Forum - View topicShelf Life - MMMHolic
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist
Posts: 598 |
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The Electric Company wasn't on anymore when I was a kid, but I think I could work in a reference to The Land of Make-Believe.
But then I'd have to get up from the couch! (Unless I get an iPhone). Mostly I watch the anime over the weekend, and early in the week, so by now I've watched everything for next week's column except for a few more episodes of Sands of Destruction.
I lolled. (Real high school girls spend a lot of time removing unsightly body hair.)
I'd have to review the DVDs to give it a Shelf Worthy.
Although it seems like Kanako might be forced to love Mariaya, the anime doesn't go that way. Kanako is attracted to Mariaya when he acts like a cute girl... but that's it. Fortunately Mariaya drops out of the spotlight towards the end. The best episodes are the ones he isn't in.
I think Kanako is a teenager with a healthy interest in sex. I don't think she's particularly perverted, just preoccupied with sex. A lot of teens are preoccupied with sex, so I don't think that's abnormal. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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You're speaking from personal experience, I presume? Anyway, since you seem to have skipped over a point I made, I'll reiterate:
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LaFreccia
Posts: 324 |
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As a person who gets utterly bored with shonen fighting shows (I gave up on Bleach, One Piece, & FMA, I can't even imagine watching DBZ) I heard enough to tell me not to watch Soul Eater.
MariaHolic was something I checked out a while back and could not stand. I understand the emotions expressed by many (e.g. Joketsu). I was bullied a lot from grade school through high school. I do not find sadism funny or sexy. At the end of one episode I simply couldn't go on. I'm not gonna say it's crap. I'm not gonna say it's evil. I am going to say I won't watch it. Girl's High had some unique humor, and I totally know what Erin meant by "realistic", but having watched it once, I have never been motivated to watch it again. I compare that to Azumanga Daioh, that I have watched over and over. I know Erin wasn't reviewing DVDs, but I have a hard time thinking of Girl's High as Shelf-worthy, when I compare the replay value of Azumanga Daioh. One aspect mentioned is the soundtrack - Azumanga Daioh has one of the best, I listen to some of it on my iPod at least once a week. As a result, despite the unconventional humor, I personally can't see Girl's High getting past Rental. |
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neocloud9
Posts: 1178 Location: Atlanta, GA |
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That's...not at all what they were saying. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Posts: 23799 |
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I was interested in some of the reactions to Maria Holic in this thread, so out of curiosity I decided to watch the first few episodes. Gee, I guess I must be a horrible homophobe and misogynist because I liked it. One of the things that seems obvious to me is that Kanako isn't a lesbian at all, notwithstanding her nasal profusion every time she sees a pretty female face.
It seems clear that Kanako was teased a lot by boys when she was young for being so tall and as a reaction came to hate boys to the point of getting hives when touched by one. So I don't see this as example of a "confused lesbian" being tortured until she thinks she's in love with a boy - more like the experience she goes through with Mariya makes her realize eventually that she actually was a het all along. (I assume that's where this is going, as I say, I've only watched the first two eppies.) It also seems clear to me that Mariya's treatment of Kanako isn't 100% sadistic - he does nice things for her as well, which obviously Kanako picks up on. But yeah, I guess if you've been a picked on lesbian I can understand why this series would rub you the wrong way. |
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vashfanatic
Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Ah, but here you stumble across the big problem that comes to my mind whenever I hear about this series: that is probably the biggest ignorant belief about lesbians that you'll find in Japan and many other places. Since romantic friendships are allowed when you're young when boys can be intimidating, there's an implicit assumption that you "grow out of it" and become straight like everyone else. Any woman who stays interested in women has either 1) not met the right man yet or 2) suffered some awful trauma in her past that makes her not like men. Hence if your interpretation of Kanako is the intended one, that just makes it even worse, perpetuating the idea that girls will only like other girls until they learn to like boys. And you don't have to be a put-upon lesbian to feel awkward about this series, just savvy on the kind of crap homosexuals frequently go through in life. I don't think your comfort with this series makes you a homophobe by any means, but I think that you and a lot of others here just aren't aware of the painful Unfortunate Implications. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Posts: 23799 |
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Naturally, different life experiences will result in individual viewers having different prisms through which they view shows, leading to different reactions. So while it is perfectly true that my experiences as a het male may make me blind to aspects of MH, is it not equally possible that a differing prism might make somebody else over-sensitive to aspects of the show - in effect seeing a message that may not be really there?
I lay down this challenge to you, vashfanatic. Watch the first two eppies of MH and see if it is homophobic and misogynist in your opinion. I'd genuinely be interested in your reaction. |
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Joketsu
Posts: 23 |
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So very much this. I've been told constantly I'm only doing it to be trendy and that I just need a man to set me straight (in more ways than one). You don't "grow out of it." It's like saying you grew out of eating ice cream because you grew up and don't want to touch the sinful stuff anymore no matter how much you like it. Class S stuff bothers me, but like you said, this isn't just in Japan, it's all over the world. It's prevalent in every society, it's just more noticeable in some than it is in others. I love guys. I relate more to them than I do other women. I'm very gruff and tomboyish and gung-ho, I just cannot and will not ever see them as desirable romantically or sexually. My responses to guys (unfortunately, they are the majority of people who act like this) who do this are basically "Make a list of what you like in girls and you'll find it's the same for me. We're not so different after all." and "Perhaps you haven't found the right guy yet either." You'd be surprised how fast both arguments shut them up. I really hope people don't see stuff like this and think this is how homosexuals actual operate in real life. It's my biggest worry about media; too many people are impressionable to it and take away the wrong messages from it. I'd like to have faith that people won't, but some idiot is going to do it eventually. All I can do is hope the creator gives it the ending it deserves, but I know better. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Posts: 23799 |
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First, I don't think there are very many people who watch absurdist comedies like Maria Holic and think that they in any way show how things operate in real life. Second, as I've already said, I don't think an attentive viewer will truly view Kanako as a lesbian. |
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rinmackie
Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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I've been following this Mariaholic discussion just of curiosity. And I just wanted to say I understand why there are two different opinions. Real lesbians are not Mariaholic's intended audience; men who like yuri are. So if you're looking for realistic and sensitive portrayals of lesbians, this is not the show for you. With that in mind, it's understandable why Blood seems to like this show and Joketsu does not.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Posts: 23799 |
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I just want to point out that I like Maria Holic because I find it funny and I'm a helpless little bitch for slick animation. I also enjoyed Aoi Hana and Sasameki Koto very much and not because of the yuri content. In both cases, I liked the characters a lot; I found Aoi Hana to be an absorbing drama and Sasameki Koto to be an amusing comedy.
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CCZilla
Posts: 20 |
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I'm a teenage guy. I've thought about pervy things, not gonna lie. But I think how far Kanako goes in her mindset just makes her come off as a one-track minded individual. She thinks of nothing BUT sex. It's been a while since I watched the anime, so I could be mistaken, but I recall that she went to one of the most prestigious all-girl schools just so she can hook up with another girl. That's beyond a healthy interest, that's downright obsession. She doesn't know where to stop. I'm stunned she didn't start fantasizing about the dorm God (don't recall her name) at one point, she fantasized about everyone. It's a shameless stereotype that I've seen in far too many anime. One example I particularly despise is Kuroko from To Aru Kagaku no Railgun. Her pervy obsession over the lead is the only reason her character exists. To provide a cheap laugh to the audience. That's Kanako's character in a nutshell. Someone who obsessively fantasizes over other women, and the audience gets a cheap laugh at how disturbingly far her obsession goes. She gets as much punishment as any male would in the same situation in any other anime. Nothing against homosexuals, but the only reason people put up for Kanako is because homosexuality is such a touchy issue right now. Homosexuals getting the same treatment a heterosexual would in the exact same situation is considered "offensive". If Kanako was a guy, would anyone feel this amount of sympathy for the same character? Or would they laugh as he goes through the same amount of torture? If homosexuals truly want to be on the same page as heterosexuals, they need to learn to take the same jokes that heteros have had for years. I'm not saying Maria+Holic gets off scot-free, it definitely has an anti-homosexuality vibe to the whole thing. But I simply can't put up for Kanako. If she was a more intelligent, less obsessively perverted female, I might. But the way she acts doesn't earn her any defense from me. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Posts: 23799 |
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Well, again, based on only the first two episodes, I didn't see Kanako as being obsessed with sex or pervy. It came across as having a bunch of innocent crushes. She keeps on saying how "cute" the girls are, not "omg, I wanna motorboat her bubbies!"
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TheBigN
Posts: 62 Location: Somewhere in DC |
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I'm worried that people are projecting themselves (or at least their experiences) into Maria Holic more than necessary. But it's at least a good example of how a product can be interpreted in so many different ways by people.
I'm of the "Kanako is a typical loser fanboy protagonist who happens to be a lesbian" side myself, and enjoyed the outrageousness of both Kanako's over the top actions and Mariya's statements. I can see the arguments of the other side, but the product is meant to be a comedy, no matter how funny it actually is to whoever reads/watches it. And I don't think it's a "let's be mean to the lesbian" type of situation more than a "let's be mean to the pervert" type of situation. And as the anime basically adapts the manga almost exactly, I'm also a little surprised to see people say that the former is much much greater than the latter. But hey. |
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LaFreccia
Posts: 324 |
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I would not laugh if the character being tortured was heterosexual. I would not laugh if the character being tortured was male. I would not laugh at torture in a box, I would not laugh at it with a fox. I just don't find torture, humiliation, and bullying funny. |
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