Forum - View topicView on Moe.
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dgreater1
 Posts: 307 Location: in the Phillipine's AIR space with Misuzu |
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I'm not sure I understand what you mean by clarify. Clarify if to me they are moe or clarify if they act real to me? If it's the former then I'll say it again, because I've seen them, I've emphatized with their joys and struggles that's why I feel their Moeness. If it's the latter then that would be all personal opinions. I've seen kids who act the same way as Ushio. They act like that towards adults and at the same time, act like that to other kids the same age as them. I'm living in a really crowded country so I guess it's more likely a cultural thing. And about HellGirl, I'm sure you understand the psychological problems the people there are experiencing. Have you ever strongly feel you want someone dead? Blood related and Non-blood related? Well, I won't lie, I DO. The next question, if you have someone who'd kill that person for you, would you grab the chance? Well, for me, it depends. Seeing how the spoiler[locked-up twin girl was maltreated/abused by her master (father?) because of her jealous twin, I understand her hatred. The question, why would she be angry with her twin rather than with her master? Simple, it psychologically depends. Who's the cause of her suffering? Who's manipulating her master to punish her? If you make her choose between "send her master to hell" or "send her twin sister to hell," the possibility it's her twin is rather high.] Now if you ask me, how did I feel Moe towards her? Then like I said, because I've seen them, I've emphatized with their joys and struggles that's why I feel their Moeness. In short, I feel Moe because I feel it.
I use Moe because: 1) It encompasses different kinds of emotion. (eg. because you love her, because you admire her, you've been touched by their life, etc. etc.) And having that emotion towards a character mostly means you want to protect her, want her to be happy, want things around her to go smoothly, etc... Not just protect but others as well. 2) Mainly, it's to imply that the character you feel emotional about is a fictional character. Also, Moe is basically flexible. Much like other Japanese words, a single word could mean a lot. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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My definition of the word 'moe', as a term typically used to denote a universal, is no less tangible than the word 'happiness'. There exist concrete instances to correspond to each term, such instances existing qua the mental. I would be intrigued to learn of the publications you have in mind in making this comparison, in case they fall into my area of interest. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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First, because it is theoretically about female vulnerability from the male perspective, we can narrow down the concept to its practical definition... For instance, using your current avatar, the depiction of Faye from Bebop is far different from any given character in most Kyoto Animation produced shows. It's an interesting reference point for those of us who feel you can call a show "moe" based on intention just as much as -- if rather than -- a viewer response. Second, because I feel it's useful to always try to understand what something is supposed to be about according to supporters of it. I think it's fair to both sides when they understand the others' views, so any arguments made are more reasonable and less prone to going around in circles (see: anytime moe is brought up negatively on AnimeOnDVD's forum, where neither side comes out particularly happy after it all).
There's probably some ridiculous publication I could find, tho'... |
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Zin5ki
Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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I admit there are tendencies for a causal relationship to obtain between certain traits and the terms you list. However, this only demonstrates that certain persons will entertain 'manliness' (or better put, will be appeared to in a manly manner) upon being presented with certain physical traits. In order to show that something exhibiting a given set of physical traits is necessary for it to bear manliness tout court, thereby asserting a universal constitutive relation between the 'gel' of traits and the true manifestations of the properties we wish to define, more imposing premises must be presented.
As things stand, advocates of response-dependence still have leeway for defining the terms you state in the manner they wish, for they may happily accept that given physical traits might cause qualifying responses amongst certain subjects, without accepting that such traits just are the terms being defined. Now, I remain undecided about whether I should apply such a theory to 'manliness', chiefly due to there being a degree of appropriateness (as vague a word as that is) in connoting such a term with properties also connoting 'maleness'. Extending such an approach to the other terms you list might be less problematic, however. Certainly, this shows there is more for me to discuss and develop. Still, I'm aware that my vague psycho-semantic Spiel is now being generalised in such a manner as to no longer chiefly concern 'moe'. Unlike dgreater1, who has remained on-topic in defending the definition they propose, and whose views are somewhat akin to my own in places, I am not in a position to further discuss the definition I advocate without having to consider the application of its axioms to properties dissimilar to moeness. (I would nonetheless like to do so, for I expect that a response-dependant account of certain general properties —those pertaining to notions of quality— would facilitate a simple vindication of my moe fandom in fase of criticism such an inclination might encounter.) Alas, such discussion would, at best, remain at the periphery of what would be relevant for me to contribute. |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3882 Location: New York state. |
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Never realized "moe" was classified as a feeling over characters within a work. I always thought it was some sort of genre or categorization given to an anime title due to how female characters were drawn and/or portrayed to be innocent, cute, weak and/or submissive.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Well, the feeling came first, obviously, but the whole Moe "genre" (that term is not universally agreed-upon) sprung up to take advantage of the feeling. |
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Ggultra2764
Subscriber Posts: 3882 Location: New York state. |
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I was under the mentality throughout the debate that the subject of "moe" had to do with the latest trend of adventure game spinoffs and comedies that made use of specific female character designs and archetypes to hook in viewers. If I realized it was a debatable feeling felt towards any anime characters, then I wouldn't have bothered arguing since from my understanding, the various different interests of each anime fan will make them feel a different way towards an anime character. |
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RedLeader
 Posts: 310 |
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Wow. What a hornet's nest. :\ I'd better keep this short and simple. ^^;
No, I don't like Moe for a couple reasons... Chief among them is that I just don't care for shows about the daily lives of girls. I got interested in anime for all the fantastical things that anime can do and shows about normal people, living normal lives just aren't interesting to me. The other reason is that, as many other people have already mentioned, it's kinda eating up the industry. More and more shows these days either seemed to be geared to girls or people that like to watch shows about girls. As such, the types of anime I normally watch aren't being produced as much, if at all. And when new stuff comes out, it gets over shadowed by whatever new moe or shoujo are out which also leads into making me feel isolated as an anime fan. :\ I'm not saying it shouldn't exist and I'm sure as HELL not going anywhere near the whole lolicon aspect but... It's taken over. It's taken over the Japanese industry and is leaking into the American industry and leaves people like me with not much to watch. And that's really what it comes down to. For me, it almost seem like a barrier now, keeping other kinds of shows from being made. Perhaps that's not a fair characterization, but that's how I feel. :\ And as far as moe characters in other series, I've never really noticed any... The closest I can think of is maybe Noriko Takaya because she starts out as a likable clutz but... She grows up. She grows up and becomes one of the most bad ass Super Robot pilots around so she probably doesn't count. :p Actually, I think in pretty much most of the anime I watch, the females are always fairly strong and able to take care of themselves. BTW, someone, a LOT of pages back mentioned Moe as being anti-masculine and suggested someone's work... I'd like to take on to that the works of Go Nagai, Masamune Shirow, and Leiji Matsumoto. THEY'LL put hair on your chest! 
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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I apologize for having to bring this topic back up, but I felt this pertinent yet not deserving of it's own topic:
The word moe has clearly lost any objective meaning. A number of shows have moe listed as a theme in ANN's encyclopedia, whether because of their aesthetic style or their storytelling method. Neither of those could possibly be confused with Naruto, which is about a ninja in an orange jump suit who battles other ninja with flashy powers. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Taken care of. Gets my vote for most moronic error I've seen this year, so far.
- abunai |
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RHachicho
 Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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Has moe become some kind of intangible quantum phenomenon!? this is incredible we must send pictures of moe girls to Nasa so their proud theoretical physicists can harness the power of moe to exceed lightspeed and send our species out among the stars!
Imagine it the great space battleships of the future will have moe hyperdrives that feed moe energy into the hyper moe cannons (or should i say moe kanon?) to obliterate our enemies or at least make them laugh until their brains boil out of their ears. Fear the Moe Kanons! @ Abunai thnx man lol you made my hungover morning.
Last edited by RHachicho on Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:25 am; edited 2 times in total |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Well, this is not an imageboard, so let this be an exception. After all, it had to be done:
- abunai |
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kawaiibunny3
 Posts: 534 Location: Houston, Texas |
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Hm. well. I don't really mind moe characters.
But if the entire female cast is moe, then I probably won't like the show, there's only so much feebleness and daintiness I can handle. But if one or two girls (or boys) that fit into the moe category I don't mind. I also think the designs and art for moe girls are cute (of course there are exceptions to this), like for some eroge and what not. As long as they don't open their mouths, I don't care. Favorite Moe girl? Rena from Higurashi & Hotaru from Sailor Moon (she still counts right?) |
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torreyjs
 Posts: 76 |
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I strongly dislike moe anime (Id say hate but people would probably argue to death over saying I hated something).
First let me be clear in that I am happy that anime has found something that sometimes makes money. Moe can make money (though thankfully its starting to lose that appeal and therefore getting less popular in regards to floods of new moe anime decreasing). However, I dont know, to me Moe takes a step back. Its almost always poorly animated, and seems to be lolicon dressed as innocent girls in school. Its geared towards kids in middle school and/or highschool it seems. And 8 years ago Id probably have watched a moe or two for some slice of life drama anime but now I could care less about stories involving someone whos afraid to tell their crush they like them or dont get invited to a dance or are afraid of failing the next big test in poetry class. I dont know if I wanted to I could sit here and type so much on why I dislike moe I could hit the text limit on a post here for this forum. So to keep it short and not shooting off in a million different directions like the Naruto storyline, I dislike its loli geared towards kids - highschool theme. And 99% of moe anime is all girl, because that sells to pervs in japan basically or young kids who will buy the licensed products related to the anime - which is how any moe actually makes money, those creepy half hentai body pillows and posters etc. My big annoyance for moe is what I fear can happen. If you look at what is getting released this year in Japan the list of titles is shrinking and more of it is moe to try and make money. Hopefully 10 years down the road our anime doesnt consist of 5 or 6 new titles a year with all but one not being moe. That would be the total death of anime. |
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Hideyoshilover1
 Posts: 27 |
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Tis da awesome
{Tis da lame excuse for a post. We don't expect you to be brilliant, but we do expect you to try. - abunai} |
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