Forum - View topicCasshern Sins (TV).
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Ausdoerrt
 Posts: 481 |
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^ It was fully explained. You should rewatch the last few eps again.
spoiler[1. Luna survived because she sacrificed the world, basically. She healed, but produced the Ruin instead. Her view of life did change quite a lot though. 2. The robot kids were from before the Ruin. The ruin didn't stop, it instead became a concept of "Death" for the robots.] |
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tarheel91
 Posts: 128 |
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I was responding to your whole "Casshern never fulfilled his obective!" statement. I felt that showed a very poor understanding of the show. The fight with Dio has some very heavy stuff to address. It wasn't just a fight. spoiler[Dio lives by chasing after Casshern. Casshern wants to help him live, but by avoiding him, he's rendering Dio's life pointless, and in fighting him, he'll kill him. Dio has to explain this, and Casshern must realize it and then decide what course of action to take (obviously to fight him). However, I think we can both agree Dio is a man of action, rather than words, and much of this communication comes through in their battle. It's not just some action scene. It has a purpose. It also reinforces his position as THE God of Death. No one can stand up to him.] |
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Ausdoerrt
Posts: 481 |
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^ Well, should've read the rest of the post.
While fight with Dio does hold some meaning, Dio, by constantly chasing the same objective (with same script lines, too), comes off as very static, and the final fight as a cheesy showdown. I'm not denying that there's some intent behind it, I'm just saying that it could've been handled better. I'm a nitpicky bastard, whaddya know 
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Mike On Top
 Posts: 298 |
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Sorry, but Dio has a great deal of meaning. First of all, he is the only character giving us a clear idea of what was Casshern before killing Luna -spoiler[ a high-tech robot, programmed to kill everything living - and second,] how Casshern begins to differ from his own old self, spoiler[he eventually happens to fight to death]. It is one of the major contributions in Casshern's character development and the story, because later Casshern will make the crucial decision spoiler[of not killing Luna and negates the total destruction she and he could bring to the world again, where robots and humans could actually live and die peacefully without fear].
I don't find the animation being average for a single moment and I will remain entitled to my opinion for this one. The animation is vivid and stunningly beautiful - the quality and the play of backgrounds, foregrounds, and lighting were awesome, and the whole stylization was freaking intelligently done. |
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Ausdoerrt
Posts: 481 |
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Ehh, I wrote a long response, and then it got lost because my PC crashed.
Anyway, in short, anything that you said Dio meant, Mike, could've been gathered from Cassehern's travels already (him going berserk, flashbacks etc), and one doesn't always need an antagonist to make a point. I think the series would've been better had it continued to be a "Kino's journey"-like experience that it seemed to be in the first 10 episodes or so. Animation, like I said, was good but had some pretty big flaws if you're nitpicky. I, for one thing, don't like stylization if it's not consistent throughout the series. Add the rehashing of fighting animations, and there you have the moments that I described as "below average". |
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rti9
 Posts: 1241 |
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It's always great when someone posts honest and thoughtful criticism and not just juvenile "I didn't like it because it's bad". I thought that the point of view of Ausdoerrt and Wellness were very interesting because it was almost the opposite of mine regarding the story. I much preferred the second half (more art house as Wellness pointed out) and absolutely loved the ending. I can't help but respect directors working alongside Madhouse who have the guts to experiment and try to bring something new. Maybe I just prefer open endings.
spoiler[I loved how the story builds this angelic-martyr image of Luna, but when we meet her... wow. Casshern is depicted as this noble hero throughout the series, but when he meets her he can't help but feel a deep rage for her. Wow.] Meaning to the story is personal interpretation. Pointing out that "clearly this meant that" is futile. Only the director can declare what he was trying to communicate. Many times, it is much more interesting to hear and share our very own interpretations. Not as absolute truth, just different perspectives. Despite liking the animation as a whole, I totally agree with Ausdoerrt regarding the fights. They could've been more exciting. A similar style that kept popping in my mind while I watched Casshern Sins were the battles in Mahoromatic that showed Mahoro's past when she was still a battle android. Madhouse is an extremely efficient studio that maintains very high standards of animation, yet I prefer Gainax in these key moments. |
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Ausdoerrt
Posts: 481 |
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Well, it's kind of the point of discussion threads to share opinions and interpretations  So yeah.
As for the ending, the plot twist about Luna was certainly a very cool idea, but it didn't really fit into the story and style that the first half of the series adopted. Had they been two different stories, maybe I would've liked them better. Still, the series IS way above average, at least because it adopted a setting and used thematics rarely seen in anime in recent years. It's still a good PA title with lots of interesting philosophical discussion going on, even if it's a bit simplistic. |
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tarheel91
Posts: 128 |
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I don't really know what's spoiler and what's not, so I'm just going to spoiler the whole thing: spoiler[Dio is also a perfect foil for Casshern. We not only see Casshern develop thanks to Dio (I don't think most of that could have been forced without someone as strong as Dio and as persistent as Dio; Casshern would've kept avoiding the issue if it were someone of a lesser caliber), but we also see what Casshern was supposed to be. The human-like qualities he takes on throughout the show would have much less impact unless we had Dio to compare Casshern to.] |
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Ausdoerrt
Posts: 481 |
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^ Just like I said, most of that was already seen in flashbacks and stuff, and we had Luna's former guard. It's not like Dio was needed to presuade Cassehern against killing - that happened way before the deciding fight anyway. It's not that Dio's useless, but eather static himself for the amount of screentime he gets. I also do find the idea of the "evil twin" incredibly cliche.
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rainbowcourage
 Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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Yeah, so I know necro-posting is bad, but seeing as Funimation has just put up the first two episodes subbed it seems silly to start a new thread.
I just wanted to discuss the ending a little more because this thread gave me some clarification, but not on everything. And wow was that an ending which deserves a lot of discussion. Kudos to whoever figured out spoiler[Ringo is Leda's daughter. I'm not sure I would have picked that up on my own, though I knew it from spoilers before watching the series. Does that make Dio...her father?! Probably not since he asked Leda if she "still wanted that," so I'm thinking Leda was pregnant (as we're shown in the flashback) but Ringo was taken away and she was told the baby died. That was so sad when she realized who Ringo was, and realized her daughter saw her looking ugly, which was her greatest fear. And now for the cycle of events... So what the hell. I'm trying to figure this out. Luna kept saying she began as death (I murdered every day) which makes it seem as though when Casshern killed her he took on the role of death, and Luna became eternal life. The blood of her as "death" spread the ruin throughout the world. Now that makes sense, as would Braking Boss' motivation in killing her--he wanted to stop death, that was his sin, messing with nature. Going by this theory, the ending makes sense. They can't stop the ruin, but Luna can keep granting life, and Casshern atones for his sin by relinquishing the humanity he's gained and becoming a beast who grants death. They "manually" restore the balance of life and death while they await Ringo's generation (though I'm not sure how those robots who live and die are going to be born, but Ringo seems to think they're coming...) But then there are the lines which don't make sense--the bit about Casshern and Luna spreading the ruin because the blood of life and death mingled, and Braiking Boss wanting to kill Luna because she was granting humans eternal life, which he thought was disgusting. Braiking Boss' motive makes sense if you think of it as Luna could only grant death to robots (in a sense she was the ruin), therefore protecting the humans whose technology had advanced to the point where they were immortal. Braiking Boss was jealous of this and thought robots should be superior, so he sought to do away with robots' "death." Then there's still the first comment to address, about Luna and Casshern. If you think of Luna as death before Casshern killed her, then Casshern could only have represented life--which fits in with Luna's comments about how "beautiful" he looked when he killed her, and how he isn't the same anymore because he's immortal and not truly living. It's strange, though. You'd think that by killing Luna again, the world would return to normal--she'd return life through her blood and become death once more. God, just such a conflicted ending. They spent all this time building up the cyclical nature of life and death only to have Casshern walk away from what felt like his destiny, give up everything he learned, and become the devil. ] So anyway that's my theory. It's still not all the way sound. Also the old OP sequence is awesome. Especially the part where Friender turns into an airplane. |
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Syntelle
 Posts: 14 Location: Raiding your fridge |
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Honestly, I just thought this series was really awesome. xD The fight scenes were animated so well it blew me away. The story is somewhere between decent and good for me. As for the music...it matched the dark atmosphere of the show well, but it seemed really plain. :S It sounds so similar to other OSTs that it might as well not be original at all.
Hmmm...the last thing I can say about this series is the intro and ending.  Sure, it wasn't really much of an animated masterpiece, but the drawings were pretty damn good. I really liked the song, too.  The endings are also favorable when I look back on them. Serene and calm music with some charming visuals and smooth animation. Not half bad if you ask me.
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