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RyanSaotome
Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
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 Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:23 pm
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| Chagen46 wrote: | | >Musoka makes a very informative and fact-based post
>Everyone tries to downplay/find non-existent flaws/go "well fudge you bitch"
Sure is misogyny in here. |
What are people supposed to do when she's arguing that the only shows women would be interested in is shoujo and josei stuff? Women are just as interested in the popular shonen stuff as guys are for the most case.
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LavenderMintRose
Joined: 30 Nov 2012
Posts: 168
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:27 pm
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edit: yeah, kind of misunderstood the argument, sorry.
Last edited by LavenderMintRose on Wed May 01, 2013 5:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
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musouka
Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 707
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:28 pm
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| RyanSaotome wrote: | |
What are people supposed to do when she's arguing that the only shows women would be interested in is shoujo and josei stuff? Women are just as interested in the popular shonen stuff as guys are for the most case. |
No one is saying women aren't interested in popular shounen stuff. *I'm* interested in popular shounen stuff. What my post proves is that there is a market for stuff aimed at a female demographic, not just just stuff for a male demographic that women also happen to like.
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RyanSaotome
Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:29 pm
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| LavenderMintRose wrote: | | Oh, Black Butler is shonen and supported by guys buying it? Okay, I'll just go back and tell everyone who I've recommended it to who rejected it and say "ew, that's a fujoshi show."
And I guess all of the Mey-Rin body pillows sold out and that's why I only ever see Sebastian ones. Same with the Lizzie nendoroid figures*, right? And the forum threads about the fight scenes and the humor just sort of vanished, and that's why half of what I see is "Isn't Sebastian so hot?". Must be.
Yes, the story is more than bishonen fanservice (a lot more). Doesn't mean women aren't the ones supporting it. |
Of course its women buying it. Thats my point.. if you're going to count that stuff, you can't cherry pick what shonen adaptions you can count and which you can't. You need to count all of them (which causes the argument that there are no shows for women to buy to fall apart) or you count none.
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PrettyKitty$$$$$
Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 119
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:30 pm
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| RyanSaotome wrote: | |
What are people supposed to do when she's arguing that the only shows women would be interested in is shoujo and josei stuff? |
No one is arguing this. People have been saying that women buy anime. Period. We buy all sorts of anime, not just stuff that directly targets us. The questions is that if women buy anime, as the evidence shows, why there are so few productions directly aimed at them.
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musouka
Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 707
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:31 pm
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| PrettyKitty20034 wrote: | | No one is arguing this. People have been saying that women buy anime. Period. We buy all sorts of anime, not just stuff that directly targets us. The questions is that if women buy anime, as the evidence shows, why there are so few productions directly aimed at them. |
Exactly. And then the chestnut "because they don't sell!" is always trotted out. My post shows that they do sell. Quite well as a matter of fact.
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RyanSaotome
Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:32 pm
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| PrettyKitty20034 wrote: |
| RyanSaotome wrote: | |
What are people supposed to do when she's arguing that the only shows women would be interested in is shoujo and josei stuff? |
No one is arguing this. People have been saying that women buy anime. Period. We buy all sorts of anime, not just stuff that directly targets us. The questions is that if women buy anime, as the evidence shows, why there are so few productions directly aimed at them. |
And the simple answer to that is because there aren't enough women to fully support more than 1 type of show like that a season. Look at the seasonly sales rankings, you'll never see more than one josei/shoujo show that actually sells. Men have far more buying power and can support multiple shows aimed at them a season.
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Myaow
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 1068
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:32 pm
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Even if the inclusion of Black Butler is a boo-boo and technically not right by musouka's criteria, the loads of other good info on musouka's list still stands. That a high-budget show like Honey and Clover performs well (while a cheap one like Famiglia does not) really demonstrates how a ladies' anime by a good-quality studio like KyoAni could be a good idea and prove rewarding to the publishers. Removing Black Butler from the list and adding Prince of Tennis or Gintama really wouldn't change that bottom line, so why fight about it?
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PrettyKitty$$$$$
Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 119
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:34 pm
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| RyanSaotome wrote: | |
And the simple answer to that is because there aren't enough women to fully support more than 1 type of show like that a season. Look at the seasonly sales rankings, you'll never see more than one josei/shoujo show that actually sells. Men have far more buying power and can support multiple shows aimed at them a season. |
musuoka's post just showed that that isn't true. Did you even read it or are you just being stubborn?
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walw6pK4Alo
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:34 pm
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| PrettyKitty20034 wrote: |
| RyanSaotome wrote: | |
What are people supposed to do when she's arguing that the only shows women would be interested in is shoujo and josei stuff? |
No one is arguing this. People have been saying that women buy anime. Period. We buy all sorts of anime, not just stuff that directly targets us. The questions is that if women buy anime, as the evidence shows, why there are so few productions directly aimed at them. |
Either the market isn't as big as the male market, studios/production committees are predominantly in favor of male material, or both. There's no doubt women buy anime, but is it equivalent in size? I don't know, let's get some more data.
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RyanSaotome
Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:35 pm
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| PrettyKitty20034 wrote: |
| RyanSaotome wrote: | |
And the simple answer to that is because there aren't enough women to fully support more than 1 type of show like that a season. Look at the seasonly sales rankings, you'll never see more than one josei/shoujo show that actually sells. Men have far more buying power and can support multiple shows aimed at them a season. |
musuoka's post just showed that that isn't true. Did you even read it or are you just being stubborn? |
Her post showed nothing except that women only shows have a roof of about 10-15k sales for full TV series. Which is actually pretty damning evidence against women only shows.
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musouka
Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 707
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:38 pm
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| RyanSaotome wrote: | | Her post showed nothing except that women only shows have a roof of about 10-15k sales for full TV series. Which is actually pretty damning evidence against women only shows. |
By that criteria, a lot of your precious shows wouldn't have ever been made either. Oops.
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HitokiriShadow
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:40 pm
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| RyanSaotome wrote: | |
Her post showed nothing except that women only shows have a roof of about 10-15k sales for full TV series. Which is actually pretty damning evidence against women only shows. |
Few otaku shows hit that or over it. Most otaku shows don't hit anywhere near 15k, many are flops. Why would a a roof that few otaku shows hit even matter? Here's how many shows have had that many sales or higher in the past 13 years. And that's with a far, far more being made for male otaku.
Also, one or two of those musouka listed were definitely over 15 k.
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RyanSaotome
Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:40 pm
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| musouka wrote: |
| RyanSaotome wrote: | | Her post showed nothing except that women only shows have a roof of about 10-15k sales for full TV series. Which is actually pretty damning evidence against women only shows. |
By that criteria, a lot of your precious shows wouldn't have ever been made either. Oops. |
All I'm saying is that the market for women only shows is far smaller than male only shows. You can have a Girls und Panzer type of show that sells 30k without even much budget or hype, yet thats almost twice as much as any women only full tv show has ever sold.
Men are just a more sustainable and bigger potential market for companies.
That link just helps my case by showing how theres absolutely no josei or shoujo shows that actually sell great. 10-15k is good, obviously, but its not great.
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PrettyKitty$$$$$
Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 119
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:45 pm
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| RyanSaotome wrote: | |
Her post showed nothing except that women only shows have a roof of about 10-15k sales for full TV series. Which is actually pretty damning evidence against women only shows. |
Hmm. I find it interesting that you described that list of shows as "women only". That sort of "othering" of women targeted media leaves a sour taste in my mouth. My husband enjoyed Eden of the East, Kimi ni Todoke and Kids on the Slope quite a bit. I guess I should break it to him that those are "women only". Anyway, the list simply illustrates that like men, women will buy good shows, not just any crap that is aimed at them.
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