Forum - View topicANNCast - North by Northrop
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10421 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Point 1: Justin & Zac do not speak for ANN. They have their own opinions and they express them in their editorial podcast. You know "the opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect... etc... " ? Zac and Justin expressing opinions that may be contrary to the actions of their employer does not make them hypocrites. For the record, ANN has no opinion on fansubs/scanlations. ANN has never said that fansubs/scanlations are "wrong." Point 2: Yes, it is different when we do it. When consumers turn to piracy, it diminishes potential revenue for the publishers. When the press does it, well, we get the stuff for free (and without advertising) either way, there's no potential revenue to be lost. Another way of looking at it is: "Regardless of how the press gets the material, it makes no practical difference, while the same can not be said of consumers." I'm done. |
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xstylus
 Posts: 263 |
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That disclaimer holds more water when the people expressing such opinions aren't high level executive editors or the founder. Don't get me wrong though, while I'd love to see their positions be the official ones of ANN, I understand why they aren't (officially). You don't want to polarize and alienate a large chunk of your demographic. However, this is a position that's kind of hard to toe the middle on. Either you're okay with it or not okay with it. The zone in between is called hypocrisy.
That's a rather Nixonesque argument. It's also one that's akin to the oft-pleaded excuse of "I was never going to buy it anyway, so it doesn't hurt if I download it." Still doesn't make it right. But then again, it does convey ANN's position. |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10421 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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This would be true of most companies, but with newspapers and magazines, the policy is often that the editorial executives and the corporation have different positions on matters, and the editorial team is always allowed to express their individual opinions freely. Even if every editor at ANN shares the same opinion on something (we don't on this), it still would not be an official ANN opinion or position. Similar opinions among the senior staff are quite common, as we all see things from a similar perspective and have similar informational resources on which to base our opinions. Uniformly identical opinions are however extremely rare. Zac, Justin, Egan, Dan and I have very different opinions on a large number of things, but my vision for ANN has always been one of editorial freedom. I try very hard not to censor their opinions in any way, regardless of whether or not I agree. Every staff and freelance writer at ANN can say whatever they want about fansubs and scanlations. And regardless of what they say or think, ANN will continue with the preview guides.
Actually, this has nothing to do with it. If this was the case, I'd censor the staff and say "don't express a strong opinion either way." ANN has no opinion on this, or any other matter, because that's also part of my vision for ANN. ANN is to be an unbiased medium for presenting facts and opinions. (Unbiased does not mean the editors and writers have to give equal weight to every opinion, it means that we will not censor opinions, and we will not hire based on opinions). Quoted from ANN's editorial mission statement, "Anime News Network’s mission is to bring the anime industry and its consumers together with the latest and best information, news and views. <snip> source for news and information about Japanese animation and comic books, the industries surrounding these mediums and their fans. We seek to bring industry and consumer together in one open, impartial environment of understanding."
Sorry, much like you probably don't know too much about Pierre Elliot Trudeau, I don't know much more about Nixon other than the fact that he resigned in order to avoid being impeached over the watergate scandal. That and he uses robot bodies to get around as president of the world in the 3000s. As for the second comparison... No, it's more akin to "They give us this for free whenever we ask, but this is just easier, so it doesn't hurt if we download it." I understand that there's an apparent similarity, but there's no practical similarity, especially when you look at the macro-model as opposed to individual cases. At the macro level, consumers, as a group, are turning to piracy for things they would otherwise support financially (via payments, or ad-eyeball time) if the piracy wasn't available. As a group, the press never contributed financially in the first place. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if fansubs were to disappear overnight, ANN would still do the preview guide. And we'd love it, because we'd then be virtually the only ones doing it. Pretty much no other anime web site would have the resources. I'd be happier with the result too, because we wouldn't have to rush to be competitive with everyone else. In otherwords, the fansubs we use for the preview guide are actually a disadvantage to us. But fansubs are not going to disappear . They will continue to be available and provide a competitive advantage to whomever uses them. So ANN has two choices, 1) use them to remain on equal ground, 2) give in to the moral objections of a portion of our staff and readers and fall behind. -t |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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As an economist, the fundamental question is distribution. Its the distribution of bootlegs that undermines the market for licensed work that generates incomes back to the creators of the work. As popular as {Edit:}focusing on the actions of the viewer are, the viewing of bootlegs is only feasible because of the distribution of bootlegs. A majority of people in Western societies will just watch stuff for free and if pressed on it come up with flimsy rationalizations ... but if they need to pay for high quality content, or if they have to sit through ads to get a World Cup match "live" instead of fast forwarding past ads on the DVR, they'll pay for the content or sit through the ads. None of this is new: rip-off copies outselling works that paid the author was commonplace before the copyright laws were first established. Dickens was elated by his reception when he first arrived in the US, until he found out that he only really got paid for a few dozen of his works sent to the US on publication, which were the source of a thousands of copies sold without Dickens seeing a dime ... because back then, the US did not respect copyright of works unless they were published in the US. What's new is the much lower cost of reproduction and distribution via the internet, which is shaking up the old print publishing business models. When a fansub (or scanlation) is viewed and a review is written, that does not undermine the market in the way that original distribution of the fansub or scanlation does: for example Giant Killing, which was one of the Crunchyroll simulcasts that took over a month as the production committee worked out where they could sell the rights to higher value DVD distribution, received some excellent reviews. Those reviews helped build the market for the simulcast when it finally did arrive at CR. Last edited by agila61 on Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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This wasn't about the sites themselves, but the statement against those who "defended" them. I merely pointed out how it must be nice to condemn these people all the while they participate in the very same action. Maybe I mistook the comment because I heard it as "Screw all of you for defending these sites, but nevermind the fact we use them for our purposes (thus, contributing to the issue)."
I should have read the remaining posts before quoting the original. This pretty much sums up I didn't mistake what I heard.
Opinions are one thing. Making audacious comments about the audience is quite another. The only reason I threw ANN into the debate was simply this: What if it where the Annual Spring Manga Guide 2010? Chastising people for defending these sites was just a low blow, so I responded.
Good to know because I simply can't wait to see how Zac responds to KissxSis: The Second Erection.
Which leads me to ask why you believe ANN only has two options.
I can't speak for anyone else but myself, but do understand this is the only anime site I've contributed financially to. I don't do this because I love Zac. I do this because, given the established position ANN has, I can see for myself, despite the "illicit" activities, they're still based on supporting the industry. That's why I don't give a damn about the fan sub usage. In time, when the products are released, ANN will still be there to support it. Unlike those other websites who merely use fan sub offerings to try and grab viewers. How many of those websites put in what ANN does after the product is released? I can't count one. My opinion here, but ANN has no competition and can call themselves a true anime site. Oh, and by the way... how's those stickers coming along? My back window's looking a little bare without Nina telling the world to shove their cellphones up their ass while driving. My apologies for over-reacting. One of these days, I'll stop caring about this issue. I believe people call this time "death". |
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arromdee
Posts: 71 |
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But it still amounts to, ultimately, violating copyright and then making money off of doing so. It's true that it doesn't involve further distribution, but if what bothers you is the combination of copyright violation and money, that is indeed there. The reason this is comparable to an operator of a manga site and not a fan using a manga site is that the fan doesn't make money and the operator does. Anyway, I think there's another big factor that's barely been touched on here as to why fans hate the crackdown. Fandom depends on illegal activities--a lot of which are a lot less morally questionable than a for-pay manga site. We know about fansubs and scanlations, but fanfiction is a copyright violation. Importing legitimate merchandise that competes with domestic merchandise is a copyright violation (yes, really). Showing a video without permission is a copyright violation, and few clubs or con rooms get permission for everything they show. Fan art is a copyright violation, and so are dojinshis. AMVs are a copyright violation. A typical con masquerade sketch is a copyright violation for the same reason that fanfiction is, and just wearing a homemade costume in public probably is. It's easy for the juggernaut to continue once it's started. Do you think that if the companies do manage to shut down the pay manga sites they'll just stop patrolling the Internet until they hear about a manga site popping up again? Or will they then turn their eyes to some other fan activity? (And this doesn't even consider that in the music and film industry it's been customary for big companies going against file traders to use abusive tactics that can catch innocent people and which fail to give even the guilty due process.) |
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arromdee
Posts: 71 |
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The way the Japanese emphasize the atomic bombings is as if the typical American take on the Civil War depicted the burning of Atlanta but not slavery, or if the typical German thoughts about World War II were about the bombing of Dresden but not the Holocaust. Innocent people really did suffer in them, but focusing on them gives you a very skewed perspective on the war and basically lies by omission. There's a reason why neo-Nazi groups in Germany like to commemorate the bombing of Dresden.
It's funny how we don't see a lot of anime about Unit 731 (which killed more people than the atomic bombings did) or the Nanking Massacre. Or comfort women. |
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rinmackie
 Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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Maybe because Japan doesn't like airing it's dirty laundry? Also, it's true that Japanese schools don't teach students about the bad things their country did during WW2. I heard of at least one politician who tried to change that and was assassinated. So even if someone tried to make an anime about such things they could be risking their lives. Of course I'm sure some American soldiers did some things they wouldn't want people to know about but you don't hear about it because we won. I know because my grandfather was in the war and he said such things happened all the time. War can turn even decent, normal people into animals. Also, history is written by the winners. If you studied history in more detail, you'd realize what you're taught in school isn't the whole picture. The reality is a lot more complex. But I'm not trying to excuse what Japan did; I think it was wrong and they should be more honest about it. But I hate this suffering comparison; any time innocent civilians suffer, it's sad. Regardless of what side they're on. |
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arromdee
Posts: 71 |
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But we hear plenty about bad things America itself did. Ironically, prominent examples of this are the Japanese-American internment and the atomic bombings themselves.
Oh, that is so not the case here. Japan lost, yet gets to write history with a skewed perspective showing suffering caused to Japanese, but not by Japanese. |
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rinmackie
Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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Yes, we're told about the bombing and the internment camps but we don't dwell on it much. And often they're dismissed with some sort of justification. Not the camps so much, but the bombing especially. Plus, I believe the US is partly to blame for the coverup. During the Occupation, we allowed certain things to be swept under the carpet so we could help Japan recover. I don't remember the exact details but someone mentioned it another thread. |
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arromdee
Posts: 71 |
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I don't believe for a moment that Barefoot Gen was made because the Americans said "we think it would be a bad idea to talk about Japanese war criminals, so let's emphasize how much the atom bombs made Japan suffer instead". |
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