Forum - View topicNEWS: Black Butler Author Decries Illegal Videos, Downloads
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Typically your posts are somewhat reasonable PJ, but this one is most definitely not. All you have to do is think 5 seconds on why illegal aggregator websites can do these things and your whole argument falls to shambles. Did you never have the thought, "Oh yeah! These websites don't pay a dime to the Japanese rights holders for use of their material and that's why they can profit from a free w/ advertisement approach?" I really hope it did. And that factor is why these sites cannot be used as a model for anything. They get millions of views because they offer it at a much better price (free) and can do so because they don't pay the Japanese creators/publishers anything. They could not survive if they had to pay royalties/licensing costs for each manga that is hosted on their site. So... your post is effectively worthless, as is your silly claim that the author is in the wrong to try to protect her own work. |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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(emphasis added) Precisely. Some of the anger seems to be because her plea undermines the theory of the creators cheering the pirates on, but they are afraid to speak out because of the evil repression of the evil publishers and production committees. (A theory that was always as evidence free as the theory that publishers deliberately tolerated piracy in hopes of promoting their product) It seems highly unlikely that she expects to "banish piracy" by making a plea to her fans. Far more likely she hopes to reach some of her freeloading fans and make them understand the difference between being a freeloading fan and being a supporting fan. If in the process, she offends freeloading fans ... beggers can't be choosers. The upside of being a freeloader is you don't pay, the down side is that people look at you with contempt for being a freeloader. Obviously part of the decision to be a freeloader is the decision that you don't mind being contemptible. One thing that is useful in her remarks is that since she is directing them to Japanese fans, the whole, "but I can't get legal copies in my country" does not come up: none of her Japanese fans are in that situation. |
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TokyoGetter
 Posts: 416 Location: CA. You can tell by the low moral standards. |
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Do they still allow slavery where you live or something? Were you getting coiffed by a serf while you wrote this? |
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Almaz
Posts: 134 |
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Sorry, I am late for the party. I read the story and know this would be a #$%% storm. Only adding a few cents here. Heck, I will put in a dollar's worth.
First, the phrase "starving artist" came around for a REASON. It has always been around from the beginning of time as a profession that is hard to make money in. Why are we surprised now? People do not have a fit about the cost of your Iphone being cheap while the people who made said phone MAKE LESS THAN THAN ARTISTS DO. It is life folks. The artist choose this life. Sadly, the artist has to live with it. I know in history many authors dealt with money problems. Put out a book and no one likes it enough to buy it. Little to no sales. Hard to blame piracy on it back then. When a title is good enough, it will sale. Look at things like Avatar and Transformers (if the movies were really good is up to the beholder  The movies were pirated like gangbusters and sales were super.
Second, I like the analogy that Petrified Jello (sorry if I misspelled you name) of the bookstore. I see tons (LITERALLY) of people enjoying their lattes with reading books in the bookstore with no purchases. No one BBQing them. I do believe people should buy something, however. I am sure some people do buy the books due to reading them. It is the same thing. Third, Zak. What is up with the kicking of puppies lately? You seemed to be having fun stirring up the #%$ (hehehe). Why the devil advocate now? These sites been around for over a year, and no one bats an eye. Now....OH MY GAWD. On your podcast, you last question, while fair, is awkward at this junction. The Japanese companies did support Crunchyroll, instead of shutting it down. Isn't bashing it now counterproductive and insulting to the copyright holders who choose this. It was not our decision. I would come up with something new. Whatever. Fourth, I nuke all ads indiscriminately. If I was on a site that relied on that, they were not showing them to me. I know even this issue has been called thievery also. Cry me a river. Come up with ads that are not obnoxious, non-spyware infested, and good. I will watch them. Last edited by Almaz on Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TokyoGetter
Posts: 416 Location: CA. You can tell by the low moral standards. |
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I'm not trying to be rude, but this is just a tautology backed up with vague generalities, and I just don't see how it translates. Do you know that most lawyers make about 50k per year? Yet everybody assumes those guys are just rolling in it... we had two lawyers approach us when our magazine had a launch party and hustle us for work. Two. At a party with 30 people. Damned entitled lawyers... THEY CHOSE THIS LIFE! |
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cetriya
 Posts: 156 Location: NJ |
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if I was a pro mangaka I know to expect piracy, what I wouldnt expect (and would feel it as a slap to the face) is getting notes from people saying that they only enjoyed it illegally.
Anyway, Kuroshituji is another one of few series that actually benefit from all the online presence. The fact that it got a 2nd anime season alone is proof. |
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Almaz
Posts: 134 |
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About the same with everything in life, some people make more money than others. Very few make a lot of money. Next. |
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TokyoGetter
Posts: 416 Location: CA. You can tell by the low moral standards. |
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So you're disavowing your own point? |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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This justifies consuming their work without paying them ... exactly how? "Most manga-ka work incredibly long hours for relatively low rates of pay, compared to their cost of living, and therefore I should feel happy about trampling on their rights. Because trampling on the rights of people who are not rich makes it all right"?
She is explaining to her fans, some of whom do not understand this, that if they do not pay, she cannot work as a manga-ka and afford to eat. So if they are really fans, and really love the work, and really want to see more, they need to find a way to start paying for what they are consuming.
Bullshit nobody BBQ's manga cows. Do you think "manga cow" is a complimentary term? The ones who buy latte's may keep the bookstore in business (the margins on latte's are terrific things), but as far as the work, they are all scumbag parasitic leaches. If they want to use a place as a library, they should go to the fracking library, where the books on the shelves have already been fracking paid for, and if they read manga, it boosts the circulation figures for manga and increases the numbers of manga that the library buys. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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That's what she's saying or did you miss the point?
Thanks. I thought I did pretty good.
You're at a site which offers everything for free. Where's the audience? Sorry, Mediggo, but free isn't the reason piracy sites flourish. FUNimation, Crunchyroll, and TheAnimeNetwork are all free, but the audience attendance doesn't even come close. Thus, we can definitely rule out free being the reason.
What? Oh, I get it. You're being a smartass because my position escapes your understanding. Here, let me dumb it down for you: Mom: "Junior, please take all these eggs I put into one basket and deliver them to the market. Whatever you do, don't drop the basket." Junior: "Okay, mom, I'll be..." [basket drops and all the eggs broke] Figure it out from here. |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Did you know that 50k a month is a very livable wage? And that lawyers don't work nearly as much as manga-ka do. Not sure if you saw [url="http://www.comicsalliance.com/2009/09/11/mangaka-so-crayzay-a-japanese-comic-artists-demanding-schedule/"]this[/url] or not. But as you can see, manga-ka don't exactly have much free time, unless they're already a "big" name and just want to play the latest Dragon Quest/Idolmaster game *looks over at his copies of Berserk* But yeah, like most people said, standard for average animators/manga-ka is around 20k, and that's by working 14+ hours a day, 7 days a week. A little bit different from your lawyer scenario, wouldn't you say? |
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britannicamoore
 Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
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I have no issue with her speaking her opinions- though for me I wouldn't be picking up Black Butler if it weren't for watching the first few episodes.
My only real question: why would fans email her telling her they watched fansubs? Sounds like a troll to me and she only reacted to it. Either that or she just felt like saying her two cents and made up the reason. |
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Almaz
Posts: 134 |
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My point is everyone has to deal with living. Crying about it in a developed country when you can be living with most of the world that is actually starving is sad. Both the US and Japan do have people who have to deal with poverty but not like third world countries. Insulting and pointing fingers are not solving the problems, only shifting blame.
Last edited by Almaz on Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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So that means that if I have a lawyer work for me, if the lawyer makes around $50K a year, instead of the $150,000 or $1.5m that some people imagines, I am allowed to stiff them on the bill, because ... ... there's the part I'm missing. Where in this line of argument is the justification for ripping the other person off because they do not make as much money as some people imagine? I don't see the part of the argument where it actually makes a coherent argument in favor of being a parasitic bloodsucking leech. That is, after all, what the Black Butler author is talking about: not complaining about the rate of pay that she gets, but about the fact that people ripping her work off denies her even that pay. |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Of course not. I also mentioned that they have a huge assortment of titles, which you mentioned yourself. Now, ask yourself, why can they have a huge assortment of titles? The answer, PJ, just may shock someone who cannot see such a simple fact as you are right now. Also, might I point out Crunchyroll and FUNimation's press reports which do claim that they have millions of monthly views? Maybe you weren't browsing that day, but free = views. animenewsnetwork.com/industry-comments/funimation-crunchyroll-metrics |
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