Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2009-04-03]
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apocalypticPOTATO
Posts: 11 |
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I'm sorry Brian, you had a decent act, but you're no James Quall.
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Thank you for including me in your biased, ignorant, and insulting remark, as I am a die-hard fan. I probably should have expected this, given the industry also calls me a pirate. I've had enough of this. The next time you want to make a remark like this: don't. Now that you've insulted me, I believe this gives me a privilege to fire back at you, hopefully destroying your ignorance in the process. I started watching Clannad on Anime Network's On Demand (ANOD) service. I managed to wait for a month to watch 5 episodes. After that, the wait was no longer tolerable. I got weak. I had to finish it. Then, I watched Clannad: After Story, which I didn't even know existed. Yesterday, I decided it was time to buy this series. I was ready to pay full price for this series. It was that good. I discovered some things: -There is no box set for this as of today. I can buy 1 now, 2 coming. But not the complete collection. Fail. I hate buying my anime this way, so I shall wait. I will even buy it with the crappy yellow, blurry subtitles that come with it when it does. I will even buy it at the estimated $70 despite the cost not including a dub, the so-called expensive part regarding DVD pricing. -If I want to buy the complete series, there are plenty of region 0 DVDs I can buy. You know exactly what this means. And given the number of people who leave comments to those who sell these DVDs, I would probably re-investigate the notion of what fansub sites take away vs. what these pirates do. If anything, the fansub site, with both its series, added more value to Clannad than the distributor did. They gave me a reason to want to own this series, rather than take away from it. Legally, I would have to wait. I'm tired of waiting in a world where digital distribution makes it possible, but our distribution systems force us to wait. I know why ANOD has only 5 series, but it's a stupid system, and most fans know it. (Note: Wait, wouldn't seeing it on this LEGAL site be no different than seeing it on a FANSUB site? Oh, but that would destroy the bias, wouldn't it?) I know why it takes time for DVDs to hit retail shelves, but it's a stupid system, and most fans know it. For you to sit there and accuse me I wouldn't purchase the DVD now that I've seen it shows your ignorance. I want the DVD because I've seen the series*. I want to see a better visual and audio version than what I received online. While looking for the DVD online after viewing the show, I also discovered there are many PVC figures from the show. Those will be mine as well, especially Fuko, the star of the storyline which turned Clannad from an anime series to a story with infinite value. I can't speak for every so-called die hard fan out there, so I leave this statement on my behalf only. So, again, thank you for insulting me. It just made my Monday. PS: Let me know if you want to see a list of my to be purchased DVDs and merchandise, despite having seen the show. I will also list shows I've seen in which I can never buy the DVD, as the distributor made the choice not to bring it here. *And judging from remarks by many people on this very site, it seems having the entire show viewable is better than parts, as many believe a good show with a crappy ending isn't worth purchasing and many don't want to waste $50 on these types of series. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23884 |
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If I understand your question properly, you are asking if watching a series on ANOD is any different than watching it on a fansub site. The difference is obvious: you are paying to watch a series on ANOD through your monthly subscription fee. On a fansub site, you are watching it without any recompense to a legitimate licensor. I.e. you are stealing it. You could steal a chocolate bar and like it so much that it causes you to go out and buy three chocolate bars legitimately. It doesn't change the fact that you stole the original chocolate bar. 
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Firstly, your comment is complete fail. With the two parts, you get the complete collection. Would you prefer if it was the same as Air and Kanon which were released first as singles? Yes, FUNi is now putting out a complete collection for these series now, but it's been years since Air was released and a year or so since Kanon was first released. So... yeah. I don't know where you get 70 dollars from. I bought my Clannad Collection #1 from RightStu for a whopping $23.99. I could pre-order the second one from RightStuf now for $29.99 That's cheap for a just-released 24 episode series. |
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caporushes
Posts: 16 |
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No I definitely meant the industry, dude. : / Money-makers or not, anime isn't going to grab any significant number of new fans if they just keep churning out the same thing with different skins. Stale adaptations and remakes of the same concept, especially the trend now which is to limit those concepts to mostly the ones that appeal to obsessive shut-ins, SEEMS like a good idea now, but I think ultimately it'll just cripple the industry in the long run. If new fans aren't being pulled in by what's already out now, why would slapping a new coat of paint on it do anything to help that? The industry doesn't just need to keep the old fans, it needs to pull in new ones, and tired, rehashed concepts probably aren't going to do the trick.
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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You and I keep going over this, and I really don't want to rehash this, but I do need to correct you. Sorry. I don't pay for ANOD. It's free. The slots opened to ANOD are paid for by revenues obtained through ads via the content shown on ANOD. Please visit Anime Network's website for more info regarding how they distribute their anime shows. I skip the ad via my DVR. So, there is NO DIFFERENCE between me obtaining my shows via ANOD and a fansub site. And here's the kicker: There's only one ad. Skipped. Just like that. If anything, the ad was wasted on me and to everyone else who skipped it. What's that leave? A distribution portal where my content was $0.00. But anyone who's joined the Navy, thank you. YOU paid for my show. 
Again with the incorrect definition of theft? If you want to get down to the letter of the law, fine. I infringed, but I didn't steal. That stolen candy bar means you, Blood, can not buy it because I took it. If I copied the bar... well, then we both can enjoy it, now can't we?
Please don't turn this into another debate. My message was directly to "The Answerman", who freakin' called me out. I couldn't let that sit. If you want to chat about this, PM me, please. 
Thanks. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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OMG! REALLY? *slap* Part 1 of the series (eps 1-12) is only available now. The second is not. If you own it, you bought it illegally. In addition, box sets (all eps) usually have more to them than individual sets prior to them do. Please don't tell me how to spend my money. I have every intent of buying the DVD box set, regardless how cheap I can get parts 1 and 2 individually.
What's this got to do with the price of holes in swiss cheese?
From retail outlets, which usually show a $49.99 price tag (off from $69.99). Doesn't mean the box set will be this much, but if no retailer offers a sale of it, then $70 is my expected price.
Preorder? Did you read my original message or did you just skim it enough to attack me? I still can't get the entire series right now, can I? The individual releases are sold out at most retailers (I could go second market, but defeats the purpose, doesn't it?), so what options do I have again?
$50 is about the average for a 26 episode set (and even some 13 ep sets). And many people here don't even pay that, given their replies indicate they look for deals.
As one person put it: "No one pays full retail for anime anymore." Given all this information, you say I fail? Sorry, can't accept this. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23884 |
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It's true that you and I have discussed fansubbing before, but not this particular aspect. Apparently, you live in an area where your cable company or satellite provider offers ANOD without an additional charge. Not so in my area. I have to fork over an additional $6.95 on top of my usual cable bill to get it. However, even if you don't have to pay an additional fee, it's still not the same as watching a series on a fansub site. If you are watching a series on ANOD, then a legitimate licensee/licensor agreement has been reached. It doesn't matter if you skip/ignore any ads. In the case of a fansub, no such legitimate deal has been reached. Furthermore, the fansub site has added insult to injury by adding an unauthorized element (i.e. subtitle translation) to the copyright protected material they have stolen. But again, I applaud you for supplementing your fansubbing by buying copyright protected material legitimately. If only all fansubbers were that conscientious. |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Which box sets have "more to them" than the singles did? I'm rather curious. If anything, the box sets/thinpaks sometimes take away DVD extras. Also, what would be the difference if a Clannad box set (with all 24 episodes) was released on May 5, 2009? It would still be devoid of extras and you would have had to wait the same amount of time. Also, the Clannad half-series sets go for $39.99 MSRP (as RightStuf shows here), so I have no clue where you're throwing around this 69.99 number. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Except there's one critical missing piece to this "waiting": Chances are, I wouldn't have purchased this box set. In fact, I'm playing "catch up" now. Most of the shows I own have been out for some time, some of which I *looks around* took chances on buying without knowing a single thing about it. So far, only 1 series I've purchased turned "bad", but in truth, I didn't really give a chance. I may try again with it, but I've been pleased with my lucky chances. Now that I've started this, I've been looking around for other series. In all honesty, I have no idea what's "new" vs. old without going online to get the info. But when I'm at a store offering a 50% off sale, I don't have access to this info. But at 50% off, even if the series blew, it wasn't that much of a loss ($10). In this regard to Clannad, however, there is no need to look it up. I've seen the series. I will own the DVD. Summarizing: the fansub site did the job of advertising.
Amazon.com, BestBuy.com, or a host of any other online retailers will show this $69.99 price, but as an MSRP. Generally, it's $49.99 to purchase. Take a look around and you'll see what I'm talking about. As for rightstuf!, I didn't note the original price with my latest purchase. Just the % off.
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Your information is a little off
here is the list of 185 anime titles at Best Buy over $50 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcat17080&type=page&initialize=false&sp=-bestsellingsort+skuid&nrp=15&iht=n&list=y&sc=movieSP&qp=crootcategoryid%23%23-1%23%23-1~~q70726f63657373696e6774696d653a3e313930302d30312d3031~~ccat02015%23%230%23%231du5~~f472||416e696d65~~nf1||24353020616e64207570&usc=cat02015&ks=960&st=processingtime%3A%3E1900-01-01&prids=&cp=3&_requestid=680809 A majority of which are older box sets or box sets that are basically complete art boxes with full singles. All the other anime listed at Best Buy.com, the remaining 3781 are under $49.99 at list price. Taking a quick look at a distributors, that the price is not competing against bestbuy.com's pricing. So this all anime box sets are $69.99 is false. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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I'm glad you reminded me of this, but yes, you're correct subscribers have different set up. However, with that $6.95 you pay, you get a TON more anime I don't get at all. Thanks for the reminder.
I've never disputed this notion. I just dispute the asinine distribution method of such an agreement. It would take me to the end of summer to see all 26 eps of Clannad via this method. No way could I have waited.
Actually, it does. When ads are ineffective, there's no reason for the company to continue supporting costs, now is there? No ads = no revenue = back to square one of no anime. Especially in this economic mess when ad spending is down to its all-time low.
Again, I don't dispute this. But since we've been down this road, I shall not repeat myself.
The only thing I will say to this is you need to consider where the source of the material came from. Remember: Japanese broadcasts generally get it first. If these fans have no respect for their own studios, why should anyone else? There are no DVDs for us in the U.S. to rip, now is there?
Thank you. I do know I represent a small amount of people who do this, but there's also the unrecognized people who discovered anime through these sites and also contribute. Makes you wonder about the true definition of "fan", doesn't it?
Kidding, of course, but you once had a thread regarding the expense, so unfortunately, there's going to be the group who can't pay, regardless how many feel regarding fansub sites. As I've said before, I'd rather pay for them to enjoy it without a dime. Because that's one more fan, helping to increase market demand.
Oh, before I go, I want to point out what ANOD has also lead me to purchasing: Azumanga Daioh Maburaho Yumeria Full Metal Panic: Fumoffu May not seem like much, but this lead me to Geneon, ADV, and FUNimation, as distributors who I recognize. Not a big fan of ADV stuff sometimes, but damn near cried when I heard about Geneon, who IMO, distributed the best stuff I enjoy. Now I'm gobbling up anything stamped with Geneon before it all disappears forever. 
LordRedHand pointed me to a pic of his collection. Dang, he puts mine to shame. I have 1/8 (if that) of what he has. But I'll catch up. My wallet's already crying as 5 more titles are now being shipped thanks to ANN's bargain thread.
I don't know directors, Japanese voice actors, art directors, or any of that, but I do know one studio I adore: Kyoto Animation. Heck, just look at my signup date. Every day, I educate myself more on the studios and the people who run them. All the while my anger against FUNimation and ADV continues to rise, especially with their new tactic of splitting a 26 ep series into 2 13 eps sets, and charging the same price, or in other words, $100 to get both. THANK GOODNESS for online deals. I'd have to sell my house to cover the costs of all my purchases in the last month alone if it wasn't for discounts. 
Well, back to Negima (DVD, promise )!
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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No, you need to look again, but since you won't, here... let me help you: BestBuy Kanon pre-order Note the MSRP. Best I can do for now, given I can't remember where I saw the info. Oh, and I never said all anime. All I said is if Clannad is released at $70, I'd buy it, even with the crappy English sub crap.
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Yeah making it one of the 185 anime titles that is over $50
Which makes sense considering that a series like Kanon is a niche product. But lets us compare a School Rumble set? and a School Rumble Single from Best Buy and distributor. Box sets Best Buy: Season 1 box set http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8892371&st=School+Rumble&lp=4&type=product&cp=1&id=1886750 (Note that it is a collector's box and includes the singles from season one) Season 2 part 1 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9027297&st=School+Rumble&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1895164 (with a noticeable lack of extras) Funimation: Season 1 box set http://www.rightstuf.com/1-800-338-6827/catalogmgr/pt7Q1XmQfZ1tqpfcyR/browse/item/80176/60/3819/24 (more expensive than best buy's price by a whopping $2.49!) Season 2 part 1 http://www.rightstuf.com/1-800-338-6827/catalogmgr/pt7Q1XmQfZ1tqpfcyR/browse/item/80866/60/3819/24 (more expensive by $1.99 when compared to Best Buy) Singles Best Buy: Volume 1 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8428677&st=School+Rumble&lp=10&type=product&cp=1&id=1653523 Funimation: http://www.rightstuf.com/1-800-338-6827/catalogmgr/pt7Q1XmQfZ1tqpfcyR/browse/item/74782/60/3819/0 (saving you 13.99 if you buy from Funimation over Best Buy.) Conclusion: On box sets Funimation is not competing with their online retailers but not charging full MRSP on their products but when looking at the singles are undercutting Best Buy's prices. So really the question is why is Kannon so expensive compared to other sets? It's niche and probably has more extras then say Ghost Hunt TV series and Case Closed season 4 combined. So it's a niche product in an already niche market, it's reasonable that it would cost higher compared to other series, |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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Kanon isn't expensive compared to other sets. A $69.98 MSRP is actually pretty normal for Funi's first complete collections for 24-26 episode series.
Aquarion Beck Black Cat FMA set 1 FMA set 2 Hell Girl Oh, and look here, School Rumble season 1 The very example you used is the same price as Kanon, so I'm not sure how you are coming to the conclusion it is more expensive. It's the same price as a lot of their sets and some are (like Glass Fleet) are even more expensive than Kanon. What extras it retains from the singles we don't know for sure, but Kanon didn't have much to begin with. Also, you can't compare Kanon to the Ghost Hunt sets as Ghost Hunt doesn't have a full series set yet. The only Ghost Hunt sets at the moment are the initial release, 12/13 episode sets. The only way to compare would be to add the sets together, and if you do that, Kanon is cheaper. |
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