of Macross (I do rank that franchise a little higher than Gundam when it comes to mecha series) this alone can invest me in a character. Allelujah's background, and entire character arc over the course of 00, however, is what really appeals and makes him relatable; spoiler[ as does his relationship with another super soldier-esque candidate and the ending to their story as they leave to find their place in the world.]

3. Loran Cehack: When I started Turn A Gundam, I didn't really expect much from Loran, but over the course of the series, he grew on me and really proved to be a relatable protagonist. Torn between his feelings for both the world he came from and the one he was adopted into, his actions throughout make it very hard not to root for him.


Least Relatable:

1. Shinn Asuka: While I can understand the distaste leveled at Kira, and Kamille, no one, and I mean no one, has turned out to be a worse, less relatable, protagonist than Destiny's Shinn. Despite having valid reasons to be angsty and frustrated with life, his actions from the start of the series, up until the last few episodes (where they do a half-hearted job of trying to "redeem" him) are horrible and go beyond just someone lashing out. He's practically a megalomaniac all on his own.

2. Mikazuki Augus: As this whole thing is about relatable and least relatable, I thought I'd include Mikazuki on here. Despite greatly enjoying Iron-Blooded Orphans, there's something about the series protagonist that just doesn't click and make him relatable. He's not an atrocity of a character like Shinn is (far, far from it), but he doesn't have the traits that have made other heroes/pilots in the franchise relatable to me.


I can tell you what's wrong with Augus. He's essentially an emotionally damaged young boy who really can ruin anyone's day at the drop of a hat. In battle, he carries that to dangerous extremes to the point when he fought Carta's army on the way to the capital, he thought very little about slaughtering her and her soldiers and even when she was pretty much wounded and couldn't battle anymore, he continued to go after her. Granted, there's moments of clarity here and there when he shared a kiss with Kudelia and even giving her a shoulder to cry on when Fumitan died but that's rare with him. Who knows what more we could see of him when Season 2 begins? For right now, definitely not a good character to relate to.
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Ziko577



Joined: 21 May 2014
Posts: 136
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:25 pm Reply with quote
Panon wrote:
Quote:
a Coordinator, the Gundam Seed universe's word for Newtype


Coordinator isn't the Seed universes word for Newtype.

Kira is also a Newtype, in addition to being a Coordinator!


Coordinators are just humans with genetic modifications and most are grown in test tubes. SEED factor is the term in that universe for Newtypes.
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2234
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:29 pm Reply with quote
KML777 wrote:
Has Ms. Orsini ever done a list of likable/unlikable Gundam Love Interests yet?


Man, that would be a list miles long. I don't know why, but Gundam has had a TERRIBLE track record when it comes to women. They tend to be helpless, naive, manipulative, childish, or harpies when they aren't relegated to the background. There are some exceptions like Rain and Allenby in G-Gundam, Ennil in Gundam X, and Aina in 08th MS Team. IBO is also being a lot more even-handed with women by giving them a more active role.

As for protagonists, I can't really argue with the top list, even if Sei is sort of a winner by default due to his unique position among Gundam protagonists. It's a tough call for me to pick a favorite between Domon, Shiro, and Garrod as they bring unique traits to the table. Though I will have to say Garrod is definitely the dark horse due to not having any special training military or otherwise, no special talents (he makes an offhand remark about having picked up his father's knack for mechanics, but that's never brought up again), and certainly doesn't have Newtype powers. All he's got is guts, hard work, and a whole lotta moxie. As well the Jamil-patented frozen lake test.

Next up I recommend Top Five Antagonists and Top Five Mentors.
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