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REVIEW: Puella Magi Madoka Magica Vol. 3 Blu-ray

Now on the other hand (and some people might disagree) I think the sub should be taken into account when judging the series. Why? Because unlike the dub which I see as an extra, the sub actually is an original component of the series.

Veers wrote:

Maidenoftheredhand wrote: Now personally I think a dub should never add or detract from a review of the series itself. It could add or detract from the DVD/BR as a product but it has nothing to do with judging the show. Honestly I would rather see a real grade for the dub itself. This is like saying reviews of food should never discuss the flavor as long as the dish provides good nutrients, or saying the vocals of a song don't matter as long as the lyrics are well written. The dub of a series is part of the experience; it can enhance or detract from that experience depending on how it is handled. As the means by which the story is told and as one of the ways by which the characters are portrayed to the audience, the dub has as much to do with judging the show as a whole as, say, the animation or music.

No actually your comparison does not make sense. I don't think there is an equivalent to a dub when talking about food so I am not going to use it.

Please explain to me why the dub should add or detract from the series? What does the dub have to do with Madoka magica itself? What if there never was a dub? There still would be Madoka. If there wasn't the animation or music (or sub as I said above) than Madoka would not be the same show, but the dub is not an integral part of the series at all.

As I said above the dub should only be judged as part of the product itself, not as a part of judging the series.

edit: Also I never said the dub should not be discussed. I just said it should be an entirely separate grade from the series itself.

Veers wrote:

Maidenoftheredhand wrote: Now personally I think a dub should never add or detract from a review of the series itself. It could add or detract from the DVD/BR as a product but it has nothing to do with judging the show. Honestly I would rather see a real grade for the dub itself. This is like saying reviews of food should never discuss the flavor as long as the dish provides good nutrients, or saying the vocals of a song don't matter as long as the lyrics are well written. The dub of a series is part of the experience; it can enhance or detract from that experience depending on how it is handled. As the means by which the story is told and as one of the ways by which the characters are portrayed to the audience, the dub has as much to do with judging the show as a whole as, say, the animation or music.

No actually your comparison does not make sense. I don't think there is an equivalent to a dub when talking about food so I am not going to use it.

Please explain to me why the dub should add or detract from the series? What does the dub have to do with Madoka magica itself? What if there never was a dub? There still would be Madoka. If there wasn't the animation or music (or sub as I said above) than Madoka would not be the same show, but the dub is not an integral part of the series at all.

As I said above the dub should only be judged as part of the product itself, not as a part of judging the series.

edit: Also I never said the dub should not be discussed. I just said it should be an entirely separate grade from the series itself.

Maidenoftheredhand wrote:

Now on the other hand (and some people might disagree) I think the sub should be taken into account when judging the series. Why? Because unlike the dub which I see as an extra, the sub actually is an original component of the series.

Why does it matter which audio was recorded first? Both are included, both are alternate ways of viewing the series, and there are people who will only use one of the two.

Why should the Japanese dub be treated special? The audio track is a major component of the overall experience of a video so it only makes sense that two different dubs get two different experience ratings. Just because you see the English track as an extra doesn't mean somebody else won't see the Japanese track the same way.

But the Japanese dub isn't integral to the product at all - hence why an English one is often offered as a drop-in replacement.

dtm42 wrote:

Jesus people, it isn't difficult to understand. The Overall: Dub gets an A+ because the series is so incredibly good that the dub would have to be appalling to detract from the show. Let me put it in the form of a simple diagram: * <--- this point is the overall experience watching Puella Magi Madoka Magica subbed * <--- this point is the overall experience watching Puella Magi Madoka Magica dubbed ----------This here is the A+ line---------- It ain't rocket science.

So just to be clear then... If the show is the most awful thing ever produced by anime, basically a 50 episode series about turd decomposing with the camera randomly zooming in and out on the turd and people standing around talking, but the dub is the most brilliant academy award winning dub ever in the history of anime it would be rated a D because even a brilliant dub couldn't raise the show above a D. Whereas if the show was the most awesome amazing anime in all reality, so awesome a new world wide religion was born and a new school of anime thought founded, and the dub was nothing more than cows mooing and farting then the dub would get an A because even cows mooing and farting in the dub track could not lower the overall experience below an A.

Thus determining the quality of just the dub for a show via the rating is pointless because the dub rating is largely dependent on the quality of the show as seen by the reviewer. Correct?

I just want to be sure so that I can determine how useful an ANN dub rating is going to be to me personally.

So just to be clear then... If the show is the most awful thing ever produced by anime, basically a 50 episode series about turd decomposing with the camera randomly zooming in and out on the turd and people standing around talking, but the dub is the most brilliant academy award winning dub ever in the history of anime it would be rated a D because even a brilliant dub couldn't raise the show above a D. Whereas if the show was the most awesome amazing anime in all reality, so awesome a new world wide religion was born and a new school of anime thought founded, and the dub was nothing more than cows mooing and farting then the dub would get an A because even cows mooing and farting in the dub track could not lower the overall experience below an A.

Thus determining the quality of just the dub for a show via the rating is pointless because the dub rating is largely dependent on the quality of the show as seen by the reviewer. Correct?

I just want to be sure so that I can determine how useful an ANN dub rating is going to be to me personally.

Polycell wrote:

Why should the Japanese dub be treated special? The audio track is a major component of the overall experience of a video so it only makes sense that two different dubs get two different experience ratings. Just because you see the English track as an extra doesn't mean somebody else won't see the Japanese track the same way.

Because frankly the sub is more important in terms of the series than the dub as it is part of the creation of the series, not something that came afterwards to appeal to the American fandom.

I know there are a lot of people who refuse to watch subbed anime but bottom line is the Japanese language track not the English language track is the original track of the series. The dub is an extra and has nothing to with the creation of the series itself which yes the original language track does.

I am not saying it's not important because obvious it is for people who purchase the BR/DVD and care about the dub. You are spending money on the dub too, but it has nothing to do with the original creation of the series.

Quote:

But the Japanese dub isn't integral to the product at all - hence why an English one is often offered as a drop-in replacement.

I think you and some other people are missing the point here. You are right the Japanese dub is not necessarily integral to the product you purchase. But it is integral to the the creation of the series.

Please explain to me why the dub should add or detract from the series?

What does the dub have to do with Madoka magica itself?

What if there never was a dub?

There still would be Madoka.

If there wasn't the animation or music (or sub as I said above) than Madoka would not be the same show, but the dub is not an integral part of the series at all.

You are right the Japanese dub is not necessarily integral to the product you purchase. But it is integral to the the creation of the series.

I think you're missing the point: why should which dub came first matter for a review? The ratings are for watching the show with the Japanese dub and English subtitles and for watching the show with the English dub and no subtitles. While you could give a dub a score on its own, there's no point trying to score the quality of a show independent of any dub - and no pertinent reason to score it on a single dub alone.

TLDR: Your argument's a non sequitur.

Because it is the audio medium through which the series' script is experienced.

dub is the audio medium through which the series' script is experienced. You seem to be really confused about this.

Which still would have an audio track also known as a Japanese dub

So what? The review is about the consumption of the series, not the creation.

But the Japanese dub isn't integral to the product at all - hence why an English one is often offered as a drop-in replacement.

So just to be clear then... If the show is the most awful thing ever produced by anime, basically a 50 episode series about turd decomposing with the camera randomly zooming in and out on the turd and people standing around talking, but the dub is the most brilliant academy award winning dub ever in the history of anime it would be rated a D because even a brilliant dub couldn't raise the show above a D. Whereas if the show was the most awesome amazing anime in all reality, so awesome a new world wide religion was born and a new school of anime thought founded, and the dub was nothing more than cows mooing and farting then the dub would get an A because even cows mooing and farting in the dub track could not lower the overall experience below an A.

Thus determining the quality of just the dub for a show via the rating is pointless because the dub rating is largely dependent on the quality of the show as seen by the reviewer. Correct?

Not having the Japanese dub would be akin to chopping out chunks of the show itself.

Exactly because the Japanese language track is the original track of the series. The dub does not need to exist for the series itself to exist. This is not true for the Japanese track.