Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2010-01-08]
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||||||||||||
Well...if you really want to nitpick, even if there's a gun to your head you aren't 'forced' to do anything. You could just let him shoot you. Generally though when you say someone is forced, there is an implied qualifier. Examples: I'm forced to download Legend of the Galactic Heroes (assuming I want to watch it). I'm forced to turn to piracy (assuming I want to watch anime). You can debate the validity of those statements but it's sort of pointless to nitpick the term forced. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
4nBlue
|
|
|||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
vashfanatic
 Posts: 3490 Location: Back stateside |
|
|||||||||||||||
Legend of the Galactic Heroes and other older series that licensers won't touch are the best argument for fansubs - not new series that have a very strong chance of getting licensed or streamed (though given how Viz has decided to completely switch around the soundtrack of Monster, I'm glad I have old fansubs of that until an unmodified version is available). I still hope that some of these studios will take the route of Toei and post their older series online; in the meantime, we get lousy-video-quality-often-filled-with-typos fansubs. "Forcing" isn't necessarily the write term; companies aren't actively trying to screw us over, they know these series just won't sell enough to be worth the cost. With newer shows, it's more about patience...though at this point I'm starting to suspect anime like Mononoke, Mind Game, and Kaiba don't have an ice cube's chance in hell of being licensed either. And let's not even start on the licensing mess that is Macross... I'm not being as clear as I should be, I suppose. I support the responsible use of fansubs as a last resort, but believe you should always try to do things legally first and should rejoice when things get licensed (so long as they don't hack apart the soundtrack; yes, I'm bitter). |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
|
|||||||||||||||
Far from being definite, the notion of a 'human element' leaves me in want of a formal conceptualisation of art by your standards. Do you wish to connote a relation, presumably causal, between the elements of the work itself and the affections you entertain? Conversely, the notion that certain authorial motivations prevent the resulting work from bearing any artistic quality —by your utterance of the term— seems stipulated and ad hoc. By my utterance of the term 'artistic', I shall admit that it seems appropriate to impose conditions upon the authorial intention of the works whose artworthiness (to coin a phrase) is in question, but I do not impose restrictions nearly as strong as those you do. Consider this: For any product of human effort, if its creator wishes to exclusively entertain those inclined towards guro (where 'guro' is here used as a placeholder for an aggregate of more determinable properties), then the product is not art. If I read you correctly, this is analogous to the view you present. I have no problem with such a view, provided you're happy to assert that, within the context of your own utterances of 'art', you do not intend to connote the same properties (be they intrinsic or relational) as other people might do, and vice versa. This is because the sentence in italics is, under such conditions, just part of the establishment of the meaning of a word as you wish to use it, which by your usage may not have the same intension (sic) as when used meaningfully by others. On the contrary, if you hope that I should adhere to the rule in italics when I use the word 'art' —which is to say, that the limitations I place upon authorial intention when I judge whether or not something is art ought to be the same as yours— then I object. I must note that, due to its tendency to depict violence and suffering, I do not like guro. At present, much of it is technically illegal in my country anyway. The conclusion that the set of all works of art contains no works of guro —as a wholly subject-independent matter of fact— is not however implied by this. Some may consider their unpleasant reactions to it as being sufficient to establish that it is not art by the semantics of their utterances, but others may react and define otherwise, and I wish not to deprive a person of their ability to determine the meaning of their words as they please. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
dewlwieldthedarpachief
 Posts: 751 Location: Canada |
|
|||||||||||||||
I would like to add that there has to be a point at which something is so far removed from it's rights holders and the audience that obtaining it without their consent is no longer an act of piracy. Like the idea of public domain, except from an ethical standpoint and not a legal one. Some of the things that come up on Buried Treasure simply no longer are produced with no promising future prospects of them being available (in Japan even). In that case, why not take matters into our own hands? For the same reasons we would honor an artist's blood, sweat, and tears by contributing money to an official release we should support their work through non-official means if it comes to pass that they cannot get the ball rolling on their end. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||||||||||||
I'm not sure why you think any of that follows either what I said or what Evan said. I am not and nor would he appear to be disagreeing in any way. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
vashfanatic
Posts: 3490 Location: Back stateside |
|
|||||||||||||||
I'm just using you as a platform to do my usual pitches for LotGH and for not being a dick with fansubs.  Also, I was on my way out of the house as I posted that, and I didn't have much time to refine it. Ignore it if you like. 
|
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
nx6
 Posts: 62 Location: Midwest U.S. |
|
|||||||||||||||
I'm going to have to call BS on this. I just finished watching Noir on DVD recently, each volume had 3-4 episodes (except volume one which had five, I think to fit an entire story arc on one disc) and even the discs with only three episodes used 6 GB of space, meaning they were dual-layer. I didn't look at the extras on every disc, but all they included was a few ADV licenced series trailers. And I wouldn't be suprised if I found my Cowboy Bebop Remix volumes to be dual layer, either. This is just Funi being cheap. Amusing since they re-released Ergo Proxy in a four disc Veridan box set only a year after re-releasing the six disc box set Geneon had done (requiring remastering and pressing of discs, packaging, etc), but completely ignoring people asking for a BluRay set of an anime that was produced in high-def from the beginning. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||||||||||
No, you are NOT forced to download Galactic Heroes. You COULD do without it. Watching it or not watching it isn't a matter of life or death. Just because you have the means (fansubs) of seeing it is the only reason you are doing so. Say you love a certain band. You HAVE to see all the performances you can. Your ability to see every show on a tour will be limited by your cash, ability to get by without working the length of the tour, etc. (Some Deadheads manages this to various lengths) it's the same for anime. Fansubs have just allowed people to see something they ordinarily would have no chance of seeing. Trust me--in the dark days I knew of people who would do things like book a night in a hotel in an area to see a tv show that wasn't showing in their reception area (We're talking 70's & '80's) I paid $800 for my first VCR around 1983--we didn't have the ability to record & watch shows. If you listen to older fans about the early days of fansubs it is VASTLY different. Those old scratchy VHS tapes lovingly passed(sold) around had far less reach than the modern internet transmit mode. There are so many shows that have been licensed or are now available on legal streams. There's really no reason to resort to fansubs. No one is putting a gun to your head.
Really? I grew up on My Mother the Car, Captain Nice, Flintstones, Wild Wild West. Is Dancing with the Stars that much more sophisticared than Ed Sullivan? Survivor that much better than Truth or Consequences?
I seem to recall the recent threat of Fox vanishing from Time Warner over trying to cut a deal to contend with the way television is changing in the US. It seems OUR studios are also stuck in the old ways of doing things in many ways, struggling to survive Not unlike many brick-&-mortar stores. I was at Best Buy & I really see dvds vanishing from the place. It's just not viable to keep shows on the shelf collecting dust until someone wanders in to maybe purchase a copy. My daughter wanted the Venture Brothers Season 2-out if stock & not coded to be in stock-online is her only option.
Not really. There have been other experiments. Dead Leaves comes to mind (I disliked it, but I recall press at the time proclainming it a bold blend of wester & eastern animation styles). Gankutsuou. Have you seen the Goblin Cat segment of Ayakashi? That was very interesting.
I can see a dif between pre-2000 anime & post 2000 anime & I have astigmatism & need to get bifocals. You may want to make a dr appointment.
Really? Megazone 23 was interesting, but I don't think it can touch Ghost in the SHell or some of the other titles that have come out this decade
We had The Flintstones when I was a child. Now we have the Simpsons & Family Guy. My daughter watched Invader Zim, Rugrats, Doug, Hey Arnold & Power Puff Girls. Can you say whatever's on now for kids to watch is more sophisticated? Smallville & Supernatiural have superior characterization to Buffy, Angel, & Briscoe County Jr?
Our fanboys that much different from Trekkies back in the 60's? You're sounding bored. Or Jaded. Probably both |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||||||||||||
Do you...read? "I'm forced to download Legend of the Galactic Heroes (assuming I want to watch it)." I mean, you've completely failed to observe the very main point I am making and then proceed to parrot it back as if you're correcting me. It is painfully obvious that I do not 'have to' download fansubs in the literal sense. What I am saying is that it is meaningless to nitpick over such a distinction. Nobody means it that way. People mean they have to do it assuming some qualifier such as that they want to watch the show.
Oh good. Would you be a dear and link me to these legal streams of LotGH? Thanks. Seriously though, don't try to exaggerate. Increased streaming of anime is great but you can't possibly try to claim that there isn't still a ton of stuff out there that is totally unavailable to people without resorting to fansubs. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
eyevocal
Posts: 137 |
|
|||||||||||||||
Yeah, which is what Pioneer's original singles did, and they looked crap. You're skirting your point, which is you claiming that Media Blasters uses single layer for 4-ep DVDs even now.
Still waiting for the check...
Proof and examples, please? Plonk those discs which are actually on the market now into your DVD-ROM/RW drive like I and others here have and let us know how big they are.
Erm, no, they don't. Media Blasters does not strip or squeeze titles for their collections. They use the original discs the singles did--and even the same single cases in a thin sleeve on first re-release.
Yeah, yeah. My point remains that Funimation's 7-ep discs look awful, and I'm not the only one to notice that. I still feel strongly that they should stop cramming, recall all their crammed discs, re-release their 12-13-ep sets on three discs instead of two and get people who actually know how to encode well to do their discs from now on. And keep and list all the bloody extras. Watson. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
John Casey
 Posts: 1853 Location: In My Angry Center |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
Hahahahaha...ha....haha....ha...
The first time I saw guro....I laughed my ass off. Then I wanted to hurt myself for finding that crap funny.... But, Brian. :3 Here's the big question: Do you see art in exploitation movies? Such as....Dolemite, Cannibal Holocaust, She-Wolf of the SS, Hugo Stiglitz movies, or whatever else is out there...? Somehow, a woman spoiler[squirting out breast-milk which chops off a ninja's head] seems to fit snuggly into the exploitation sub-genre. I'm not saying I find that to be art, per say....but maybe the reasoning around art is even more vast than even your already-very-broad-view and opinion? Maybe even more than mine? |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||||||||||
Your turn not to read. If you are morally opposed to fansubs, you could choose to only watch legal streams or buy licensed product. As I pointed out with the concept of the impossibility of following a band to be able to see every performance on the tour short of being independantly wealthy or getting a job documenting the tour. It IS impossible to see every anime ever made. Not all are fansubbed, from what I understand & far less are licensed so until you complete your time machine &/or move to Japan, it is impossible to see every anime. Even if you lived in Japan, some titles are pay-per view or not carried in certain areas. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
If you believe that there's art in all things, how can you say that guro is not art? (Unless guro is not a thing...)
Also, I would say The Simpsons is far more sophisticated than The Flintstones many, many times over. Some of the most sophisticated moments on TV over the past 25 years came from The Simpsons. The Flintstones was originally a show about pop culture references, non-sequitur jokes playing the dominant role to the plot of each episode using limited animation techniques. This describes Family Guy pretty well too, Family Guy being a natural extension due to its more rapid editing and fewer limitations on its comedy. (I do think The Flintstones is the superior show though due to it being designed to last rather than Family Guy episodes being watch-now, forget-later affairs.) Then again, that was probably the point all along... I think what was originally meant was that shows like The Boondocks could not have possibly happened prior to the 21st century. It wallows itself in exaggerated gangsta behavior and a lot of swearing that would've been called out as disturbing and possibly frightening in any other era of television, though it does so to tell messages about racism and ignorance. And hey, Ben 10: Alien Force is done by the guy who contributed most of Justice League and the Cadmus arc of Justice League Unlimited, so I know there's sophisticated stuff coming from that show. I've also enjoyed Phineas and Ferb and Star Wars: Clone Wars and would say they're more sophisticated than the shows in the 90s. I do think anime has been much the same as last decade though. The shonen formula is still top dog, and there's still a strong voyeuristic tone to a large portion of anime that would probably make Laura Mulvey cringe.
The grass is always greener on the other side, I suppose. The same is true for cooking from other countries, that all these fancy exotic foods people seem to go ga-ga over are really not so special. I know that Italian marinara sauce was originally for the lowerclassmen; Pad Thai and tom yum soup are both dishes cobbled together from leftovers, much the way meatloaf is in the United States. We just love it so much because they seem new and original. Speaking of food, one thing I really don't want to eat that comes from Japan are the Instant Lunches and the Cup Noodles. I used to like them, and then I got saturated with them and grew sick of them like everybody else. It's odd that so many Americans think these are the only two kinds of ramen that exist and have never even heard of fresh ramen. There are so many people I would love to guide into an Asian supermarket and show them the dried noodles aisle (not all can be classified as ramen) and see how they'd feel about having hundreds of different types to choose from. The stuff from Paldo is icky, but...I don't think it's Japanese. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||||||||||||
You're...asking me to misunderstand your following point?
I don't see how this relates. It is impossible for me to see every anime. Yeah. I don't actually want to see every anime. There are however some anime I really want to watch that I can see thanks to fansubs that normally would be impossible for me to see. So to say there is 'no reason' to resort to fansubs is clearly inaccurate. You could argue that it's not right for me to resort to fansubs or that I don't have to watch fansubs but clearly there is a valid reason I would like to use them. I don't see how you can deny that. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group