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INTEREST: Digimon Tamers 20th Anniversary Stage Show Features 'Cancel Culture' Villain


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residentgrigo



Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 2443
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:54 am Reply with quote
He hasn't worked in anime in 15 years and his coworkers made fun of Chiaki J. Konaka in NieA_7. A show from 2000. The early warnings. Konaka did some good work in his career but the man is scum and the signs were always there. He said that he will talk about the western fans next week? Ho boi. This will be the last time a major corporation will touch him. Can´t wait to find out about his views on 9/11. You know, the thing he thinks the US government committed on itself? Oh sorry, "The New World Order".
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Mew Berry



Joined: 02 Apr 2016
Posts: 186
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:23 am Reply with quote
Just the other day on the Ghost Game/02 movie announcement I posted that I wished Tamers would get some sort of revival. I think I take that back.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6028
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:04 pm Reply with quote
all-tsun-and-no-dere wrote:
Bro I've got some news for you there


Let me guess Gonzo in the muppet babies wearing a dress and some people to no one’s surprise getting upset about it?


Last edited by BadNewsBlues on Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4911
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:51 pm Reply with quote
I just wish we could get back to the point where we were like "separate the art from the artist!" instead of blindly defending everything the artist has ever said or done in their life. It wasn't always an optimal solution when the artist was actively using their art to cause harm to others but at least with that like we were on the same page of facts and reality and people would acknowledge the artist did something awful. But unsurprisingly the people who used to use that argument have ditched it and are now arguing the artist is always right about everything and you're not allowed to say anything critical of the artist ever or that's somehow proving the artist's perfection.
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ZeetherKID77



Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 981
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:07 pm Reply with quote
Good lord though, Konaka. I kind of saw this coming because I heard about his crazy views beforehand but still, to associate such trash with Digimon Tamers...
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Rentwo



Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 184
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:11 pm Reply with quote
ZephyrVayu wrote:
Unless whatever She-Ra punched was actually called "The Patriarchy" and its attack was "Wage Gap" I think you're being pretty disingenuous comparing it to how blatant and on-the-nose this recent Konaka project is with its messaging, which borders on propaganda. And in answer to your question, it depends on the context and what constitutes politics. Some people say the increase in LGBT characters in kids shows is "political" but I disagree with that sentiment. There are many examples of harmful left-wing politics being pushed in kids shows which I also abhor. I don't even necessarily disagree that Cancel Culture and Political Correctness are growing out of control and need to be discussed and critiqued more, but I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't acknowledge that a child-friendly franchise like Digimon is not the appropriate space for Konaka's beliefs to be pushed, at least not in such an unsubtle way. There are plenty of kids shows which explore controversial and dark themes but do it in a way where it flies completely over the young viewers' heads until they re-watch it as an adult. I guess I'm more annoyed by Konaka's crappy writing.


I don't really hold loanwords and odd names against a Japanese work. It's pretty common to see them because they sound cool in Japanese. Yoko Taro naming his villains after real life Communists like Engels and Marx, for example. Or how Hideki Anno uses a lot of Christian naming for his villains in Evangelion. It might sound odd in English but it's exotic and cool to Japanese speakers which is what these products are primarily aimed at.

Some people might not consider race, sexual orientation, or gender identity political, but some do. Just as I'm sure some people don't think freedom of expression should be political but it has apparently become "far right politics and conspiracy theories" at least according to DATS and The Wild Bunch. For myself, I feel anything can be made political, especially when we're talking about integrating these ideas into society at large and making it a new standard. I do think if we're at the point where children's franchises are seeing large pushes, or actual mandates, to have their race, gender, and sexual identity altered for the sake of more diversity then it probably is a political issue. It's a bit hard to argue against it when you have American creators being very open and vocal about their politics, often times to a very toxic and absurd degree. I don't think this stage play was anywhere close to being as soapboxy or toxic as a lot of the stuff you can find in western media these days.
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luisedgarf



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 660
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:18 pm Reply with quote
DavetheUsher wrote:

I didn't mean the political correctness stuff in the show was specifically about the anime dub's edits, just that Digimon has had tons of content edited out in the west so it's not a politically correct show to begin with. Little wonder they wouldn't care about being perceived as politically correct or speaking out against it, I say..


By the "west" you mean the U.S? Because in some foreign dubs, like the Latin American Spanish dub, most of the Spanish dubs use the uncensored Japanese footage, at least until the latest series, so please stop using Cold War terminology thinking that your values from your country applies to everyone else.
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Vanadise



Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 504
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:09 pm Reply with quote
residentgrigo wrote:
He hasn't worked in anime in 15 years and his coworkers made fun of Chiaki J. Konaka in NieA_7. A show from 2000. The early warnings. Konaka did some good work in his career but the man is scum and the signs were always there.

I've known that he's been edging into crazy conspiracy theorist territory for a while now, but this does give a pretty good explanation of why basically nobody is willing to work with him any more. I don't know if I'd go so far as to call him "scum" -- there are plenty of more deserving creators who have done things that actually inflicted direct harm on people -- but it's still very disappointing to see him use a beloved childrens' series as a soapbox for right-wing dogwhistling.
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2397
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:10 pm Reply with quote
This isn't necessarily a matter of Konaka turning "alt-right". I'm not at all going to defend Konaka's views, but I think it's important to provide some broader context. Keep in mind that I might have a degree in Japanese linguistics and history, but this is still in part based on my own observations and inferences, so treat it as my perspective (this might be long):

Japan has had a long history of censorship lasting up to barely past WWII, when people could be jailed or forced to kill themselves for dissenting political opinions, so freedom of speech and expression are pretty sensitive historical realities to those in the country. In the decades since, media censorship has often been a matter of complying with foreign media standards rather than domestic standards: censoring of nudity on television, mosaics in "obscene" material, pressure from UNICEF to censor anime/manga and ultimately leading to the passing of Bill 156 ("fictional youths" youth ordinance bill), the controversy surrounding the Illusion game "Rapelay" that led to many visual novel websites blocking foreign traffic, CNN's poorly researched and deliberately misleading TV documentary about lolicon (where several of the people they interviewed were misquoted and edited in a bad light), the recent Kadokawa debacle, and even some twitter trends where Japanese artists or anime have been criticized by English speakers for drawing dark-skinned characters with margainally lighter skin (apparently a lot of people think Saitou/Bea from Pokemon is black?). The list goes on. 2ch was also created originally on the basis of allowing people to comment on politics and news anonymously without fearing political or social backlash in Japan due to general conformity issues in Japanese society.

So, naturally, one of the popular views on the Japanese internet is (as vaguely as possible) "Foreign countries are trying to censor our media", an absolutely valid concern. This has led a ton of people looking for answers to find the only foreigners actively talking about these this concern on the internet: reactionary youtubers. I've watched many a friend (my Japanese friends are mostly anime fans and artists themselves) work themselves into a frenzy over a conspiracy theory because they saw a video subtitled on youtube in Japanese of some English-speaking person talking about media censorship/leftist influence on media and cancelling... and then election fraud, communism (don't forget that Japan has a very real fear of China and North Korea, so most people are also anti-communist on that principle alone), etc. One valid concern leads to falling down a rabbit hole of conspiracies being highlighted by a very niche group of people. But...

Quote:
Just look at Kadokawa, JC Staff, and Ken Akamatsu. They simply don't want your politics polluting their media.


Without highlighting the full post I'm quoting for obvious reasons, this is a common and basic misunderstanding of Japanese politics and the fight for freedom of speech and expression in Japan and very relevant to the rest of this post:

Politician Yamada Taro, mangaka Akamatsu Ken-sensei, and many of the people who consider themselves active and vocal opponents of media censorship are quite "left-leaning" from a common contemporary "Western" perspective and especially a Japanese one. Using the aforementioned examples, Yamada campaigned on stopping media censorship, but he has a history of fighting for the rights of minorities in Japan including LGBTQ+ people (he led a recent fight to legalize gay marriage in Japan) and worker's rights for disabled people. He used to own a worker's union before he became a politician. Akamatsu-sensei and Yamada, as part of their advocacy for the freedom of expression, have promoted pro-LGBTQ+ works because they recognize LGBTQ+ content is more likely to be censored. Their views reflect a general pool of anti-censorship anime/manga/game/media fans in Japan (people who don't care for LGBTQ+ political issues included). These people aren't really concerned about "leftist censorship from the West", but rather ALL censorship (regardless of government or private platform or publisher). Everything from conservatist religious fundamentalism to "political correctness" and "cancel culture" is a threat if it means people can't discuss or show something openly or in media.

Konaka's themes in Lain heavily reflect Japanese history and his concerns about media culture laid bare on his blog. He may be misinformed about the context of what he's talking about on his blog (I can't personally say how much he knows), but he seems like part of a slightly bigger trend of people in Japan who fall deeper into conspiracy theories because the false concerns of a few random foreigners on youtube sound believable to their ears. "Why are no other foreigners talking about this? These people must know what they're talking about" -kind of deal. I don't think this makes a person "alt-right", especially when they come from a different political climate.

Anyway, I hope this post was informative to some extent. Again, consider it my own perspective. Cultural analysis is complex and hardly a science. If you want to know more, feel free to spend some time on your own doing research.

--------

As for my opinion on the drama itself... I watched it in its entirety and if I didn't already know Konaka believed in its bare message, I probably would've hailed it as an absurdist parody of conspiracy theories on the internet. All the characters roll their eyes at Yamaki when he starts shouting about cancel culture and PC. Juri would've left the room awkwardly had Impmon not shown up. When the PC monster materializes and uses its Cancel Culture attack, it's never described or shown to the audience (does the attack even do anything?). It feels like a boogeyman joke. I busted out laughing at its absurdity. And then the drama cuts off abruptly mid-battle, making it seem even more absurdist. Without the para-context, I wouldn't have judged it problemtic. Just... funny. Of course, for a 30 minute filler, I can't really see it doing anything too deep, so I didn't expect it to be phenomenally written or anything.
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Wyvern



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 1570
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:51 pm Reply with quote
Honesty, what strikes me almost as much as Konaka's descent into conspiracy lunacy is how HACKY this plot summary sounds. Like, maybe the actual work is more nuanced, but this plot summary reads like the work of an angry 14 year old.

Remember Serial Experiments Lain? People discussed the themes of that show for years because Konaka was skilled enough to write a story with multiple layers, with nuance and subtlety which respected the audience enough to let them interpret it their own way. Even the original Tamers, which was a kids' show, had a lot of complex points to make about the internet, popular culture, and how people handle (and repress) grief. I just feel like the Konaka of that era would never do anything as amateurish as turn his heroes into mouthpieces for his opinions and have them fight a big monster named "Political Correctness." That's not a story, that's the equivalent of one of those Onion political cartoon parodies, only done completely sincerely. All that's missing is the crying Statue of Liberty.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this just gives the sense that (to put it kindly) Konaka's best days as a writer are behind him, if this is all he's capable of now. It's pretty sad to think about given that I still recall the days when he was THE hottest writer in anime (of course, I collected Lain on VHS, so...those days were a while ago.)
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4911
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:11 pm Reply with quote
Juno016 wrote:
This isn't necessarily a matter of Konaka turning "alt-right". I'm not at all going to defend Konaka's views, but I think it's important to provide some broader context. Keep in mind that I might have a degree in Japanese linguistics and history, but this is still in part based on my own observations and inferences, so treat it as my perspective (this might be long)

Though I would also say even in the West this is a common tactic of conspiracy theorists to try and normalize their views by arguing they're not actually conspiracy theorists and they're "just asking questions." Most media savvy conspiracy theorists will rarely actually label themselves as such as a way of deflecting criticism and making it seem like everyone else is the ones being unreasonable. Like most anti vaxxers will never actually say they hate all science or that they don't believe in any medicine but they just have "concerns" about mercury and they want "safe" vaccines or whatever. So like if Konaka is supporting known alt right media figures and using his platforms to advance their ideas, it's pretty much a distinction without a difference at that point and unless he's completely lost any rational thinking, Konaka is never going to explicitly say he's alt right, especially if he's still hoping to get that Despera anime funded.
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all-tsun-and-no-dere
ANN Reviewer


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 607
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:51 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:


Let me guess Gonzo in the muppet babies wearing a dress and some people to no one’s surprise getting upset about it?


Nah, even more explicitly political than that. In the classroom I've been in for two weeks, there's a book about the "residential schools" that took indigenous children away from their families, cut their hair, and abused them. I've read books about water protectors, people who protest gas and oil pipelines that could potentially pollute the water supply and environment; about Pride; about public figures like Ruth Bader Ginsberg and a variety of other public figures. We have a book called "Antiracist Baby". One of my favorite books to read to toddlers is called "Everywhere Babies" and depicts a huge variety of ethnicities and family structures in a very casual, but also clearly deliberate way.

I'd say if anything, books aimed at young children tend to be more strongly political than those for other age ranges, because so many of them serve a didactic function and have values encoded in them.
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Fourteenthangel



Joined: 01 Apr 2015
Posts: 66
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:43 pm Reply with quote
To be honest, this sounds like the ramblings of some old boomer than anything else. What is like 60? So honestly none of this surprises me in the slightest. Of course seeing how many pages this single thread has, people are really overreacting. The special doesn't even really say much about Political Correctness or Cancel Culture. It is sort of explained and nothing more is said about it before the credits roll.

It is odds to hear this ideas in something related to Digimon of all things but then again Digimon from the very beginning has always been about technology and increasing presence in our daily lives. Could it have been handled better? Sure but I've definitely seen much worse and it definitely isn't something to lose sleep over.

And even if Konaka really is some alt-right conspiracy theorist then it wouldn't affect me. Digimon Tamers like most anime is a collaborative effort of many hard working creators. Konaka was just one of the many people who worked on the series. It is not solely his work. You can still enjoy Tamers.
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DavetheUsher



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 505
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:24 pm Reply with quote
luisedgarf wrote:
By the "west" you mean the U.S? Because in some foreign dubs, like the Latin American Spanish dub, most of the Spanish dubs use the uncensored Japanese footage, at least until the latest series, so please stop using Cold War terminology thinking that your values from your country applies to everyone else.


I hear you, but I've specified America before and then been told it's not just America who does that stuff or feels that way so there's no pleasing everyone.

Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
Though I would also say even in the West this is a common tactic of conspiracy theorists to try and normalize their views by arguing they're not actually conspiracy theorists and they're "just asking questions." Most media savvy conspiracy theorists will rarely actually label themselves as such as a way of deflecting criticism and making it seem like everyone else is the ones being unreasonable. Like most anti vaxxers will never actually say they hate all science or that they don't believe in any medicine but they just have "concerns" about mercury and they want "safe" vaccines or whatever. So like if Konaka is supporting known alt right media figures and using his platforms to advance their ideas, it's pretty much a distinction without a difference at that point and unless he's completely lost any rational thinking, Konaka is never going to explicitly say he's alt right, especially if he's still hoping to get that Despera anime funded.


Does anyone actually call themselves 'alt-right'? Non-ironically or as a joke to mess with people I mean. I've really only ever seen it used as a label people apply to people without their consent for silly things like liking or disliking certain movies or TV shows. Like someone said earlier, obvious a Japanese person is not going to be 'alt right' if that means being a white supremacist or whatever. No offense, but for all talk about folks disliking conspiracy theories stuff like this sounds like a conspiracy theory itself. "No no, you don't get it, this is what they REALLY mean! It's all a ruse! You got to read between the lines and remove the wool from over your eyes to finally see the truth.". Not everyone who thinks censorship sucks has some kind of ulterior motive. Humans are complex creatures with a variety of different thoughts and beliefs. Most of these things are not partisan issues at all.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4621
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:51 pm Reply with quote
Wyvern wrote:
Honesty, what strikes me almost as much as Konaka's descent into conspiracy lunacy is how HACKY this plot summary sounds. Like, maybe the actual work is more nuanced, but this plot summary reads like the work of an angry 14 year old.

Remember Serial Experiments Lain? People discussed the themes of that show for years because Konaka was skilled enough to write a story with multiple layers, with nuance and subtlety which respected the audience enough to let them interpret it their own way. Even the original Tamers, which was a kids' show, had a lot of complex points to make about the internet, popular culture, and how people handle (and repress) grief. I just feel like the Konaka of that era would never do anything as amateurish as turn his heroes into mouthpieces for his opinions and have them fight a big monster named "Political Correctness." That's not a story, that's the equivalent of one of those Onion political cartoon parodies, only done completely sincerely. All that's missing is the crying Statue of Liberty.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this just gives the sense that (to put it kindly) Konaka's best days as a writer are behind him, if this is all he's capable of now. It's pretty sad to think about given that I still recall the days when he was THE hottest writer in anime (of course, I collected Lain on VHS, so...those days were a while ago.)

Seriously, this feels like the equivalent of some Ben Garrison garbage. (If you don't know who that is, count yourself lucky.) I'll second whoever said earlier that Konaka has essentially become Schwarzwald, only without the kickass giant robot and the oh-hey-he-was-right-all-along.
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