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NEWS: Takeshi Nogami Responds to CNN's Rapelay Report


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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:41 pm Reply with quote
CNN has been spewing gob shyte for years now, it's the reason I stopped watching it for international news years ago. That womens' rights spokesperson who said "games like this should not be in our society". Well luv it's not, it's in Japanese society and culturally they are fine with that, so get over it. As for Mr. Nogami; he's an hentai creator and writer, he would say that because his bread and butter is on the line. Also I find it amusing that a Buddhist is quoting from the Christian Bible, when Buddha was an athiest. Laughing Christ said "I won't judge you either, but go forth and sin no more", not "go forth and carry on as you like". To the devoted, perversion is a sin against the soul, and it is the soul that gets its reward one way, or the other. Generally speaking if you don't believe in that sort of thing then fine, but don't expect the devoted to like you for it any less until you repent and "sin no more". Perhaps Mr. Nogami would like to read Genesis 18 and 19th. chapters, and CNN could read Luke 6:37 too. Wink
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musouka



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 707
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:40 pm Reply with quote
not wrote:
Obviously a well thought out defense of his culture and way of life.


It's articulate, but not exactly well thought out, and reeks of propaganda-ish statements towards his country. I don't agree with CNN's article, and think the whole thing is a bit of a tempest in a teapot, but really, the best response to a "news" report like this is ignoring it.

If we're not supposed to care about what happens in Japan, why should Japan care what we think about the more sordid games they have on the market? It's another country's news report, Nogami, who cares?
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not



Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:47 am Reply with quote
^^If not well thought out, then I suppose "passionate" would be a better description of his letter.

While I do think that the issue something trivial and should be ignored, I can not help but sympathize with Nogami's position. Most American's will not have the same understanding of Japanese culture as we do. As elitist as it might sound to some, it is true. The general public of the United States will take the word of CNN seriously and Nogami probably knows that.

He should be offended as a public media outlet is injecting false stereotypes and labels of his country into the minds of one of it's closest allies.

If something similar happened to the U.S., I can imagine some might as flustered as he.
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Dernhelm



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 76
Location: Southeast Asia
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:39 am Reply with quote
Past wrote:
Dernhelm wrote:
adultery is negative precisely because of what it is, a term coined by these religious groups that pertain to the sinful acts of extramarital sex.
Actually this is kind of the thing I was making a point about. Things coined as sinful by religious groups are sinful by the religion's standards, but the proponents of that religion seem to think the standards should be universal and apply to everyone. Christians think all people are sinners, particularly people who are not Christian. So is the standard really a Christian standard, only they should follow, or are they stressing these are rules for which everyone must follow (and only upon realizing the Christian faith can someone recognize and repent those sins)? The bible clearly states it's the latter.

again, i disagree. Christians including the Roman Catholic Church respect other religions. Christians believe it's okay to be part of any other religion, the Bible has stories acknowledging other religions and other religions doing better and charitable things in fact than those under the Lord (take "The Good Samaritan" for example). the Bible? the book revered by Christians is actually mostly about Jews, people of a religion considered different from that of Christianity.

Christians are not trying to make a standard universal to every religion out there simply because like i said Christians respect other religions. yet, a Christian standard should be universal to every member of the Christian community, to every person under its Church, to every single individual baptized as a Christian. when you say "Christians think all people are sinners" this is only true among Christians; Muslims, Buddhists, athiests and agnostics don't have to think the same way too. "particularly people who are not Christian" that is not true, that's like singling someone out, sort of racist in fact, especially since a lot of Christians are more sinful than others. Christians reject racism.

if that doesn't change the way you see Christians, i guess i have no choice but to respect your opinion, unfortunate as it may sound even though not every Christian see it that way including the Pope who honors other religions, just don't say that everyone believes that way. you shouldn't just generalize what you think is true to every single Christian out there, because it is a grave insult. maybe it's the extremist or radical religious groups who think that their religion reigns supreme over everything else is what you have in mind.

the only problem i have with your opinion is that you should have used terms that were more morally or judgmentally neutral. because terms like "marriage" and "adultery" are not ambiguous enough to be considered something separate from Christian judgment and will only cause confusion and opposition (like what i am doing now) especially if you want to talk about it in a purely scientific, factual, and unbiased way.
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TJR



Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 223
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:49 am Reply with quote
musouka wrote:
not wrote:
Obviously a well thought out defense of his culture and way of life.


It's articulate, but not exactly well thought out, and reeks of propaganda-ish statements towards his country. I don't agree with CNN's article, and think the whole thing is a bit of a tempest in a teapot, but really, the best response to a "news" report like this is ignoring it.


It's a horribly thought out letter, thanks to the abundance of logical fallacies (at least one in almost every paragraph). While there may be a lot of passion, the writer comes across as being very ignorant.

Remaining silent would definitely be better, although I doubt it matters either way.
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musouka



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 707
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:57 am Reply with quote
not wrote:

He should be offended as a public media outlet is injecting false stereotypes and labels of his country into the minds of one of it's closest allies.

If something similar happened to the U.S., I can imagine some might as flustered as he.


This happens to the US all the time. Other countries love running news reports about how we're all fat, uneducated, and prone to shooting sprees. Yes, such things are annoying generalizations that don't take into respect the entire dynamics of our culture, but that's the problem with sensationalist news stories from any country.

Plus, you know, those are issues we have. Perhaps not to the extent media likes to claim, but they're things our society is working on trying to combat. It would be stupid of me to write a letter extolling the virtues of "America, land of the free" in an attempt to ignore the rougher parts of our country.
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3498
Location: IN your nightmares
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:09 am Reply with quote
Dernhelm wrote:
the only problem i have with your opinion is that you should have used terms that were more morally or judgmentally neutral. because terms like "marriage" and "adultery" are not ambiguous enough to be considered something separate from Christian judgment and will only cause confusion and opposition (like what i am doing now) especially if you want to talk about it in a purely scientific, factual, and unbiased way.
Thank you for being respectful and offering your insight in a polite way. When one sees a lot of negatives from Christians, even with the many positives that I respect and admire (and I know the majority do represent the best of human traits rather than the worst ~ as is true of many of us atheists too), my discourse in pointing out those faults are with the express intent to target the truly ignorant in the hopes it doesn't disrupt the Law of Averages. To me not so much with the term "marriage", but "adultery" conjures up a concept relevant to religion just like you say it is not ambiguous enough. But adulterous actions themselves can occur over a wide range of backgrounds and peoples regardless of religion. Any human can commit an act that religiously moral person deems adulterous, while 99.9% of the general public would agree the act was at least disagreeable, so that is why I think judgments against them is not entirely exclusive to Christians. But this is getting off-track with the topic so I'll leave it at that.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:58 am Reply with quote
GWOtaku wrote:


Eh, I think that's a stretch. To an extent the crowding of the train system has to be a part of it, but in practice the groping issue is treated seriously. Here's some assorted links about it here,


Quote:
False accusations of groping were highlighted when Japan's Supreme Court overturned in April the conviction of a professor for groping a girl on a Tokyo train.

Judges pointed out a need to be careful in such cases when the accuser was the only source of evidence, media said.



GWOtaku wrote:

here,


Quote:
The behaviour of women in the safe zone has also drawn complaints. Momentarily freed from the rigid sexist expectations of Japanese society, a carriage of OLs can adjust their make-up and prattle away on their phones as much as they like, drawing complaints from other passengers.

Not to mention
Quote:
Jun 23, 2004

Excuse me, that was almost too long ago to think about. Times change, dude. Maybe it's better. Maybe it's worse. I doubt it's the same.

We run a drug group at my work for gals & one for guys & the guy who oversees the program won't go near the gal group because they have a totally different vibe if a guy's around.
And I know for a fact a bunch of guys together can devolve into pretty vulgar places.
Ok, gals can also. Issue being a bunch of guys or gals together just might say some negative things about the opposite sex

Although this site is also less a news & more a weird places page you have to admit. I'd hate to think what foreigners could post on such a page about the US. Hells bells, we do it ourselves about different parts of the country.
I've heard some of the jokes about Californias wearing sandals in 2 feet of snow. I don't think I've worn sandals in at least 5 yrs.

GWOtaku wrote:
here,


Quote:
July 10, 2008

This is a blog, not exactly scientific. Why did the Turkish woman not take a cab? Get a car? Walk? Get a bike? Move over getting grouped on a train?


GWOtaku wrote:
and here.


Quote:
Why nobody helps?
I have heard this question by foreigners many times, I've asked it myself.There have been long discussions on why " everybody watches but nobody tries to help". A Japanese professor as well as some Japanese PhD students explained, that since Japan is group-oriented society, everybody waits someone else to make the first step, or to be told to do so. They even used the term" shiji machi nihonjin"(Japanese, waiting for instructions, to be told what to do).


Here we go. Although it's 2 yrs old, I'll buy this.
So what the trains need to do is pay some chicks to ride the trains who'll slap the guy or loudly call the guy out. God knows I would. It's the same idea behind busting the johns vs busting the prostitutes-embarrass the guys who view it as a safe thing to do.

You cannot deny this exists not because of rapelay games but because the perpetrators perceive it as something they can get away with like stealing stolen goods from a criminal. It's not like they can call the cops. Of course you have to be careful not to go after the armed & dangerous ones, but I'm sure the same applies to gropers--one assumes certain gals are safer than others. Had this been met with firm opposition, it wouldn't have gone this far. Is this blaming the victims? Maybe. A gal's got to take care of herself as much as she can.
We were closer to this in the past. It was the woman's lib movement that moved women out of the barefoot & pregnant/a man's home is his castle/the man wears the pants in the home. We're equal, not superior or inferior.

GWOtaku wrote:
I hate to nitpick, but all this really says is that the fantasy exists/has existed. Clearly so, but that point doesn't address whether it's legitimate or not.


You lost me there. If the rape fantasy was a valid line of romance novels aimed at the female audience for several years, I'd say that makes it a legitimate fantasy. Like a parent dreaming about a life without the kids doesn't mean they don't WANT the kids, just they dream about the freedom they'd have not being a parent for a couple minutes out of the day.
Although I have met many parents who shouldn't be parents because they gave no more thought to becoming parents than a pair of animals.
Basically the rape fantasy line of novels went away because it sent mixed messages to males-that no means yes. This doesn't mean gals can't still fantasize about such scenarios, but they keep it locked away more. However, you might be surprised at the number of gals out there who are into "non-con"(non-consentual) stories. I see more than a few on various boards who like these types of stories.

GWOtaku wrote:

There's a good point in here insofar as there's a huge difference between being tempted by sin and actually committing it.


Isn't there?
I thought the whole point was we have to be tested to strengthen our resolve. Of course it's easy not to use drugs in a residential program where hopefully there are none available. Problem is the users have to move out into the real world where temptation exist. Thay have to learn to say no. I can't tell you how stupid of an excuse it is when I ask someone why they tested dirty & they say "I was at a party & they were passing it around". And you can't say no? Lack a spine?

GWOtaku wrote:
However, is there really a 0% danger of being desensitized to the act if you're acting it out in a video game, even a little bit? I actually agree that rational adults can tell fantasy from reality. At the same time though, aren't we all molded by what we put into our minds in the first place, at least to some degree?


I'm a headbanger.
I've never done drugs & I'm a teetotaler. Always blew my in-laws away (many of whom used both).
So the answer to your question is why would I allow my life choices to be altered by the music I love to listen to?

GWOtaku wrote:
And if there's a market for a game like Rapelay, what does that fact imply about that market and the way it thinks about women?


Quote:
Catharsis is the emotional cleansing of the audience and/or characters in the play. In relation to drama it is an extreme change in emotion resulting from strong feelings of sorrow, fear, pity, or laughter; this result has been described as a purification or a purging of such emotions (whether those of the characters in the play or of the audience).


GWOtaku wrote:
How might the game change or exacerbate that way of thinking, even assuming that most of its players will never even consider rape? In addition, if we could ignore external stimuli simply by the force of our will, there wouldn't be a successful advertising business to speak of. Am I wrong? Is there something I'm missing here? Those questions aren't just rhetorical, by the way.


Do all of us who listen to Metallica need to be watched to make sure we won't enact any of the violence in their music?
You mean everyone who likes the Saw movies is planning similar crimes?
I saw Clash of the Titans over the weekend with lots of other Americans. Are we all going to go to war against God now?

GWOtaku wrote:
That sounds great, but is that actually the case? Are most players of these games really rapists in waiting that would be committing crimes without the game? I daresay most defenders of the game would say that they wouldn't consider it. Can this really be proven one way or the other?


Actually the real criminals probably aren't playing games. And the people playing these games would probably never commit a rape, so where's the problem? Most likely these are those stereotypical nerdy otaku who couldn't talk to a real girl if the said "hi" so there most likely isn't any damage cause by these games.
Outside of further isolating said otaku so they'll probably never get a real girlfriend.


Last edited by CCSYueh on Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14773
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:54 am Reply with quote
Much of what GWOtaku cited URL links still hold true in Japan, talking with English-language expats in Japanese forums. Japan is very traditional: like baseball, slow to change.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:45 pm Reply with quote
And creating separate train cars doesn't really address the real problem like a slap to the face or a kick in the crotch would, does it? It's a segregation so as not to offend the sleezebag while offering protection to the victim, but it doesn't empower the victim so there's no reason for it to stop, is there?
The "no one's going to stop me" attitude allows this to continue, not the gropers buying the latest rapelay game. One of the articles commented some actually get satisfaction from the look of disgust from the girl they're groping, so how about she slap him? Others brag they can satisfy the girl just by touching her-again-slap. Even the arrest doesn't seem to always work, so the gals turning rambo on the guys might back them down a few notches.
If anything, it seems to me rapelay probably sprang from the gropers. I seem to recall there was supposed to be a rape option in one of the Grand Theft Autos. How many acts of violence against women have we seen in music videos? Our culture often portrays violence as sexy.
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luisedgarf



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 657
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:34 pm Reply with quote
keikanki wrote:


And so I can't help but wonder: To what degree is it acceptable to lobby for a foreign country to be held to a higher moral standard?



The U.S. defeated Japan in the WWII. Unlike the Asian Middle East societies, Japan (and also Korea) have a senpai/kohai mindset and they consider the U.S. their senpai (or sungbae-nim for the Koreans) because in the Japanese case, the U.S. nuked them and gave Japan their first military defeat in almost 500 years of story, and in the Korean case, because the Americans defeated the Japanese and drive them out from their country.

Not to mention, in the Japanese case, the U.S. pays MILLIONS of dollars just to prevent another rise of nationalistic ideas, since the U.S. knows that many Japanese will NEVER, EVER forgive the Americans for destroying their country, nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and turning their country in a giant military Air Base.
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FlamingPinecone



Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 131
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:06 pm Reply with quote
CNN: theres a gross heinous thing that we totally hate that is happening and we can bastardize it for page views and media attention thus bringing it to an entirely new audience to said gross heinous thing.

great job breaking it hero.

fawhoooosh!
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2867
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:59 pm Reply with quote
and this sis till relevant as an uk tabloid did it again and took takeshi out of context to uch their anti aniem propaganda (and i consider anybody who watches girls und panzer and think it promotes pedophilia to be a pretty disturbed person herself)
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:17 pm Reply with quote
Chicken arise! Arise chicken arise!

I'm pretty sure this is the wrong thread to do it in, but here's a source for his claim anyway.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:19 pm Reply with quote
Locking this up for necroposting.
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