Forum - View topicNEWS: Library Bars 43-Year-Old from Manga Club Meeting
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Moomintroll
 Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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Civil rights are worth protecting. Injured pride isn't - at least not when it would result in money being taken out of a public service (e.g. libraries). My understanding is that the man is considering legal action not because he was not allowed to attend a meeting intended (though seemingly not advertised) for teenagers but, rather, because the staff were rude to him. Of course, without knowing precisely what was said to him by the staff, it's difficult to know how seriously to take his outrage but regardless of what it was, how does taking money away from the library service help redress anything? The man deserves an apology - he does not deserve a big bag full of the local community's tax money. Mind you, I have just accepted a part-time library job to supplement my freelance work so I may be slightly biased. 
Age discrimination is quite distinct from racial or religious discrimination. We forbid children from working, from voting, from smoking, from drinking, from joining the army, from marrying and so on and so forth. We forbid adults from becoming members (as opposed to supervisors) of organisations designed for children such as the Scouts or from attending children's schools as pupils. And we give adults special priviledges or restrictions once they reach certain ages - like allowing them state pensions or prohibiting them from joining the police force as new recruits for example. All these things are discriminatory and they're all based on age. Do you think they're all infringements of civil liberties? Age discrimination of the type you're refering to applies to employment law but not to much else - idealism does not trump common sense. ---
Nowhere in that article does it suggest that the man was barred on the basis that he was suspected of being a child molestor. You're all jumping to conclusions. |
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Batman3777
 Posts: 160 Location: Down the Shore, NJ |
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The Library DID NOT MARK the club as "teens only" so he had no way of knowing the target age group until he got there with his collection in tow. That's the core problem. As someone else already wrote here, if the library had profusely apologized for their error and had been nice about it, this guy would probably not feel alienated enough to CONSIDER (he has not actually filed yet) a lawsuit, which he could easily win. And really, adults and teens interact just fine, or at least sans weirdness, 95% of the time, maybe even more. The news only talks about the 5% or less of intereactions that don't go well. After all, peace and harmony don't sell newspapers or airtime, do they? |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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With the same mind that assuming Kodomo no Jikan readers will become child molesters.  
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la_contessa
Posts: 200 Location: Pennsylvania |
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Although I'm sure there are some sketchy people out there who would go to a teens-only event (or even a general anime club, on the assumption there would be teens there) and try to hit on teenagers, not everyone would act like that. It's not my library, so that library can pick whatever policy it wants, but I would have something more akin to a one-strike policy. Anyone can come, but if they act up (either being sleazy with younger kids, being loud or obnoxious, whatever), they can't come back.
On the subject of lawsuits--it's a complete waste of money. Seriously. Age discrimination gets rational basis review, which means ANY CONCEIVABLE rational basis. Providing a safe place for children is a well-established rational basis, and I doubt the fact that not all older anime fans are pervs will sway the court as long as the library can show that children can be targets in any sort of club gathering. There would be an issue of, why didn't they advertise it as teens-only? that won't go over well, but if the library can show it honestly thought that only teens would respond, the court will probably just tell it to get better advertising. As for equal protection, there is again a well-established reason for distinguishing between the two groups of "teens" and "adults": they are not similarly situated, and can therefore legally be treated differently. Just because there is a "right" to sue, it doesn't mean that the court is the BEST solution. There are others that take significantly less time, effort, and money. |
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VORTIA
 SubscriberPosts: 942 |
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Well, I think I'll drop in my two cents on this.
I'm 26, married, and wear a CHP issue moustache. While I may not be that old, already, I feel like I'm being pushed away from anime fandom because I'm not a teenager. It's difficult, because when I was younger, there was so many more outlets to meet and hang out with people who enjoyed the same interests. Now, it's far more difficult. Back when I was younger and first started going to anime conventions, they had a very inclusive, "one big tent" atmosphere. We were all Otaku, one big family, and we supported each other and laughed with each other even if I was there to cosplay and buy CLAMP merchandise and you were there to watch all of Fist of the North Star. There were people there of all ages, all backgrounds, and you never heard an ill word against anyone. Now, the number of people between the ages of 13-19 attending anime conventions has shot up dramatically. This in and of itself doesn't bother me, because it means that anime fandom is on the rise. Unfortunately, we've seen anime fandom fragment and "click" up. You've got your Yaoi fangirls, your Narutards, your casual "I only like dark, serious anime" types, and they don't even really interact with one another, and that's so sad to me, and what's more, they hate on each other. Whilst I don't think suing the public library is a good way to go about this. This man probably was just looking to talk to another person about anime...any person, of any age, because he was excited by the potential to interact with other fans. I know the feeling. It can be disappointing being limited to having to sift through all the haters, ravers and lamers on message boards in a vain attempt to hold an intelligent conversation. I can't blame him for trying. As for the kids (and I do mean kids. I stuggle to believe that if you were old enough to remember the birth of anime fandom in this country you'd say what you've said) that are saying "ewww, pedo, get away from the kids!" What the hell? So the guy is 40 and an anime fan. That doesn't automatically make him a pedophile. All you're doing is stereotyping, like assuming some kid's a criminal because he sags his pants. Don't be like that, be better than that. Everyone deserves a chance. Chances are, someday, you'll be 40 and an anime fan. Hopefully, the anime fans of that day and age will have learned to think better of others than you. |
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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I agree with la_contessa. The library needed to have better advertisement. Providing teens with a safe and productive environment overrides any perceived civil rights grievance.
That adult can start a manga club of his own or join an age appropriate manga club. Edit: Bluffton, S.C is a small town. This guy is toast now anyways. Last edited by hikaru004 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Please install/equip/hire
in every library. I'm sure they'll be a lot more safer than they are today. |
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hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
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Well schools have metal detectors and security guards now. It's only a matter of time for the libraries.
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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Another older anime/manga fan here, in my 40s. I get the "Older fans are creepy" vibe a fair amount. From older adults.
Any younger people I've met, they think it's cool. My nieces and nephews love talking to their aunt because she gets as enthusiastic about Fruits Basket and Bleach as they do. (They especially love it at Christmas time since I know what the best presents are.) I think it's just that superiority complex that some adults have because they put away their "toys" and read / participate in / watch only things that "better" them (it doesn't seem to work, but we'll keep that a secret ).
I do think my reception would be worse if I were male. I'm not very threatening-looking, so most people probably just think I'm some wacky old lady. |
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kgw
 Posts: 1084 Location: Spain, EU |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Already in the manga section.
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hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
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Besides, the original article mentioned that a flyer was in circulation that said that it was a "teen only" event. It was just rotten luck that CJ Palmer saw the other flyer. So, in that case, the library was still within their rights to tell him to shove off nicely.
Edit: The original article also stated that they run a series of clubs and programs for children and teens. I say we need more info on CJ Palmer. I mean if he was a resident for a while then he would know this type of info or at least ask first not just show up at the library's door and get worked up when he was turned away. I also agree with the library director in that this is getting overblown. Last edited by hikaru004 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:40 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Murasakisuishou
 Posts: 1469 Location: NE Ohio |
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I've never understood society's obsession with separating teenagers and adults. One of the reasons I love the internet is that I can meet and talk to people who are older than I am and learn things from them, or hear more grown up perspectives on issues. Most of my online friends are at least five years older than I am. It's good for kids (especially teenagers) to interact with older people besides their parents; it expands one's worldview and helps one at that age figure out that they don't know everything. Besides, if this guy was going to expose them to more of the classic stuff and less FMA, Naruto, and Death Note (I'm assuming based on how my anime club was), more power to him.
Now, I don't necessarily think this merits a lawsuit, but I'll leave that argument to someone else 
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hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
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The only investigation that this merits is a background check on C.J. Palmer. I'm betting he's not a resident there for very long. It's a town of close to 2,000 residents.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Your attitude reminds me several cases of online shopping websites mislabeled their price tags (e.g. a brand new printer for less than $10). In the online shopping cases they can provide a full refund so (almost) no harm is done, but in this library case Mr. Palmer might have to schedule his activities so he could have two hours of free time, plus the transportation costs. Is it fair if the library just said "It's just your bad day. Now buzz off."? If so, every shopping center can use the same tactic to attract customers with some great deals, then tell customers those have been "sold out/mislabeled, sorry, but you can now take your time to browse our other fine products..."
Good Lord. A man has to pass a background check just because he wants to share his experiences on manga?! So perspective participants of manga clubs have to obtain a license, passport, or a "no criminal record" certificate? Maybe ANN should start background checks on its users in order to exclude spammers, trolls, DQN, -tards, and other not-so-nice people. Starting from you. Sure you won't refuse such a proposal, will you? |
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