Forum - View topicNEWS: Media Factory makes request to stop fansubbing
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The Starfall Knight
 Posts: 130 Location: Within the hearts of the people |
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According to Maslow's Hierarchy of needs and my circumstances, I do need anime to fulfill the self-actualization need. My passion is anime, I must stay true to my nature. I want to make it my life, more than it already is. You can't just suggest that I give it up =T. And I'm not saying that I have the right to watch it for free. But it's the most prominent way I CAN watch it. Every now and then I manage to save up enough money from not eating lunch and I buy some mangas or a DVD. I work with what I have, so please don't peg me as some leech to the anime society. And to me, anime IS food. It's food for the soul 
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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You know Starfall, I think it's the fact that you keep stretching - I believe you are attempting to take Maslow out of context... and keep trying to justify your reasons for watching fansubs. I'd have a higher degree of respect for you in general if you'd stop just trying to justify your actions. It'd be much easier for you to say, "I know it's wrong, but I'm going to do it anyway." You'd be able to pacify (to some extent) those who are telling you it is wrong, but at the same time, state the position you have ultimately decided on.
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The Starfall Knight
Posts: 130 Location: Within the hearts of the people |
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Haven't I said that before? Well, if I haven't I'll say it now. ::clears throat:: I know it's wrong, but I'm going to do it anyway. In fact, I love it. Yes, I love fansubs. It's interesting to me to see how diff. fansub groups are going to translate series and how good the quality of their fansubs are. I like watching an episode of a series weekly, as if it were on TV. I like having my friends gather around my monitor as we watch and laugh together at some of the funnier moments in an anime. I really like that. And if that makes me an evil person, then so be it. I am an evil anime otaku. ...but I was just kidding, I know it's wrong bet yet I feel compelled to do it anyway. But in the end, I'm only being true to myself. And you don't know me, so you'd probably never understand anyways. Everything's black and white in this world, no? There is no room for the gray. You're right, it is easier for me to say that. But then again, it would be easier for you to respect that I'm a broke teen who can't give up anime. When I'm making money and have enough to buy the stuff, then we'll talk. Enemy, thy name is age. |
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Vukir
 Posts: 66 Location: California |
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Alright then, I will clerify my lack of understanding. I do not question the request for American fansubbers to stop not only the subbing, but distribution of an anime title once the license has come state side. (I use the U.S. as an example... I really do not care the nation, so long as the idea is expressed.) Such actions clearly place a loss on those who bought and are trying to distribute the title. You cannot lose money in DVD sales from people who do not have access to it, nor can you lose a television audience when they do not get the channel to view it. I do not understand the need for a Japanese company to request that titles that are viewed by a population that they are neither advertising to, nor providing to, to stop. You cannot lose sales from someone you arn't even selling to. As for Japanese downloading them... I really think MF should look to sites in Japan that provide the same services, before the subs. I just think there are bigger fish to fry, like hong-kong bootlegs, licensed anime fansubs, and world hunger. Aside from that, who wants to wait anouther 2 years to see Gundam SEED Destiny? |
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Moesbie
Posts: 10 |
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It looks like you do not understand what property is. When you own something you have the final say as to what can and can not be done with it. Wether or not it is attributing to sales is irrelavant. Sure there are bigger fish to fry, but that doesn't mean you should let the worms go free. And anyway files distributed in the US via internet can go anywhere in the world, easily. In otherwords it could affect their sales. And what about sales to US licensors, it can affect future sales with them. Don't like waiting to see it? Move to Japan. Even they have to wait a week for a new episode. Are you going to be dead in 2 years? It's kinda sad this thread is still going. I'm sure someone has said what I just said mulitple times by now (probably more elequently). Oh well. |
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Moesbie
Posts: 10 |
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No wonder you're all messed up, you're trying to fulfill the upper parts of the hierarchy before you can even handle your basic needs. Get a job and feed yourself before you deal with self-actualization. You're trying to build a castle on quicksand. |
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SuperOnizuka
 Posts: 421 Location: When I look At the World- New Jersey |
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Do you understand what self-actualization represents? Self actualization, by Abraham Maslow means the need to develop one's potential, to become the person one was meant to be. You need to have fulfilled physiological needs (you have...I assume), Safety (you have...I assume), Belongingness (not sure..don't know you), Esteem, (again I don;t know you ...so not sure) in order to get to self actualization. So you are using Maslow's self actualization, help me out here, you claim downloading anime, or watching anime, will get you to be who you are in the full extent? Which is silly in itself.... Anyway how could that be so if you are using your money needed for food, which supplies the basic needs of physiology, instead for anime. If you can't fulfill the earliest requirements, using Maslow's theory here, of the hierarchy of needs, then you cannot fullfill self-actualization. Anyway, Maslow's theory wouldn't work with what you said, since he means physiological necessities literally. Fufilling your basic hunger. Not some symbolism that anime is food for the soul. Anyway, just because you are a teen, doesn't mean employment is far from reach. I don't know, maybe doing chores for your neighbors, babysitting, asking for an allowance, might be a way to get some sort of cash.... 
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The Starfall Knight
Posts: 130 Location: Within the hearts of the people |
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No, you misunderstand. When I said food I meant that... bah, nevermind. Someone will just come and twist my words around anyways. Let's not get technical, ok? I'm 17, give me an everloving break please. But I guess that to a degree, I've fulfilled ever need that I, personally, can fulfill. I'm full, I've got a roof over my head, I'm a member of different clubs, I'm a senior in high school and that's got me feeling pretty damned good about myself, and to top it all off I dabble in otakudom. I used the term pretty loosely, but I appreciate the correction. Besides, it's Monday and I'm tired. And I'm tired of being looked down upon because I'm a thief. Happy Monday to you all.
And as for the allowance, chores for neighbors, babysitting and all that...great suggestions, but my parents are strapped for cash as it is, my neighbors are all nuts, and I have my hands full taking care of my two younger siblings. But thanks for the suggestions. Last edited by The Starfall Knight on Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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deathbringer
Posts: 276 |
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First off, a week is hardly the same as two years. And secondly, what a dumb question. No one knows when they're going to die. |
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The Starfall Knight
Posts: 130 Location: Within the hearts of the people |
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Aha! He's right! Afterall, he IS the deathbringer. xD Who knows, you might've doomed the person just by saying that. It'd be some cruel irony if that person does die in 2 years. 
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Andromeda
Posts: 119 Location: Florida |
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Sometimes I feel like I'm one of maybe five honest people on the whole internet *sigh*...
I first saw Excel Saga and Azumanga Daioh as fansubs. I loved them, so I'm now collecting ALL THE R1 DVDs. (Really, especially with Excel Saga, you're REALLY missing out if you just watch fansubs of it, because the DVDs are friggin awesome!! The ADVidnotes feature is fantastic, I love the contrast in experiencing dub/sub, and the menus and menu extras are hysterical... Here's to hoping ADV and it's DVD programming house, m.o.f.c., keep up the good work on other series!). I even still bought the second volume of Excel Saga after having seen all of the episodes on the disc as fansubs. Why? Because I like to support the industry, support the creators, and... did I mention that the ES DVDs are friggin awesome!? I first saw the uncut, subbed 2-part finale of Sailor Moon season one as a fansub... about a month before I heard ADV was releasing the uncut subbed box set. Watching that made me cry, it was actually that good... but I still respected the official liscensors. I didn't manage to get the uncut season 1 and 2 box sets until well over a year later, but I still taped over my fansub tapes and shelled out the $100 to Right Stuf to have a legal (and somewhat higher quality) copy (plus, I got the rest of the seasons ;)). I've been watching Sailor Moon Stars and have started watching the SM live-action series and Maria-sama Ga Miteru as fansubs. I have ALL of Stars as a fansub, but damned if I wouldn't go out and buy any DVD of Stars, if it should ever be released, that has an uncut subbed version on it. Ditto for the TV special "Ami-chan no Hatsukoi", which will probably never, ever be released officially and uncut over here, but which I would buy if it were, because I enjoyed it and would like to support the makers and purveyors of it. Ditto for MariMite, which is a lovely little series that Geneon has a hand in somehow, so I bet they'll release it, in which case, I will certainly buy it. I do the same thing with mp3 - I'll download for free, and if I like the song, and like several other songs by the artist (my minumum is about three or four songs), then I buy the album. This got even better with iTunes (though it IS eating a hole in my wallet!). iTunes gives you small samples, and the songs are only a dollar anyway. If it weren't for fileshare, I would not have discovered and fallen in love with Dido, and if it weren't for iTunes and fileshare both, I would not have discovered Aimee Mann or O-Zone (odd little guilty pleasure of mine; they're basically a Romanian boy band that does of all things, dance/disco with a strange little folk music-y twist). If it were not for fansubs, I would not have discovered MariMite, Excel Saga or Asumanga Daioh. As an (inexperienced and unsuccessful, granted) independent animation (I hesitate to say "anime", though that is sort of the style I work in) maker, I can say that, when it comes to my own work, I wouldn't mind fansubs of say, the first four or five episodes of a long series, or the first two or three of a shorter one, so long as the whole darn series isn't available for free at the click of a button. Save for SM Stars, I own no series in fansub form in its entirety, and that only because I doubt it will ever be released uncut and because it was actually a gift from a friend once... all other series I have merely tried a few episodes. You can tell after a few episodes if you will probably enjoy it or not, I know I can :). Seriously... I have never understood why fansubbers don't just do the first few episodes -especially nowadays, when it's actually pretty easy to let companies know what you're interested in - and then encourage people to get the series liscensed. This way, you share it, but you aren't providing possible means of ripping the whole series off for some people. If you yourself are fansubbing it, you obviously know some Japanese and can already enjoy it in its original form, so why not, if you lvoe it so much, simply convince others to help you get it liscensed? That said... I cannot view R2 DVDs, my R1 player will not let me. So I'm afraid that certain niche or older series might not get released in a way where I can try them out anyway... but anyway, I'm more than happy to buy something I've enjoyed. :) -Andromeda |
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Sword of Whedon
Posts: 683 |
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There are plenty of cheap models that can be hacked for R2 playback, and hacking your DVD-ROM is simple as pie. |
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MTierce
Posts: 33 |
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It seems people still don't understand my eariler post about cost in the US vs Japan.
For example: Let's say I move to Japan, and buy a TV. I can plug it in, and watch the sohws that I am currently watching fansubbed: Melody of Oblivion, Gundam Seed: Destiny, Geshiken, Naruto, and Soukyuu no Fafner. I can watch all these series in their entirety without paying anyone a dime. (Except for my cable bill, if any of these shows are only on cable. But the cable bill covers many channels.)I also have the option to watch ANY other series that I want to, also for free.If I want a copy I can tape them. (GSD I've already decided to buy, but that dosen't have any bearing on this argument) Now, I live in America. In America, in order to legally watch the shows that I want to(which is impossible since they are not available) I would need to pay (assuming prices are standard) $150-$200 for Soukyuu no Fafner, around $80 for Genshiken, close to $300 for GSD, $150-$200 for Melody of Oblivion, and God only knows how much for Naruto. Anything else I want to watch, I have to pay extra for. So thats at least $680 plus whatever Naruto would be for the shows that I watch regularly. Plus I get to wait however long it takes to get the entire show out. Granted, at the end of this, I would have a copy of each of these shows that I could do whatever I please with, but the only one of these shows that I really WANT a copy of is GSD and maybe Genshiken. If I didn't want I high quality copy, in Japan I could tape each of these hows off TV, keep them forever, and thats perfectly legal. So Japan: $0 dollars beyond the Television and Cable. Americia: Big bucks. Plus I have nowhere near the selection. So yes, we pay more for the INITIAL viewing The only real argument against this is the rental argument. That would seem to bring the price more in line. But thats not how most American anime fans view anime, and if most fans did, do you think the US companies would be okay with that? Large amounts of people renting = big profits for the rental store, and a smaller share for the actual creators. |
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cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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some of them dont even need to be "hacked" just as simple as opening the tray pressing a few buttons boom r0 dvd player. my el cheapo walmart special Cyberhome came r1 now r0 and perfectly legal to do. |
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eXistenZ
Posts: 6 |
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Fair Use? uh that is so undefined in a court of law, anything from 1% to 100% could be ruled fair use, depending on the situation.
ah Morals. Arguing morals is like arguing what came first, the chicken or the egg. Is downloading fansubs illegal? Yes. Is downloading fansubs morally wrong? Depends on your morals. You cant dictate someone elses morals, each of us has our own, what one person may find moral offensive, another may find not. People could say its morally right to kill others, who are you to tell them that there morals are wrong? If someone steals a loaf of bread to feed themselves, is it morally wrong, or is it just illegal. What if someone steals a truckload of bread to feed many for free, is it still morally wrong? One fansub comes to mind where the anime company thanked the Fansub community for making its release popular. Battle Programmer Shirase, unless the fansubber didn't translate what exactly what was said. Was it still morally wrong to fansub the series and watch it? Also someone mentioned why is it only that news like this mentioned about fansubs, why not incluse an article about what i previously said. Previews and Reviews are just that, and are geared towards someones bias. There have been great previews of many things, showing the exciting and what not, the reviews are biased towards the reviewers likes and dislikes. There are great movies that recieved bad reviews, and bad movies that have made good reviews. If i choose to download a fansubbed series and watch it all they way through, and buy or not buy the dvds based on that experience, that is my choice. Just as you do with your choice. If the anime companys were hurting so hard, from lack of sales they wouldnt create even more anime to watch, they have to be making money, or else the industry would be shrinking. There is a link on page 14 of this thread which points to an ask john article, where in his opinion as a industry employee, the popularity of a fansub has a direct correlation on its sales. So i conclude, that without fansubs the anime industry in North America would implode on itself. If you can find infomation that disputes his opinion then please post it. I dont think the anime industry would completely disappear, but i do think we would all be stuck with watching the latest incarnation of yugioh or pokemon. why, because thats what would sell due to popularity with general america. I doubt the fansubbing scene raised awareness about those shows. |
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