Forum - View topicKantai Collection -Kan Colle- (TV).
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Stark700
 Posts: 11762 Location: Earth |
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Episode 12/Finale:
It was an spoiler[okay battle imo with the teamwork and stuff. I wish Shimakaze got a bit more screen time though as I don't even see her in the final fight. But I guess a happy ending will do. I actually thought Akagi would of been sunk for a moment from the beginning] Interesting to see spoiler[Nagato] on the front lines though on-screen for the first time. Rating it as decent. There's also a sequel announced. My guess is another season but a movie can also be possible. |
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Plasmaeclipse
 Posts: 153 |
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Well that was an ending I guess....things just kinda fizzled to an end.
At least things blew up in a more satisfying manner. spoiler[*in a flat monotone voice* oh look Bukki saved Akagi and lent the most to the victory with her tactics. Akagi even looks at her like she's some angelic force who can defy the will of fate. It was such a swerve I never saw coming. Mind:Blown.] spoiler[Okay Ooi you're off my ****list for now because you superkicked a destroyer and then blew it up mid-air. I don't care how annoying you are that's still ****ing awesome. Between that and Natago punching one ship in half and then kicking a Chi-class in the face the violent fanboy in me is pleased ] spoiler[*plays the pokemon evolution theme* Congratulations your Airfield has evolved into a Midway] Also did they ever sink Black Wock Shooter at all during the final battle? I know they sank a bunch of other random Wo-classes over the course of the fight but I the animation on all of them was jank so I couldn't tell if any of them was the one-eyed one.spoiler[ Maybe she was the one that talked as she sank, also the Abyssals talked this time so that was neat] spoiler[ohai Deus ex Taihou how are you] Despite my overall negativity I am actually looking forward to the sequel. They pulled out a bunch of concepts such as fate, as well as all the weird s*** spoiler[Midway] did leaves me feeling hopeful that they will explore the origins of the Shipgirls more as well as elaborate on the Abyssals. I'll wait until the daily review gets published before putting up my overall thoughts on the series. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23812 |
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I've rated this title Good. I found it consistently entertaining and cute. I'm glad spoiler[the gals were able to overcome fate. Seeing a bunch of cuties go to the bottom of the sea] would not have improved my life.
Like I said in the relevant Talkback thread, I hope the sequel will be another cours and not just some OVA/movies. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15483 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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It was weird, it looked like Tsubuki was about to go into fight her, but it was pretty much done off screen as she said that she sunk her. And then we heard her woefully calling them to "give it back", which was kind of confusing for what should have been a scene of good guys beating evil guys. Episode 12 (finale) It was an okay episode, and although there was what should be an exciting battle, it did not feel as exciting as it should have been. I will chalk some of that up with my problems of the series as a whole. Perhaps it is not an issue to some, but the theme of following the personifications of Japanese WWII ships, and that we were meant to cheer on recreation of Japanese victories, can be a little hard with what the Japanese campaign was. That this was time repeating and that we could distance these girls to the actual campaign, did help a little towards the end. More immediately was the cast. Although it was varied, especially early on it felt very one dimensional that all the characters were more of stereotypes than interesting characters. For me, what really helped in the character department was when they introduced Kongou, who was some real personality that the series was missing. Just giving a quarter of the personality in getting characters to do something interesting would have helped, in the last episode we did get a spoiler[pretty good drop kick by possessive girl]. The characters largely were not that interesting to watch, maybe the lolis had something, but their episode was about making curry and looking like they were mature. And why were they afraid to give any characterisation to the admiral? But there were able to give a major WTF scene that apparently he was supporting Tsubuki because of some getting married dream. I had high expectations of this series, I have seen quite a lot of fan art, so I was hoping for something deserving. But really this became something I was not that much looking forward to each week, there was some nice style here and there, but its substance and controversial setting did not do much favours. I rate it So-so. Although it did not really grab my attention now, I am interested that if there is a sequel they might be able to make the characters more interesting, move the plot away from historical battles (since it has changed now), and might actually go into what the deal with the Abyssals is, I hope for some dark reveal. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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Apparently, the idea of anthropomorphizing Japanese WW II warships into cute girls and having them refight WW II battles and winning (thus "fighting fate"), effectively re-writing history, turned into some sort of success... at least with some people. Personally, I find the whole idea very distasteful. But to each their own.
I guess when you were on the wrong side of history, this is one way to make it more palatable to modern audiences. |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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For a mediocre series, this was a terrible finale for a season.
The irony is that it became to "video gamey" in regards to how much combat was needed to win there current battle. The failing of this finale could also partially be blamed on the nature that the show went through a fair amount of effort to make a homage to the historical defeat at midway for the semi-finale(even throwing in the appropriate carrier girls that have not been established proper for the season) where instead a different less historically themed episode might have been a better path to this cluster of a season closer. |
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Shikiari
 Posts: 462 Location: Wales |
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Episode 12
I don't know if it's because I play the game, but I quite enjoyed the season finale. So spoiler[Bucky saved Akagi] which was not entirely unexpected after word of the "sequel" surfaced. The action was pretty good and it did feel like it was playing out like a game more than other episodes in the series. It was also good to see a few more fleet girls make appearances and especially see spoiler[Nagato and Mutsu] in action, if only a little. The ending was quite interesting with the spoiler[flower clip surfacing after the Airfield Princess/ carrier group was destroyed]. If anyone took note, then it was the spoiler[flower clip that Kisaragi (sunk ep3) wears as part of her attire. It almost certainly implies that sunken fleet girls return as Abyssals]. I'm going to rate the series so far as Great, i'm looking forward to seeing which direction they decide to take it in and hopefully more members of the cast including the Submarine girls. |
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Plasmaeclipse
Posts: 153 |
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Was that supposed to be the one-eyed Wo-class? Last time we saw her she was behind the fleet, I guess one of the many new Abyssal abilities is teleportation. And of course the artwork on all of the Wo-classes in the finale was kinda bad and never gave us a close look at their faces so I really can't tell. Maybe she just left and will come back in the sequel. spoiler[Maybe she'll copy Airfield and evolve into a boss level carrier] Anyways this Finale was weak. I found most of the action to be really disappointing The only time I got excited were spoiler[The two times they actually got physical with the enemy which were Ooi's superkick to that destroyer, and Nagato kicking a chi-class in the face] the rest of the action was just the standard motions. People skate around as the water around them explodes, they do a little flourish (usually a spin) before striking their pose and firing. It's fine for the average episode fight because I know they're skimping on the budget there but this was supposed to be the big earth-shattering finale I expected something a bigger. Instead it was more of the same except there was triumphant music and the fighting lasted twice as long as usual. They should have been a bit more hectic with it, have the enemies get up close and personal, let the girls get a bit more physical with the enemies. Also Ooi has demonstrated that you can in fact jump with rigging on so maybe having someone jump over a torpedo barrage before firing off their cannon would have been coo just saying. I had to actively mute Akagi everytime she was on screen because for some reason she's decided to be a depressed fatalist the entire episode. Having Akagi harp endlessly about how hopeless the battle was got freaking annoying. While I don't have a problem with the concept itself, having the girls actively rewrite history, especially after going through such lengths to recreate the events (more or less), is rather distasteful to me. Kancolle really doesn't need to get political since it's concept is already so divisive and something like this starts to feel like it's doing just that. The fact that the bosses are obviously based on historical bases is already questionable enough, actively framing the plot as them fighting fate really is kinda blegh. Overall series impression....meh.... I really wasn't impressed by this. I wasn't expecting very much out of this. I knew going in that it was a cash grab and that it would be middle of the road fan pandering. Heck I was okay with that idea, Kancolle has a huge fandom and I was curious about it, as long as it managed to fill out 20 minutes decently I would have been okay. If it had just been a bunch of slice of life shenanigans with the occasional one off battle I probably would have been fine. In fact episode 6 (the curry episode...nanodesu) ended up being my favorite in hindsight because it was that middle of the road pandering stuff. But then the characters. They just chose to do the worst, most annoying things with them usually taking a single character trait and focusing only on that. Ooi's possessiveness want ramped up to 11. In the game she seemed rather polite and well spoken, the only caveats to that were she is overly affectionate of KTKM and that she hated the admiral. Amine Ooi is just full yandere which was annoying even discounting the fact I hate yanderes in general. Kaga (one of my favorites btw), similarly had her pride amped up to 11, she went from being a serious stoic type to a complete arrogant b****. Her rivaly with Zuikaku was shallow and never properly resolved (I think I already mentioned how it could have been done in a previous post). And then of course there's Bukki f****** Fubuki. I don't what they were smoking in regards for her character but towards the climax she just became the biggest mary sue. She started off as the plucky underdog. She was naive and didn't know anything and her development was totally predictable. She fumbled into her flagship role, and you would expect the typical elements where she would have to get comfortable with leadership, pull her team together, and finally demonstrate her growth by inspiring others. Instead she kinda leap frogged over the second step into the third before skyrocketing in the climax to becoming the Chosen One for some reason. She appeared in the admiral's dreams (UGH), started doling out wisdom to Akagi, and now in the climax Akagi is staring at her like she is some goddess among women who can defy the very will of fate. It's so stupid and made me hate Bukki so much I just want her to go away or become a minor character. Everyone else....who cares about everyone else they aren't Bukki and that makes them not important. Yamato probably had the second most development next to her and in the end that arc was peripheral to Bukki's own expanding importance. Zuikaku and Kaga should have had the next most but their plotline seems to have been torpedoed so they're just kinda over their rivalry now. And then weirdly enough the Akatsuki's had some development even if it was just the curry episode (Inazuma for protagonist she's a starter ship too, and she has an interesting character trait that could be explored). Oh and I guess Poi-chan had her Kai ni but she didn't demonstrate any change from that so who cares. The "plot" was extremely disjointed, never built on previously established points well and ended in a massive cluster**** that didn't even give us particularly great action. I was able to sit through the first 8 episodes just fine but starting from ep. 9 the entire climax arc was just dreadful and I stopped looking forward to what came next. Instead I was just hoping (in vain) that the episode would defy my new lowered expectations and laughed whenever it validated by low opinion instead. I expected more from this series, which is amazing because I expected mediocrity, I delved deeper into the fandom so I could understand the hype behind it all and this went from being an acceptable time sink to an active hate-watch. The fandom really does deserve better than this and I'm hoping the sequel will explore all those dangling plot points that this season just left to pasture. My rating for this is Below Average It would have been plain average if it wasn't for that shipwreck(pun intended) of a climax arc but what'cha gonna do. |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13230 |
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Yeah, but why would spoiler[a destroyer come back as a carrier?]
You must have spaced out again. She was the last Wo-Class to appear and they did a close up of her face. It was weird they didn't spoiler[show the kill shot. Fubuki fires and then everyone goes "the carrier was sunk!"] It's then implied that spoiler[she was Kisaragi all along.]
But it was properly resolved. Watch the ending again. In regards to people's uncomfortableness, I kinda get it but at the same time I think you need to get past it. Japan did a lot of bad things in World War II, but this show doesn't take place in World War II and none of these girls have done any of those horrible things. Whatever their ancestors were involved in, they're innocent of it. Fate might have similar events play out, but it wasn't under the same circumstances. Makes me wonder why Strike Witches never had that held against it. Strike Witches actually takes place in WWII era and several of the girls aren't reincarnations, but actually are various Axis ace pilots. I guess people were too busy complaining about the lack of pants. Going in I did expect something like Strike Witches, a show I love, but I think Kancolle tops it by having more of an edge to it. There was plenty of awkward moments where game quotes were forced in there despite not fitting the context and I do think that whole Fubuki dream thing was off as well. Still for the most part it was bright and cute and fun with plenty of moments that hit you right in the feels. Fubuki was great with her hard working and never give up personality breaking through even to the more jaded veterans. But it also had the sense to show that you can work too hard. So it goes without saying I'm ready for more. |
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Plasmaeclipse
Posts: 153 |
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Hm. *goes back and looks again* Okay I missed that. spoiler[And yet I noticed the implication that she was Kisaragi] Okay the fact that they are suddenly cool with zero development or pathos cannot be considered proper resolution. They have not related to each other or hashed out their problems in any meaningful way. Kaga got asploded for Zuikaku and then Zuikaku did her own thing for the rest of the episode and then after that they're just kinda cool now. |
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3653 |
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But this show actually uses historical events, and then portrays them going differently as a "good thing" that "changes fate." Which makes it an uncomfortable thought. The nonsense about the "girls being innocent" is nonsense, because they don't exist, the time period doesn't exist, the war doesn't exist. The writing does exist, though, and it pulls very directly from WWII, and just as I would be incredibly uncomfortable with a fun show that shows how it would have been a great triumph if the U.S. had won the Vietnam war (whatever that would mean) in some fictional alternate universe, it's an eyebrow-raiser here. And no one needs to "get past it." It's an aspect of our reaction to the show, and there's nothing that makes the reaction invalid. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
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There was a bit more to it than that. Obviously Zuikaku's opinion of Kaga increased when Kaga took that hit, and after Zuikaku makes it through the Coral sea battle Kaga acknowledges Zuikaku's skill. They're still a bit tsundere with each other but that acknowledgement is there. Then we have this episode spoiler[where Zuikaku saves Kaga this time.] Sure it didn't recieve a super heavy focus but enough was there.
Strike Witches is basically "What if WWII was interupted by aliens?" The main problem of historical "bad guys" being portrayed as good guys the audience is supposed to like still remains.
You can't ignore the context. Like I said, the characters haven't been doing the bad things their ancestors did. So why would them being spared the same fate be a bad thing? If they were doing stuff like making surprise attacks on countries they weren't at war with and the show was saying how glorious that was that would be bad. That would be saying "All the stuff Japan did in WWII righteous and we should have won!" Instead they go through events that are similar, but not exactly the same as, events from the past. Past life events repeating is hardly a rare storytelling element.
Needing to get past something doesn't make it invalid. Being sad a loved one dies is valid but something you must inevitably move on from. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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Vaisaga, you're conflating the events within the show with the show itself as a product. Yes, internally they go into this whole "the girls are innocent, Japan is just defending itself" stuff. But we, who are watching this show, do not exist inside of a vacuum, nor do those who created this show. *That* is what we are talking about here. The girls are actually Japanese Imperial Navy warships: they take the exact same stats that the warships have and use the exact same names, and put them into engagements that closely or exactly correspond with real battles that occurred in the WW II Pacific Theater. The whole goal is to *avoid repeating the past* -- that is where the whole "fighting fate" thing comes in. The obvious inference here is that the audience is supposed to become emotionally invested with the Ship Girls, which is exactly why they look the way they do, and to cheer them on, against enemies that had combat attributes largely identical to Allied (largely US) naval forces that Japan was fighting at the time. So of course make the girls cute and innocent, and the "bad guys" alien, threatening, and inscrutable. Hooray! They'll defeat the "Abyssals" this time around! It won't be like last time! They'll defy their fate (the actual historical events) so that the outcome is victory, not defeat! So, yeah, I find that uncomfortable -- no different than cheering on the anthropomorphized and moefied Third Reich forces as they destroyed "aliens" trying to invade the Fatherland. As for Strike Witches -- I never once thought that the alien forces in that were a stand-in for anything. In fact, I sort of thought that it missed the chance to tell an interesting story -- more like it started to, but then gave up on it. Also, I don't recall any battles that were based off of actual historic events, but maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention, or I could've simply forgotten about them as it has been a while since I saw it. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15483 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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By Acknowledging that the actual ships were a separate entity, it kind of helped separate the characters from the actual events, but this felt it like it came a little too late. There is a very thin line, and having all the girls be literally moefied versions, who really don't make sense that they are actual people that turned into this ships but substitutes for actual events. Copying actual events can be cool, but double edge sword. It reminds me of feeling uncomfortable if you manage to see a racist Loony Toones episode from the period which acted as propaganda.
Did those planes that were not bombers spoiler[actually kamikaze, the ones that I think were sea planes or something]? |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
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The ones Mogami launched? spoiler[They didn't. They dropped bombs, but I see why one might think they kamikazed.] |
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