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Goggen
Joined: 08 Feb 2011
Posts: 88
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:29 am
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Just when you thought the "what is moe" debate couldn't get any dumber, someone goes and throws a completely new definition into the ring. Apparently, "moe" now means "children having sex".
Well played...
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Cptn_Taylor
Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:22 pm
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Fencedude5609 wrote: |
Huh? Who mentioned Boku no Pico? What does that have to do with anything? |
You guys are incredible. If you don't understand what Boku no pico has to do with moe then my friend you're a lost cause. Wether you do it on purpose or not I don't know. But I certainly recognize denial in full when I see it.
Oh well I've already expressed my opinion on the subject, no point expanding it further.
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Fencedude5609
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:23 pm
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Cptn_Taylor wrote: |
Fencedude5609 wrote: |
Huh? Who mentioned Boku no Pico? What does that have to do with anything? |
You guys are incredible. If you don't understand what Boku no pico has to do with moe then my friend you're a lost cause. Wether you do it on purpose or not I don't know. But I certainly recognize denial in full when I see it.
Oh well I've already expressed my opinion on the subject, no point expanding it further. |
Haha. No. You are the one who makes the assertion, thus you are the one who has to explain it and back it up.
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ReverseTitan
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
Posts: 109
Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:31 pm
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RyanSaotome wrote: | For the first question, it should be mentioned that many seiyuu actually ARE established music acts, too. Many seiyuu put out their own CDs and are essentially idols in their own right... its not like the American dubbing industry where all they do is voice an anime and thats it. Some are also part of existing music groups as well, like Sphere and YuiKaori. So there probably are some examples where they just do it because its cheaper, but its also because these are seiyuus with existing fanbases among the audience the anime is aimed at, and they want to hear their newest songs. |
Actually, in both countries, some anime VAs do US cartoons, which is far more lucrative in both countries for pay and recongition(for Disney and Pixar stuff at least), hence why Koichi Yamadera is known Donald Duck over there and not Spike or Togusa, while over in the States he's Spike.
Of course, in the States once one gets roles in US cartoons, one almost never goes back. Troy Baker is a nice example, as well as Crispin Freeman and Daran Norris, where in Japan, US cartoons are done by every voice actor, due to bullshit I will not mention.
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Touma
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:49 pm
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Cptn_Taylor wrote: | Moe (let's put in the 2 most relevant manifestations lolicon and shotacon) are pornographic ... |
If you have been following the thread you know that you and Echo_City are the only people who think that "moe" and "lolicon" mean the same thing. And he seems to have quit, considering that he made his last post before you made your first.
The point is that you know that people do not agree with you about moe being the same as lolicon.
Cptn_Taylor wrote: | No I'm not trolling. |
Even though you know that people disagree with the meaning and you could just as easily use "lolicon" exclusively for what you are saying, you still use "moe" because it incites a response from people.
That is trolling.
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Kaisos Erranon
Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 214
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:50 pm
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Cptn_Taylor wrote: |
You guys are incredible. If you don't understand what Boku no pico has to do with moe then my friend you're a lost cause. Wether you do it on purpose or not I don't know. But I certainly recognize denial in full when I see it. |
You are a troll. I can tell, because I myself am a troll, and we recognize our own kind. Like Cylons.
However, if by some infinitesimal chance you are not a troll, you seem to be confusing "moe" with "anime porn", which would make you a complete and total [insults removed].
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FenixFiesta
Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:11 pm
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Quote: | You are a troll. I can tell, because I myself am a troll, and we recognize our own kind. Like Cylons. |
A truest of statements on the internet that thou hast ever have read.
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Shiratori1
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 300
Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:16 pm
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Cptn_Taylor wrote: | I never used the term moeblob. But I still think people that like lolicon and shotacon should be bashed until the end of time. |
Yeah, the only person that should be "bashed until the end of time" is you for being a condescending jerk of a troll.
Quote: | And once again you're confusing the cause with the effect. The moe feeling is created not by you but by those that are producing/animating the series/characters. The moe feeling is CONSEQUENCE of how the characters are depicted. And drawing them in the puni plush style + sexualizing them induces in the viewer what you aptly called the moe feeling. Now some viewers are more receptive to this while others are not. But DO NOT CONFUSE cause and effect. |
BALONEY!
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Rederoin
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1427
Location: Europa
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:24 pm
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Cptn_Taylor wrote: | Well at least with Urutsukidoji and Kanashimi no belladonna you know that you're looking at material designed for adults. Animated pornography where the characters are adults, and most importantly look like adults.
Moe (let's put in the 2 most relevant manifestations lolicon and shotacon) are pornographic but a pornography that is considered world wide as being illegal. Because it concerns animating child like characters in sex scenes.
The two things are not comparable at all. |
Loli/shota porn is not illegal in most countries, actually.
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superdry
Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 1309
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:34 pm
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Cptn_Taylor wrote: |
And once again you're confusing the cause with the effect. The moe feeling is created not by you but by those that are producing/animating the series/characters. The moe feeling is CONSEQUENCE of how the characters are depicted. And drawing them in the puni plush style + sexualizing them induces in the viewer what you aptly called the moe feeling. Now some viewers are more receptive to this while others are not. But DO NOT CONFUSE cause and effect. |
Both Priss from BGC and Deedlit from Record of the Lodoss Wars are two of my favorite female anime characters of all time.
Both of them are pretty moe to me. But, I guess I was wrong all along this whole time then.
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Cptn_Taylor
Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:59 pm
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superdry wrote: |
Both Priss from BGC and Deedlit from Record of the Lodoss Wars are two of my favorite female anime characters of all time.
Both of them are pretty moe to me. But, I guess I was wrong all along this whole time then. |
So you feel the need to protect Priss ? Priss needs no protection, the others around her are in need of protection. In my case I've never felt all warm and fuzzy and motherly towards Priss. On the other hand I find Priss sexy. But the feeling to protect her ? Hell no.
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Fencedude5609
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:02 pm
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Cptn_Taylor wrote: |
superdry wrote: |
Both Priss from BGC and Deedlit from Record of the Lodoss Wars are two of my favorite female anime characters of all time.
Both of them are pretty moe to me. But, I guess I was wrong all along this whole time then. |
So you feel the need to protect Priss ? Priss needs no protection, the others around her are in need of protection. In my case I've never felt all warm and fuzzy and motherly towards Priss. On the other hand I find Priss sexy. But the feeling to protect her ? Hell no. |
So wait all of a sudden you are using a different definition of moe? One that just happens to allow you to make a cheep, insulting shot at another poster?
How interesting!
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HitokiriShadow
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:06 pm
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Cptn_Taylor wrote: |
superdry wrote: |
Both Priss from BGC and Deedlit from Record of the Lodoss Wars are two of my favorite female anime characters of all time.
Both of them are pretty moe to me. But, I guess I was wrong all along this whole time then. |
So you feel the need to protect Priss ? Priss needs no protection, the others around her are in need of protection. In my case I've never felt all warm and fuzzy and motherly towards Priss. On the other hand I find Priss sexy. But the feeling to protect her ? Hell no. |
That has nothing to do with your previous assertion. Thanks for confirming that you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15315
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:51 pm
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Paiprince:
Quote: | These are the same crowds who regard brainless shonen like Dragon Ball as the magnus opus of anime. |
That's Toonami. Totally different audience.
Quote: | Melfina, Aisha, Eureka and even Anemone say hi. |
Unless they're the product of hentai dating sims, they do not count.
Quote: | Yes, and every American and European are supporting the industry right? Don't be stupid. |
They're supporting the product more than the non-Japanese consumers, anyway.
Quote: | I don't know who you hang out with, but I'd get a shocking reaction from someone if I just pulled some random BL or yaoi pic and show it to some "normal" person to say the least. |
I said random still shots. I did not say gay porn shots.
Quote: | Also, I like how you clearly ignore the magnitude of vehement fervor the fujoshi crowd emit when it comes to their hawt guys. |
Because they keep it to themselves and don't plaster that crap on banners or cars everywhere they go.
Zalis:
Quote: | Yes, spectacular Geneon sales failures like Fighting Spirit, Heat Guy J, Cybuster, Demon Lord Dante, and Rumiko Takahashi Anthology certainly were awful otaku-pandering moeblob-fests that turned viewers away en masse. |
You forgot Rozen Maiden, Familiar of Zero, and Nanoha. Oh, and that shitty Ken Akamatsu thing which I guess is different from his other shitty stuff, because it's technically SFW. What was it again? Oh, yeah, Mao-Chan. Oh, and what was that other one? Right, Girls Bravo.
Quote: | So what we need to revive the Western industry is more tentacle rape and fewer girls playing guitars. Got it. |
I'm arguing that moe is as bad as tentacle rape, but more dishonest about its intentions, which is why everyone's sick of it. I'm glad they can occasionally do something meaningful with moe which isn't deliberately pandering to otaku, but K-On's still basically the anime answer to Jem and the Holograms. I.E. it's still a gimmick, it's just a more mainstream palatable one. It doesn't do anything beyond that set-up.
superdry:
Quote: | Both of them are pretty moe to me. But, I guess I was wrong all along this whole time then. |
Yup.
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Krotchstak
Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 94
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:03 pm
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Fencedude5609 wrote: | MOE IS SOMETHING FELT BY THE VIEWER. It is not a trait intrinsically held by a character. Just because I find a character moe doesn't mean you will, and vice versa. |
By its original meaning, yes, and under that meaning, "moe" has no real shape. It could apply to Priss or Deedlit or whoever floats your fancy.
The recent trend that people hate seems to be one where characters are designed specifically to elicit "moe" feelings through visual shortcuts (youthful look, big eyes, etc). That's not so strange - a lot of the techniques are straight out of old Disney style manuals. I don't know if I'd go so far as sexualization - most creepy "moe fans" seem to assert that the style is "pure" - but they are definitely designed so that fans will gain that knee-jerk feeling of "love" towards a character. It's pandering, but then again, so is the fujoshi-bait stuff. Hell, so are giant mecha battles. One isn't really inherently worse than the other, it's all a matter of taste.
And while it's always sort of irritating when one style dominates, that's anime for ya. I'm sure something else will eventually come along.
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