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tempest wrote:

Especially if it is combined with the other half of the solution: making titles available online in a legitimate, legal format.

I think it's not going to happen. Most of the publishers aren't really interested in that, they simply don't want their material online, regardless of it being marketable outside Japan (and regardless of what they've said). Also, it would mean DRM, among other things.
As usual, they're claiming facts that cannot be proved - i.e. if people use these sites, they don't buy any of their manga. That is not to say I approve Onemanga and similar sites, but I simply point out the fallacy of their reasoning (dowload/read online = lost sale).

Good. About time.

I scanslated with a large shojo group back 2003-2004, and to be into scanslations it was *work* - there were no aggregator sites, and it was rare to find a direct or hosted download - it usually involved learning how to use and navigate IRC, which was rather arcane even then. (We also had to walk uphill, in the snow, to get to the manga store Wink

)

Now it's just a Google search. Often, it's the first thing that comes up, before the legit resources - wiki, ANN, the publisher's site, Amazon. I'm worried that the proliferation of the agreegator sites has made it so easy that popular titles that should have been licensed won't be.

Also, look next time you're at your local B&M bookstore. Manga Cows have decamped from laying on the floor to staying at home and reading, because they don't have to even leave the house. I've not had to step over any in a while now.

I hope the publishers - esp since the Japanese are on board - use this as an opportunity to make more manga available online, and to also pushback on the idea that scanslations are "better quality". A grainy scan from Weekly Jump translated by someone with two years of high school Japanese? Ha!

Well what Viz was doing with a few of their titles, like Rinne, is in the same vein as a scanner, and I think that'll work. I stopped really collecting when I realize the space factors of owning physical property. But really, heavy handing piracy has failed a dozen times already, this coalition needs to prepare its own version if it wants to compete. This is just industry being uncreative in its response.

tempest wrote:

Especially if it is combined with the other half of the solution: making titles available online in a legitimate, legal format.

I believe that Erica Friedman is working along something along those lines for niche manga that is not viable to put into print in the US ... especially regarding her growing appreciation of Yuri Hime:

Yuri Manga: Yuri Hime v20 pt. 1:

Quote:

... So, there really are a lot of options for you to buy Yuri Hime, and make the point that there is a legitimate overseas market. The more we buy, the more our voice is heard. In the near future I'll expand about how this can change things for all our benefit - and talk about the solution I mentioned above. Smile

Yuri Manga: Yuri Hime v20 pt. 2

Quote:

So, 5 years into this experiment, we have a solid handful of some really decent art, storytelling and by god, adult women in relationships. Now we just need to get it over here legitimately and we'll have arrived.

And via twitter:

Quote:

@Yuricon: Remember when we all talking about a new manga publishing paradigm? Well, I'm working on it. Right now, it's called "thassa."

I'm glad that something is being done against scanlation sites. I admit, there's only one series I'm really following via scanlation (Akuma to Love Song) due to it not being licensed yet, but even if I couldn't find a way to read it afterward, I'd buy the Japanese books (working on this now actually) and then wait for someone to hopefully pick up the license.

claudia92 wrote:

I think publishers should put the translated mangas and put them more quickly.

If a bunch of teenagers kid can make a high quality translation in a few days, why can't a big publisher can do this? I do think its possible, they just have to commite to that.

It's not that simple. The scanlators can do it, because they cut out all the middle-men. They don't have to negotiate for rights, sign a contract, abide by a moratorium period before they can release, etc. And these major Japanese companies tend to be very traditional and resistant to change -- so it's likely the contract doesn't allow providing it online, or it's too expensive for the American publishers to come up with a system that filters by country, prevents copying, etc.

Also, sites like OneManga aggregate EVERYTHING -- whereas a company like Tokyopop can't put manga they don't own the rights to on their site. So OneManga is desirable, because it's a "one stop shop" for everything, regardless of publisher, since they don't follow any legal rules.

As others are mentioning -- if they really want this to work, they need to come up with their own legal sites to read this stuff online. If they are able to form a group of all the companies like this to fight scanlations -- I hope they could use that same group to all get in on the same legal online manga scan site that would provide everything.

Maybe try to tap the scanlation world for people to work on titles for money, similar to how Crunchyroll taps fansubbers for their streaming releases.

Insert weak attempt to make a pun.

Express situation in worded paragraph. Acknowledge both sides of the issue occurring. Approach each sides weaknesses with valid rebuttals. Provide esoteric analogies to each fact provided that nobody will be able to understand.

Offer opinion that re-enforces both sides in specific points whilst covering the weaknesses regarding each side. Conclude with statement that comes off as pretentious and wordy. Make final attempt at being funny. Add obscenities where need be.

There. I'm done. Next.

Revolutionary wrote:

I doubt they will. They'll just turn around and not read the series in any way.

This is the big question - how many people using the sites are doing so simply because it's free entertainment, rather than anything to do with manga's specific appeal? If you take away the sites they are using, will they gravitate to the options that aren't free or simply to something else that's free and easy to use?

Of course you can't answer that without removing the sites, and at this point the pros to attempting to remove the sites probably outweigh the cons.

ninjapet wrote:

Though this is a big step in solving everything, publishers and English c.o's need to get on the bandwagon and offer weekly series they publish on a week to week release online so people don't have to go get fan scans. I mean I can dream right?

Agreed. It can hardly solve every problem the otaku fandom has worldwide, but at least it'll make a colossal dent.

I just hope that when the pirate sites go down, the rightful publishers can find a way to still bring them to fans.

How hard is it to find manga?

Nearly every major city in America is served by at least two comic book shops. Most small cities have one.

Nearly (if not ALL) comic book shops have their material shipped to them through Diamond Comic Distributors.

Guess what companies are on the DCD exclusive list? Viz and Dark Horse.

So, essentially, if you want a Dark Horse or Viz licensed manga, GO SUPPORT YOUR FREAKING LOCAL COMIC BOOK SHOP!

aereus wrote:

claudia92 wrote:

I think publishers should put the translated mangas and put them more quickly.

If a bunch of teenagers kid can make a high quality translation in a few days, why can't a big publisher can do this? I do think its possible, they just have to commite to that.

It's not that simple. The scanlators can do it, because they cut out all the middle-men. They don't have to negotiate for rights, sign a contract, abide by a moratorium period before they can release, etc. And these major Japanese companies tend to be very traditional and resistant to change -- so it's likely the contract doesn't allow providing it online, or it's too expensive for the American publishers to come up with a system that filters by country, prevents copying, etc.

Also, sites like OneManga aggregate EVERYTHING -- whereas a company like Tokyopop can't put manga they don't own the rights to on their site. So OneManga is desirable, because it's a "one stop shop" for everything, regardless of publisher, since they don't follow any legal rules.

As others are mentioning -- if they really want this to work, they need to come up with their own legal sites to read this stuff online. If they are able to form a group of all the companies like this to fight scanlations -- I hope they could use that same group to all get in on the same legal online manga scan site that would provide everything.

Maybe try to tap the scanlation world for people to work on titles for money, similar to how Crunchyroll taps fansubbers for their streaming releases.

I know that it isnt that easy, but I mean, its possible. And yeah, i was thinking something as Crunchyroll, but with mangas.

But, overall, i really dont like the idea. I live in Peru, and manga-wise its like we were still in the 70s. There isnt any existent publisher of mangas, and imported mangas from united states or spain are rare and expensive. So the only way to access to them is via webs like onemanga.

Well, legit translators have to get everything approved by the Japanese and that can take months and so that's why it takes so long.

agila61 wrote:

But the legal distinction is that with illegal hosting, the illegal behavior is on the server side, unless the reader downloads and stores the images. For torrent downloads, all participants except pure leech torrent downloaders are engaged in illegal activity. Its easier to get one site engaged in 50 million illegal acts than 10 million people each engaged in 5 illegal acts.

Anti-piracy efforts have never fretted over legal fine print. They cast as wide a net as possible and see what they get.
I'm betting that most of the sites in their crosshairs are sites that let people view manga online since it seems that is how most people view scanlations. Personally, I can't stand reading manga off a website so I stick with downloads. I don't see any of my meager manga consumption being affected.

Interesting. I wasn't aware that scan sites were having enough of an effect on sales to force together this many companies to "combat" them.

However, putting aside for a moment those who simply download or aggregate scanlated manga because of the sole fact that they're cheap and can't/won't pay for it, there's also the matter of scans which exist solely because of the fact that what's available in the scanlators' home country is diluted or censored in such a way that it is rendered inaccessible to those who wish to read it. I'm not necessarily talking about small things like changing a name here or there, or a bit of breezy dialogue being used to spice up an otherwise stiff or unwieldy literal translation, but rather things that are added in solely for the sake of adding something in (see also: most of Tokyopop's manga catalog, especially Ikkitousen/Battle Vixens, what with Kan'u's random romantic interest in Koukin which is completely out of place, or the whole "pee stain" running gag with Myousai, among other annoyances), or which are blatantly censored merely to avoid trouble from the Moral Guardians (see also: any use of a swastika/manji symbol or crucifix).

While I can see the reason for some of these changes, I also understand that their inclusion also gives the "hardcore" fan more of a reason to not buy the product and go for the illegal scan. Perhaps one way to increase readership (and therefore sales), would be for publishers to offer a second, "uncut"-style release or something similar.

mglittlerobin wrote:

Well, legit translators have to get everything approved by the Japanese and that can take months and so that's why it takes so long.

Yes! They also check their translations before they release them. It's not just one dude translating as fast as possible so that the group can be the first to upload.

Viz's handling of Rin-ne proves simultaneous release is possible. It's unrealistic to expect that we will get legal simultaneous releases of everything, but it's still a good step forward.

And honestly, I still remember a time when internet was too slow to get anime and manga online, and I did manage to survive with just one Sailor Moon volume a month back then. Now that Inuyasha is over, there's nothing I need to read so badly that I prefer to check online every week instead of buying the new volume.

If people can't deal with the wait, maybe they need more hobbies, or a job.

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