Forum - View topicThe Mike Toole Show - Evangel-a-like
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R.G.
Posts: 684 |
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I'm surprised no mention is made of Code Geass. Just hear me out:
C.C. does seem like Rei in behavior, which would make Kallen Asuka. As if that weren't enough, Emperor Charles Zi Brittannia's Ragnarok plan just screams "Human Instrumentality Project" to me. Last edited by R.G. on Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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zawa113
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Wow, couldn't have said it any better myself  I actually saw Gurren Lagann before Evangelion (I saw Eva shortly after, believe it or not, I was that late to the party) and I see your point as "Gainax's apology for Eva", Eva just did absolutely nothing for me. Heck, I think one of my favorite moments in Gurren Lagann was when Simon came out of his Shinji style depression, it just made me wanna cheer so bad! It's like the show had 5 great climaxes, the end of every arc, and when Simon comes out of his depression, heck, it might be one of my favorite moments in all of anime. But after so many anime (not just Gainax) that were "humans are evil", I also found the "humans rock!" aspect of Gurren Lagann to be refreshing too. But as others said, Gaogaigar (which I still need to watch) was a much earlier response to Eva and in some ways I think that Gurren Lagann got just as much inspiration from Giant Robo (not GR Giant Robo but the awesome 90s OVA that was all about screwing physics when it came to action) as it did from being the anti-Eva.
Ok, so my stance on Eva: for me, it's like Tetris. Believe it or not, I do not like the original Tetris. However, I like or at least enjoy to some degree damn near every Tetris clone out there: Puzzle Leagues, Dr. Mario, Columns, etc, etc. But the original Tetris? Not a fan, as odd as it sounds. And Eva is the same way for me, I dislike Eva to the nth degree but find most clones somewhere between mildly enjoyable and "totally did what Eva wanted to do but right". I feel like I'd seen enough things that had borrowed from NGE that by the time I saw it, NGE was just lame to me, nothing special, and actually kinda terrible (except for the beer drinking penguin, even I cannot deny that to be awesome), I just don't think it aged very well by today's standards (can't deny the nostalgic hold though), which is why I see more anti-Eva people on the internets now. I think its influences hold up today, but not the show itself to be honest (I'm sure many will disagree, but there's a reason that people seeing it for the first time today might not give a damn about it). In particular, I loved RahXephon and am actually watching it again. Obviously I'd heard of the Eva comparisons so it took a while for people to convince me ($20 at TRSI helped too) and I was basically expecting to dislike it overall and have it be one of the worst things I'd ever seen. But I actually really liked it, I'm rewatching it again after only a few months and enjoying it even more this time! I feel like I point to RahXephon now and go "Eva should have been this, more subtle on symbolism and more coherent and interesting on story with less episodic fighting". Strange how that can work out, eh? The original is not always the best if you ask me! Actually, I found it to be nothing like Evangelion except for teen+mecha (can't get away from that one, and perhaps a military-like organization), I found the characters likable, the situation totally different, the story more engaging while not being a clone of Eva, and the love triangle was interesting (I'd hardly call it a harem but a love-triangle, sure). Other than surface elements, I don't think it's a thing like Eva, and maybe that's why I liked it so much in the end. I saw RahXephon after Eva btw. I went into this expecting it to be maybe not as bad as Eva but still pretty bad, who knew that I'd actually end up truly enjoying it? Oh, not sure if this is wishful thinking, but how about any video games that Eva inspired? Killer7 is sure a confusing game dripping with symbolism. I actually played this game a few months before I saw Eva and went "OMG, That was AWESOME!" at the end of it, I loved how it handled making the entire plot pretty much be symbolism (by having me not entirely notice until the very very end spoiler[when you kill the last Smile, which is Iwazuru who is Kun Lan iirc]), and it was sure a depressing and weird game. Of course, Suda51 is incredibly weird, so you never know if there were any Eva inspirations here or jst Suda51 being Suda51. Still, any games anyone can think of? |
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GeekOfOz
 Posts: 2 Location: Sydney, Australia |
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I haven't seen any Gurren-Lagann and I feel like I'm missing out.
RahXephon on the other hand is a fantastic series! There are some very direct comparisons that can be made to NGE but it is still awesome in its own right. It still amazes me just how many people haven't even heard of it! If you've just written off RahXephon as a cheap copy, you're missing out! Do yourself a favour and watch it! |
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14767 |
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What turned a lot of fans out of Eva was the ending - or should that be endings.
But as it was coming out, people were following it - immensely and intensely. You couldn't move a foot in the internet without stepping onto an Eva discussion... er... philosophy debates, often enough. 
This was before the era of "instant" fansubs/commercial releases, so these episodes were coming out in lapse of months (not weeks), thus dominating and elongating these discussions for a year and a half or more. Add in the movies (it was originally supposed to be a movie, but later made into 2 due to circumstances), the mania was able to build up and build up even more, fermenting over a longer period of time. And that's how the Eva mania got staying power. Last edited by enurtsol on Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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maaya
Posts: 976 |
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I think the new EVA movies remove much of the depression-parts of the original series (and I guess it's because the director himself has also overcome his depression, which reflects in the new take on the characters). Ok, it's possible the next movies will turn this around again, but we'll see.
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Levitz9
 Posts: 1022 Location: Puerto Rico |
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Why do I keep hearing people say this? I always found that the similarities end at the conceptual level. Besides, GaoGaiGar was the last entry to Sunrise's Brave series (which included Brave Fighter Exkaiser and the like). They could have just been ensuring a proper send-off to such a successful franchise. I'll always hold that Eva is the Watchmen of anime--a demonstration of how good storytelling can work in a medium (as well as a work that fans love to contemplate their navels over), but I don't understand why everyone claims GGG is some sort of optimistic response to it. By that logic, so is Godannar and Gravion. Speaking of...I remember reading someplace that Betterman and GaoGaiGar took place in the same universe. |
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Vortigernus
 Posts: 13 |
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Nice list, but you forgot one final blatant rip-off.
Ever heard of Bokurano? It's pretty recent, 2007 vintage, I think. I'm surprised this one didn't come up in your article, seeing as this anime is from studio Gonzo, and therefore relatively well known. |
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Mike Toole
 SubscriberANN Columnist  Posts: 105 Location: THE GOOD OLE U-S-A |
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Wow! M-m-massive response, gang! I'm at work so I can't turn in a novella-length rebuttal/response, but a few things:
Both Eva movies came out in 1997? My memories are colored by seeing a camcordered rip of End of Eva at Otakon 1998 (one of the first big public showings, legit or otherwise, of the film) and I didn't bother checking that fact. Serves me right! Dai Guard: I can see the similarity to the angels that the Heterodynes have - but IMO the angels themselves owe such a huge debt not just to super robot monsters, but to 70s tokusatsu monsters - they really remind me of the baddies from Space Giants, Ultra 7, etc. I also feel like Dai-Guard was a realistic parody of super robot shows, with its brightly-colored hero robot practically falling to pieces in the face of realistic physics. I'm sure Evangelion colored it, but I don't look at it and see something that couldn't possibly have happened without Eva. Nadesico: Can't agree at all. The show is really obviously a swipe at Yamato, with borrowed elements from Macross, Getter Robo, etc. It was in pre-production before Evangelion debuted. GaoGaiGar: Was not a response to Evangelion. Was a toy commercial first and foremost. Studio 7 being given free rein to develop the story and pushing out a positive, fast-paced heroes vs villains epic in the show's 2nd half? Yeah, that might've been in response to Evangelion's tone. Thanks for the thoughts, keep 'em coming! |
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The King of Harts
 Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
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I think people keep saying Nadesico because ADV really hammed up "similarities". I think in one of the commentaries, Matt Greenfield mentioned purposefully having Spike play Akito because Akito is like anti-Shinji. He also talks about how they're both the main characters, but use girly colored mechs.
So I blame ADV for causing people to think Nadesico relates to Eva the same way Rahxephon and TTGL do. |
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Hardgear
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Heh, I actually got to watch Eva right after it finished coming out on DVD. One of my friends had been buying em as they came out and practically force-fed them to me after he had the whole series (knowing that I preferred to do whole series marathons, or at least over 2-3 days).
It never held my interest for more than 1 disc at a time, even if I had the time for a marathon. If anything I was fairly neutral on it: I didn't particularly care what happened next, but I didn't exactly hate the show, and thus I finished it after a week. I already had mixed feelings bout the series cause of my vehement hatred of Shinji (without him I may have actually enjoyed the show (I personally find it hard to enjoy a show where I despise the main "hero")), but the ending really turned me off. I still bought the box set when it was on sale though, for historical value more than anything (I am like the anime library for my group of friends, thus I gotta have everything that was influential in my collection). BUT, after reading this article I got a new found respect simply because I now realize how it got Betterman made. I don't know why but I love that show a lot more than I should. I realize and admit that most everything about it is a train wreck, yet Betterman did something Eva never did for me: Made me pop in disc after disc until it was done (and this was after I had already seen it on TV). I think I just enjoyed how the "story" constantly spun off on some crazy, and often downright creepy tangents. As for the rest of the list, I enjoyed Dual quite a bit. And of course the pure unfiltered awesomeness that is Gurren Lagann seemed to pass by in half an hour despite me watching all 27 episodes back to back. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Upon reflection, that's quite a noteworthy point. I admit to failing to make such a connection when watching the relevant episode of Nadesico. |
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Echo_City
Posts: 1236 |
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Akito is definitely more of an "anti-Shinji" than Simon his. Shoot, Simon is Shinji. He spend the entire series being a total wimp. At first he could only be inspired to greatness by Kamina's mentoring. Once Kaminaspoiler[ died (to Simon's incompetence]), Simon was still a pathetic loser. The only way he could muster up the courage to do what needed to be done was to channel Kamina, going so far as to dress like him. It reminded me of the end of Kenichi where, despite all his training, Kenichi is spoiler[still a pathetic wuss and can only achieve victory by forcing himself into the mentality of his mentors]. Though I have definite bias when it comes to TTGL. In my eyes, when Kamina spoiler[died, so did TTGL]. 
Back to Gasaraki, I'm still not seeing how it relates to Eva. The mythological beings that the mechs were linked to were not trying to attack Earth to get back their captured kin. In Eva there were no forces at work trying to restore Japan to its "former glory" at the expense of the world. (I wouldn't equate Gendo's HIP to this.) Where were the extremely nationalistic & blatant allegories about Japan in Eva? In that regard (social commentary), Gasaraki was a more violently driven Eden of the East. Are vague character similarities and similar associations between myth and machine the only pieces of evidence for the Gasaraki case? [Mod Edit: Please tag your spoilers. Thank you. - Keonyn] |
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Lordziba
Posts: 41 |
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Hey guys, why nobody mentioned Cybuster? Aqurion was mentioned once, and to some degree Super Robot Wars as well as Stellvia(?) and Infinite Ryvias (?). All of them could be linked to Evangellion.
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HandofBobb
Posts: 81 |
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I realize I'm probably one of like 10 people who actually liked the show, but what about Kurogane no Linebarrels?
I've watched most of the named series, and actually own both Gasaraki and RahXephon, which I both hold up as great series. I enjoyed Dual and thought i was fun and light hearted enough to not be "uncouth" as you put it, as opposed to Devadasy, which was totally "Let's make Evangelion, but with SEX!" Betterman and Brain Powrd, I am gonna have to rewatch again sometime, as my initial viewings left me somewhat confused- In betterman's case, I blame the US TV Broadcasts, while in Brain Powrd's case, the delay between releases made it hard to keep up with the ever-shifting plot and cast of characters. I definitely see Eva's influence with Eureka7, another of my all time favorites, although watching RahXephon > Eureka7> Xam'D, one could just as easily see an evolution of a particular story Bones seems to want to tell. While one could dra a parralel between CC and Rei, I think that Code Geass is really much more Gundam than Eva. Just with the Soap Opera parts cranked up to 11. Also, this year's Infinite Stratos, while blatanty harem, the mecha plot is fairly strongly influenced by Eva (reluctant lone Male pilot under the command of a family member, and so on...) |
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Lordziba
Posts: 41 |
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Hand of Bobb wrote:"I definitely see Eva's influence with Eureka7, another of my all time favorites, although watching RahXephon > Eureka7> Xam'D." Sorry, this is might be off topic, but how is the Xam'd? I am thinking to buy it?
Thank you in advance. |
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