Forum - View topicDance in the Vampire Bund (TV).
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rainbowcourage
 Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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okay...we've got two aspects going on here. One is the fact that there is blatant pedophilia slapped down in the middle of an otherwise respectable (even potentially high-quality) show, and the other is that I think you're confusing quantity with quality. Just because this isn't some fanservice ecchi shenanigans, and therefore doesn't have as frequent fanservice, doesn't account for the detail of the actual fanservice. I mean, they drew nipples. I don't watch ecchi but from what I understand there are usually clever hand placements over breasts, and the male protagonist does not assertively lotion up said little girl. This was just shocking and bold and...so very yucky. I really wish the director had cut this aspect out of the show. |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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Hmm, it's not pedophilia as long as there's no sexual relationship/fantasies between an underaged character and an adult character. So far, she's been shown naked and even had that sort of gel applied, and from my little understanding about human behavior, applying gel isn't considered any kind of sexual interaction, perhaps yes if you're dirty minded. "Pedophilia" is being overused in this case, if you want to call it something please do call it lolicon or something on that group.
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Skylark
 Posts: 827 Location: ORE NO TSHIRT |
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If that makes you feel better about it, whatever. But you can't say there was no sexual connotation involved, she removed her clothing to reveal a rather lewd set of panties and when the guy gulped, she said "What, you have no problem applying it to a child's body, right?" with a pretty obvious sarcastic ring to her voice, and then as he put his hands all over her body he was blushing and looking away. No matter how you look at it there was sexual connotation to this scene (when have you ever seen a lotion massage scene with a naked girl that wasn't intended to arouse). I could be wrong but people getting off over naked children or whatever comes under pedophilia, maybe not from the schoolkid who is applying the gel to the young girl but from the audience to the young girl yes.
This was obviously put in to appease some sort of demographic (I mean why the hell else would they put it in there for) but I don't want to associate with the demographic for whom this kind of thing pleases. It was completely unnecessary to the plot to show it explicitly and I don't think anyone here enjoyed having it on their screen for any length of time. People go to jail in Australia for having this kind of thing in their possession. It crosses the boundary from art in good taste to art in extremely poor taste in my opinion. |
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egoist
Posts: 7762 |
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A discussable tone as always. You see, I don't care how you see me as, nor how your neighbour sees me as, nor how my mom sees me as, nor how my ferret sees me as, nor do I care about what kind of person I'm considered by any sort of lifeform given what kind of show I'm watching, because I sincerely couldn't care less. So, please don't go assuming that I'm trying to sexually pleasure myself by saying that this isn't pedophilia. 
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Skylark
Posts: 827 Location: ORE NO TSHIRT |
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I wasn't even close to trying to single you out as a person who would get off over this, what I meant by that is whatever makes you feel better about having seen it. I know I feel pretty dirty for even having witnessed it. I'm not calling anyone a pedophile and I find it hard to believe anyone could get off over this, but go read the related articles on sankaku complex; people have and are.
Having read those articles though, I am going to drop this series right now. It's manga source is worse than this with the whole 11 year old naked vampire thing, and apparently the anime is supposed to progress from here, so I'm out. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Yes. Like they were so caught up in getting the dark atmosphere of the story that they forgot about making it clear to people what was going on. Kind of like Witch Hunter Robin did. Regarding Mina's nakedness, despite her obviously coming on to Akira, I didn't find it that sexual, somehow. I'm not trying to make the argument that it wasn't inappropriate or not intended to be fanservicey, just that that's not the feeling it generated for me. |
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egoist
Posts: 7762 |
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All I'm saying is that the anime itself isn't pedophilia, but I never said some viewers aren't watching with such intentions. Plus I'm getting quite tired of people going around and simply calling stuff by exaggerated words. A young character doesn't make a whole show lolicon, nor does a single moe character make a show moe. If that was the case, Harry Potter would be considered a retarded movie, for retards, just like McDonalds.
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15480 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I guess I will note that I used to feel dirty about owning my copy of Moon Phase, but I think I have become de-sensitised to a lot of things such as fanservice and such. I don't watch show often with it in mind, I have seen ecchi shows, but I think I am usualy more interested to see how such subjects are played in with a story. I get a bit sick of sterile cartoons, and I guess something that has an element of taboo to it makes it a bit interesting. That being said, I often dislike when all a show has going for it is fanservice or forbiden topics, and I can't stand it when people start complaining about too much censorship.
I didn't feel the gel scene as sexual, I felt it more as trying to convey that Akira had suddenly been thrown into an awkward situation. I think it was meant to shock the audince into starting to feel an extra amount of feeling guilty. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Of course, there is the whole point that there was no need to use gel so close to sunset; they could have just waited a little longer. Furthermore, even if she needed gel, he put it on parts of her body that her clothes would cover up anyway. So why did he put gel on her body at all? Why did he not just put it on her hands and face?
Because this was fanservice, plain and simple. And you can't deny it no matter which side of the "Is this Lolicon" debate you are on. By the way, I liked episode one. Well, apart from the guy turning into a lizard; vampires turn into bats, not reptiles. Or spiders for that matter. Last edited by dtm42 on Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nargun
Posts: 925 |
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You can easilly get sunburnt through clothing, you know. Anyway. After watching the scene I really think it'd be difficult to set it up any other way: we're seeing Mina use her body to make someone uncomfortable and thus gain power over the situation [because she's a powerful however-old-she-is being and gaining power over situations is how she's lived that long] but you don't -- or at least I don't -- get the impression that it means anything to her beyond that: she's not a conventionally sexual being. She's a child. None of the usual connotations of childhood; she's not weak, or ignorant, or unskilled, or vulnerable, in any meaningful way. But she is a child. [note what a scrawny body she has. Compare and contrast with your usual run of loli hentai manga. [ha! I told the magistrate it was for research!]] EDIT: damn unmatched parentheses. Last edited by nargun on Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15480 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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In fact the idea of bats were some belifes that they were evil mesengers of the devil with nature simular to vampires, though bats are usualy very shy creatures and far from what vampires are thought of. My personal favirout is of cats who are more simular in nature, Japan even has myths of creatures simular to vampires who often took the form of a two tailed cat. Sorry I just have an intrest in vampires and I get really anoyed when people say that vampires have to be conected to bats rather then any other animal. Though I was just excited because I thought that a modern fiction had finaly decided to ignore the too common trend that vampires are like bats. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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No no, you don't need to apologise. I didn't know that vampires in older legends could turn into creatures other than bats. So thanks for telling me all that, as it raises my appreciation of the Anime more. |
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wicked86
Posts: 30 Location: DE |
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I'm glad a friend introduced the manga to me, that'll make it much easier on the mind if they decide to release the anime over(I hope).
Normally, I don't think of myself as a Vampire-anything-fan, but I do like this series mainly for the fact that it seems to have a good deal of depth. The nudity doesn't bother me. Theres explanation for it and that it is enough for me be okay with it. |
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the Rancorous
 Posts: 2248 Location: Hunting the Dragon in Gransys |
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Well, sunlight can and does still carry through clothing. Unless Mina was wearing about 5 layers, then I don't see how a simple dress with sunglasses can blot out the suns' effect. I don't deny that the gel-spreading scene was meant as lolli-pandering, but it was at least in better taste than what I saw in a certain other series which I already mentioned, and that's fine with me... 
As for vampires and their transformations... Oh man, can you have fun with that!!! White Wolf proved this with spades! Also, I actually did a research paper on the origins of the vampire legend during my senior year in high-school, and hot-damn were there so many legends and theories to choose from! Vampires date back to Biblical times for cryin' out loud! |
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Penguin_Factory
 Posts: 732 Location: Ireland |
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Maybe we have different ideas of what "over sexualized" means, but to me it totally was. I don't have a problem with nudity if it makes sense in context, but is there any actual reason for Mina to be running around half naked all the time? And of course there's the gel scene, which is in there solely to explain how she can run around half naked. If there is some plausible explanation for all of this I just missed, I will gladly admit that I was being too judgemental, but at the moment this feels like pandering to lolicon fans. I don't care at all if people like looking at that stuff, but it's annoying to see it intruding so blatently on an otherwise interesting story. |
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