Forum - View topicREVIEW: Clannad After Story Sub.DVD 2
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Hentai_JP
 Posts: 605 Location: Toronto, ON |
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This thread is filled with "I agree with Theron"/"I thought exactly same thing" replies. I beg to differ.
I wouldn't say it was "copied" from Air. spoiler[Remember how independent Ushio is? Every time she visits washroom she underlines how she has done everything by herself. It wasn't just "oh how cute" gimmick. It's her strong will that is shown a number of times, so her final "I'll walk by myself" wasn't just "copied" from Air. It a display of Ushio's strength... which makes the scene even more heartbreaking. In Air it was a different. Misuzu knew she is dying so her last walk was more like a dying wish. My point is - while both characters "walk to death" reasons for doing that significantly differ.] I did not think ending was a coup-out. But I don't feel like I can say anything new so I'll leave it at that. And it's not going to fall from #2 Key. If anything, it's been RISING over last 4 month. I know as I do check top charts pretty often. If months ago Bayesian Estimate was around 9.000 it was 9.015 just a few days ago (though it dropped to 9.010 as of today... karma of ending?). I highly doubt it will surpass Kenshin thought at it's 9.031 throne. To drop from #2 AS needs to get below CG R2 which is at 8.967 right now. That is highly unlikely. I also can't believe you didn't give it "Excellent". Even with it's flaws I honestly can't imagine why, after you enjoyed it so much, you'd rate it only as "very good". |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18222 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Different reasons for it doesn't change the fact that it's still the same type of gimmick.
Someone earlier in the thread made the point that the rankings of Clannad AS and CG R2 are both artificially high because, as sequel series, only those who actually liked the first series are likely to have continued watching it into the second series, so one of the normal balancing factors to shows who quickly zoom to high ratings due to fan fervor isn't there. I find that irksome (I wouldn't consider either series even in the same league as Princess Mononoke or Spirited Away, much less better, for instance), but that's just one of the subtle flaws in our ranking system. That's part of the reason why I don't normally pay too much attention to our rankings.
If I was rating the seris only on its last 14 regular episode and the Kyou Arc story, I probably would have rated it Excellent instead. The first eight reguler episodes and other two extra episodes were definitely weaker, though. |
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dgreater1
 Posts: 307 Location: in the Phillipine's AIR space with Misuzu |
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No offense but, are you expecting something easy to chew from Key (Visual Arts)? They're famous for making you go WTF with their endings. And believe me, even gamers went WTF with the game's ending but that's what made us like the show and the game because it made us search for a deeper meaning to why it ended like that. Beside, if people were thinking "This would had been better if it happened like this instead." then the show did its glory at its best because it's a show the has a multiple ending (don't forget why the 2 Alternate Universe [Kyou & Tomoyo] was made... it is to imply that the show isn't just a single universe)... In short, if people were thinking about how an alternate ending could have made the show better to them, then the show did its job. But anyway, the ending for me is already great (both the tragic and the happy one). I mean, why would I want to see the continuation of a show where spoiler[the family that Tomoya started died? I could imagine a continuation of the story but it would be full of heartaches and tearjerkers if you know what I mean. Seriously, the one who'd suffer the ultimate blow after that would be Akio and Sanae.] Remember, episode 16-21 is just a branch in a story that has alternate universes. And episode sixteen has the final clue (their conversation with Kotomi about how there's not only one universe in existence and that there could be many is also a BIG clue here. You know what the saying goes, "Thoughts travel through time, strong emotion can bend reality" but that doesn't change the fact that what happened, did happen. |
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Hentai_JP
Posts: 605 Location: Toronto, ON |
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@Key.
That reminds me: you never mentioned your impressions of “Another World – Kyou Arc” (only explained what it is). So what do you think? As good as Tomoyo's Arc? I think they are about on the same level of greatness, but I tend to favour Kyo's arc more  .
I don't want to argue about first eight episodes(obviously I disagree), but in case of recap and "before they met" episodes one should do the following - pretend they never happened. Thats how I got through endoresu eito and preserved my love for Haruhi franchise. |
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jenthehen
 Posts: 835 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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I loved both Kanon and Air (anime versions), so I definitely don't have a problem with Key's story telling, in general. Also, when we are saying "we would have liked it better if it ended like _____" isn't referring to choosing a different girl to bang in the end (there was an H-version of Clannad, right?) I feel like as an anime series (and not a game) having a spoiler[re-set as the ending just cheapens the whole emotional experience. And that's that. I understand that the point is that Tomoya learned a lot and grew and "collected orbs" (even though that barely happens in the anime, and isn't REALLY emphasized enough for me to buy the ending) and that there are "different worlds" ... but I just felt that it took away from the emotional impact. Essentially, all that emotion in the best episodes of the show NO LONGER REALLY HAPPENED. It's happily ever after with annoying as hell fuko for everyone  ]
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dgreater1
Posts: 307 Location: in the Phillipine's AIR space with Misuzu |
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This is the misconception that I'm trying to point out. If you believe that it didn't happen and it nullifies the emotion given to you, sure believe what you want but I'll tell you that in a parallel world, things happen differently so saying "It didn't happen" is not true. Anyway, the world where spoiler[Tomoya's family died is still running as we watch Episode 22 and so on... it means the story where Ushio and Tomoya died still continues but why would I want to see tragedy after tragedy? If Key continues the show where Tomoya and Ushio dies, what would be the point? It will imply how tragic life could be to a person and I'm sure everyone already knows that.] And by the way, there's definitely H for CLANNAD (H Fanart), but KEY's CLANNAD isn't an ero game. Anyway, if you think the emotion the best episode gave you was nullify because of what happened to the ending, then I don't think it's the show faults anymore, it just didn't click to you. |
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Amitiel
Posts: 9 |
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I don't know how many people here have actually seen the Clannad film (as old as it is), but having known that that was based with fairly loose accuracy of the VN's plot, at the point where AS stopped being about each girl's individual arc and focussed on one, more cohesive story, I guessed spoiler[Nagisa's death during childbirth] was coming about three miles off and at the same time though, whilst it's less-obvious in a series such as Air, Key do seem to try to opt for a happyish ending - with the spoiler[alternate world] thread, it was pretty obvious that they were going to try and swing it around somehow, just with one last attempt (albeit the worst in the second half of the series) at a sob story thrown in for good measure.
That said, despite how predictable I found the second half of AS, that doesn't exactly detract from the series. As I'm sure a fair few Air fans can attest, just because you know something's going to happen, that doesn't always make it any less entertaining or heartbreaking. With the inherrently slow pace of these sorts of series, I do think it is actually incredibly difficult to have a plot twist that you can't see a mile off - a sudden twist, with this sort of pace, literally would leave fans more angry and confused than enjoying a series. |
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dgreater1
Posts: 307 Location: in the Phillipine's AIR space with Misuzu |
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That's not exactly true. You're dismissing people who didn't like the first series yet, liked the second series. I think you're assuming that because a lot of people didn't like the first series, they would avoid the second one and vice versa. I knew some of them that's why I have an idea. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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man I can't wait for the new Fainaru Fantajii game! perhaps I will play it while having some cohii with a little miruku mom am I Japanese yet |
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jenthehen
Posts: 835 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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I have seen the movie version, and I honestly think it's great. It doesn't waste time examining each moe girl's sad sad story, and gets right to the point. The ending is also realistic
 (but not as emotional as the flower scene in the anime version).
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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I don't know if I should be happy or sad that it took me 10 seconds to relate "miruku" with "milk". The movie I thought was fine. The artwork by Toei isn't quite as sharp as KyoAni, despite being a movie. I also thought how the whole spoiler["You were having the same dream as me!" thing went regarding Nagisa's play seemed quite trite.] I do prefer where the movie ended compared to where the TV series ended. Seemed a lot more fitting. |
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Swissman
Posts: 768 Location: Switzerland |
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Well, some people want exactly that in the ending what you call "what's the point?" They expect more "realism" in a series which is a mix between realism and fantasy. I, for example, also think that the ending was a cop out after the excellent episodes in the middle. I expect more "realism" in, say, how will a main character deal with all the tragedy that happened to his family. Will he get more depressed, or will he learn other people and get on with his life? ect. Yes, this may sound boring, depressing or "pointless", but that's.... "real life". In contrary, Clannad AS' end was wish-fullfilment for fans. As a viewer, you're supposed to shed a tear here and there in the most melodramatic scenes of the series, but in the end, everything will be all right. This kind of ending isn't bad per see, but it's certainly not an ending for everyone. |
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dgreater1
Posts: 307 Location: in the Phillipine's AIR space with Misuzu |
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That's true, but don't forget the focus of the story is about Tomoya. And Key decided to spoiler[literally kill him and his daughter and no one can stop that]. Switching the story to Akio and Sanae would make the viewers go even more WTF than imposing the rule of Theory of Everything (Physical and Philosophical) 
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grooven
Posts: 1424 Location: Canada |
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Their stories are connected to the actual end so they were needed. To get the other ending then yeah you could skip them. Expect Toei's characterization was terrible. The funny thing is some people are expecting realism from KEY. Why would you expect that for an end from KEY? None of their endings are fantasy free. |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Because Key isn't one typically pull crap out of thin air.
For example, if Air TV had ended spoiler[With Misuzu lying dead, and a feather descends slowly from sky and landed on Misuzu's lifeless body, and we hear a voice from the sky declaring "Live, Kanna!". This brings Misuzu back to life and the crow transforms back into Yukito who embraces Misuzu and whispers "you don't have to be alone anymore".] I'd completely hate it. Doesn't matter had there been some sort of foreshadowing in the Summer Arc and it "fit" with everything else from the game. If it had ended like that, I would have rolled my eyes and not have enjoyed the show nearly as much as I do. I already stated how I feel it would have been best to end Clannad, so I'll leave it at that. |
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