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EP. REVIEW: One Piece


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bigivel



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:20 pm Reply with quote
Wyvern wrote:

That said, I was disappointed with the core of the episode, namely the way Rebecca was written. Suddenly the show forgets that she's an experienced fighter who has won more consecutive matches than any current gladiator, and is so skillful that she did it with a blunt sword, all while refusing to use direct attacks. But in this installment, she just freaks out and runs away from Diamante until Kyros comes to save her. I'm not saying she would crush him, but she should at least be able to hold her own.

I was really hoping for a cool father/daughter team up fight, or maybe for Kyros to get to see the results of all the training he put her through when he was "Soldier-San." Maybe that can still happen later on, but I was let down to see Rebecca diminished like this.


Spartan won the monthly coliseum tournament 51 times and was one-shot with extreme easy by Luffy. Your point is mute!
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:52 pm Reply with quote
bigivel wrote:
Spartan won the monthly coliseum tournament 51 times and was one-shot with extreme easy by Luffy. Your point is mute!

Yeah, I thought it was pretty obvious that the people who were on hand for the tournament for Ace's fruit were a cut above. Rebecca has some decent skills as taught by her father, but it should be clear that she's out of her league against the guys that make up the latter part of Dressrosa. I'll grant that she's tougher than presented, but Rebecca against Diamante would last SLIGHTLY longer than Rebecca against Luffy (assuming he actually was evil and/or wanted to kill her).
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Wyvern



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:53 pm Reply with quote
bigivel wrote:


Spartan won the monthly coliseum tournament 51 times and was one-shot with extreme easy by Luffy. Your point is mute!


Not relevant, since Rebecca is fighting neither Spartan nor Luffy. And anyway, I had interpreted that to mean that the monthly tourney is where the weaker fighters compete (or maybe Spartan is just a boasting jerk.)
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:01 pm Reply with quote
Snakebit1995 wrote:
Barbobot wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
This was a neat episode, in part because it maintained focus on Luffy's group the entire time instead of skipping from subplot to subplot. And I love the cliffhanger, with Sugar coming back. Anyone else think that Sugar's power is the scariest one in the entire series?

That said, I was disappointed with the core of the episode, namely the way Rebecca was written. Suddenly the show forgets that she's an experienced fighter who has won more consecutive matches than any current gladiator, and is so skillful that she did it with a blunt sword, all while refusing to use direct attacks. But in this installment, she just freaks out and runs away from Diamante until Kyros comes to save her. I'm not saying she would crush him, but she should at least be able to hold her own.

I was really hoping for a cool father/daughter team up fight, or maybe for Kyros to get to see the results of all the training he put her through when he was "Soldier-San." Maybe that can still happen later on, but I was let down to see Rebecca diminished like this.


But didn't they already establish during the final battle at the Colosseum that Rebecca really was no match for people like Diamante? She had already come up against him in that setting and others who could hold their own against him and she realized she really stood no chance.


Oda is a great writer, but Rebeca has been a character he's clearly struggles to understand what to do with. She gets hyped up at the start, but as the arc goes on she almost vanishes into obscurity and struggles to find a place in the actual plot.

A good amount of people don't like Rebecca, she's just so misused and her outfit isn't helping matters with the fandom (but i think there's a logic behind the reason her chain mail is so reveling)


Have to agree with Barbobot. Rebecca's fighting style is purely defensive and reactionary. It works fine in the coliseum where she can win with a ring out (which, iirc, is the only way she's won), but in the real world, it doesn't help much in a real fight.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:06 pm Reply with quote
Wyvern wrote:
Not relevant, since Rebecca is fighting neither Spartan nor Luffy. And anyway, I had interpreted that to mean that the monthly tourney is where the weaker fighters compete (or maybe Spartan is just a boasting jerk.)

Rebecca was obviously outclassed in the coliseum finals (with Burgess, Diamante & Ace), she was not gonna hang with Diamante 1-on-1. If you wanted more time of Diamante toying with her... hey if that's your kink, whatever, but honestly it was partly "luck" for her that she made it out of the D block in the tourney. Yes, her skill saved her, but Cavendish would've beaten her if not for his "problem". And even in the finals, Diamante WAS just screwing with her.


Last edited by HeeroTX on Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ViscontPenRoth



Joined: 10 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:09 pm Reply with quote
I wish that Rebecca was used more in this arc, and I hope she will be able to fight offensively. I'm guessing she will change clothes after Doffy's defeated.
Like a lot of people, I don't really like the pacing of an episode per chapter. I'd rather have filler than having episodes where barely anything happen. And we still had filler for some reason between Punk Hazard and Dressrosa.
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bigivel



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:55 pm Reply with quote
Snakebit1995 wrote:


Oda is a great writer, but Rebeca has been a character he's clearly struggles to understand what to do with. She gets hyped up at the start, but as the arc goes on she almost vanishes into obscurity and struggles to find a place in the actual plot.

A good amount of people don't like Rebecca, she's just so misused and her outfit isn't helping matters with the fandom (but i think there's a logic behind the reason her chain mail is so reveling)


No, he doesn't struggles at all about what to do with her. You're the ones that wanted a bad-ass female fighter and so hate just because she isn't that.

Even before Rebecca came, a lot of people were talking about the Straw-hats next member being a Bad-Ass female fighter with an Akuma no Mi, even when there wasn't any indication that Oda would do anything of the genre.

When Rebecca appeared in the Coliseum, this same people started an ovation about her being their next member, being a bad-Ass fighter and being the one getting the Mera Mera no mi.
Even when in her first appearance other gladiators were teasing her about being the "undefeated woman", being a "great warrior", and also about Spartan being her long time Bully, Spartan being the guy that Luffy moments ago one-shot with extreme easy.
All her later appearances and character development were never about her being like that.

What you call hype, is just something in your mind. What you call misused is you wanting to see something that she never was made to be. Instead of seeing the character and understanding her(or at least trying), you just had an ideal of a fighting female character that you projected onto Rebecca.

As soon as you started to see that she wasn't supposed to be what you idealized, it started the hate.
This same people still kept wanting her to turn into their idealization later, for what was called a redemption(like what her character was from the start was wrong), not understanding that she was never supposed to be and do what you idealize.
Every time that happens something where she possible could be bad-ass and fight against an amazing foe, and that doesn't happen, it comes again the hate.

The problem was never of Oda and his creation of Rebecca, the way he presented her was always pretty good. The problem was of the fans and their stupid believe that a female to be a good character she has to be a bad-ass female fighter. Being that one of the reasons you complain a lot about Nami and Robin not having individual fights against strong enemies.


Last edited by bigivel on Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bigivel



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:01 pm Reply with quote
Wyvern wrote:
bigivel wrote:


Spartan won the monthly coliseum tournament 51 times and was one-shot with extreme easy by Luffy. Your point is mute!


Not relevant, since Rebecca is fighting neither Spartan nor Luffy. And anyway, I had interpreted that to mean that the monthly tourney is where the weaker fighters compete (or maybe Spartan is just a boasting jerk.)


Spartan never boasted about that! It was a note about his victories. Others coliseum fighters called Spartan the star of the coliseum gladiators in that tournament(that not being the monthly tournament, but the one Luffy just entered).

You interpreted that the monthly tourney is something for weak people, but did you ever interpreted that you don't know what fights Rebecca did in the Coliseum? Because you totally don't know, so you can't say that because she is an experienced fighter there( Spartan also is) she should be able to endure Diamante more.

Did you forgot that Spartan was a long time Rebecca bully? What do you think that says about her? That she should be way stronger than him?
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chex mix



Joined: 28 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:12 pm Reply with quote
Rebecca is a garbage character. It has nothing to do with her being a weak fighter. It is about her being a weak person. She's a plot device during the Colosseum part of the arc, a damsel in distress during the rest, and a flat-out burden as things get hardcore. She's given flashback after flashback and none of them are the least bit interesting, while they're repetitive as hell and constantly throw off the momentum of the arc. If Rebecca didn't exist, the arc would be tighter, better plotted, and more interesting. Same for Kyros. There are too many new characters to digest all at once already, and no room for boring ones or ones we'll likely never see again. Rebecca is a third-rate Vivi, who at least had an animal friend to carry her through the arc. Rebecca sucks for the same reason Shirahoshi sucked. She's whiny and has no personality other than "weak plot device damsel in distress type."

That said, I'm glad to see One Piece getting coverage here. I hope it continues.
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Snakebit1995



Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 842
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:56 pm Reply with quote
bigivel wrote:
Snakebit1995 wrote:


Oda is a great writer, but Rebeca has been a character he's clearly struggles to understand what to do with. She gets hyped up at the start, but as the arc goes on she almost vanishes into obscurity and struggles to find a place in the actual plot.

A good amount of people don't like Rebecca, she's just so misused and her outfit isn't helping matters with the fandom (but i think there's a logic behind the reason her chain mail is so reveling)


No, he doesn't struggles at all about what to do with her. You're the ones that wanted a bad-ass female fighter and so hate just because she isn't that.
.


First, i didn't get into One Piece until the fight between Usopp and Sugar in the underground port, so i wasn't part of the community till after that. But i do understand the want for a new crew member (We haven't gotten one since Brook and he hasn't done much either + a new girl would be nice, a new face in general)

And I wasn't asking for Rebecca to be a badass character, I just want her to do something besides sit and cry and ask for people to save her. Yes her style is defensive and we are told that earlier on, but why was it not progression for her to be forced into offense as opposed to staying defensive. It would have been excellent progression for her to be force to fight instead of crying about it like a baby.

Instead of using this arc to show Rebecca becoming a strong independent girl, she has been relegated to the damsel that at first sigh of trouble cried for Daddy to come save her. She's fought in gladiatorial combat for years, hasn't lost and only played defense, why not adapt her fighting style and force her to have to be offensive, tear down the ideas of not hurting anyone that Solider forced on her. Make her become her own person, not one who's idea were placed upon her by others.

This arc was a chance to see Rebecca grow up, instead she's been forced to remain as a weak child (Yeah she's 16 but Vivi was that age when she was forced to grow up and save her country.)
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Videogamep



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:06 pm Reply with quote
I'm wondering if she'll get any screen time outside this arc. Oda's introduced way too many characters for all of them to be confined to this arc.
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Madoka...AYUKAWA!



Joined: 14 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:02 pm Reply with quote
QUIET the lot of you. You have plenty badass women in One Piece, there is a whole country of badass powerful women. Rebecca is only a 16 years old girl! that only wish is to live in peace and never hurt anyone as her mother wished.

And this damsels in distress feels so much like reading all this feminism and S.J.W. propaganda.

Rebecca is fine as she is.
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Nyaomix



Joined: 13 Apr 2015
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:10 am Reply with quote
The new crew member definitely needs to be Bartolomeo. Nothing really wrong with Rebecca, she was thrown into a horrid situation as a child and unlike Vivi or Viola wasn`t infiltrating the group and learning real skills. She was thrown in a cage and left to die.

I`d much rather have Rebecca over Nami, never liked her character. It is a real shame that brook has been sidelined for this whole arc. He needs more screentime, because he still is just not that prominent of a character, despite how he should be handling things as well as Sanji and Zorro

I too want this arc to move faster but it`s hard with the sheer amount of characters present. Most importantly though we need a new opening. This opening bothers me every time I start the episode and have not yet skipped the first 6 minutes to get to the show.

My real interest in the series came with Ivankov from Impel Down. This series has a good way of showing flaming transvestites in a favorable light. Only one I know which plays up the stereotypes so hard but manages to make the characters likeable.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:56 am Reply with quote
Snakebit1995 wrote:
And I wasn't asking for Rebecca to be a badass character, I just want her to do something besides sit and cry and ask for people to save her. Yes her style is defensive and we are told that earlier on, but why was it not progression for her to be forced into offense as opposed to staying defensive. It would have been excellent progression for her to be force to fight instead of crying about it like a baby.

Rebecca was taught fighting by her father, he taught her to DEFEND herself because of his fear that one day he would not be able to do it. Rebecca is clearly not supposed to be an "attacking" character so it makes no sense for her to progress to a more "offensive" style. She fights pretty much out of necessity, not choice, and once her father is restored, HE doesn't want her fighting either. Yeah you COULD do a whole "rebellious teen girl shows how she's grown" thing, but
a) she's more or less a throw-away, plot-specific character (like Shirahoshi, or Vivi) and...
b) it's a BOYS comic that is ultimately gonna have Luffy "saving the day", so who cares whether or not Rebecca is able to take the next step in the art of sword-fighting, especially since even IF she were able to successfully be more "offense" oriented, she's STILL not on a level to fight the "big" guns like Diamante. Of the GUY heroes currently in battle, I'd say only Luffy, Sabo, Zoro and Kyros should realistically be able to take him. And Kyros, only to pay off the "legendary" gladiator thing they built up.

If you consider Doflamingo to be the "captain" of his group, then its just him and Luffy in a class of their own. But after that, you have Pica, Diamante and Trebol as the TOP officers, meaning comparatively those guys should be on par with Zoro and Sanji. And I don't think for a SECOND that Rebecca could hang with Zoro or Sanji (again, if we ignore that they're heroes and and Sanji won't hit women).

EDIT: also it's long expected that Jinbe will join the crew EVENTUALLY, especially since Luffy already offered him a spot. I don't think Bartolomeo should join the crew, it doesn't seem like you could keep the "fanboy" angle if he did. He should lead his own crew of a "mugiwara-fan" pirates or something. I would expect either one of the Wano samurai or Viola to join if anyone from Dressrosa, but I don't necessary expect anyone from Dressrosa to join. I COULD see several of the factions to be seriously recurring though.

Sabo+Kaola are no brainers, as is Fujitora (curious to see what happens with him moving forward). Bartolomeo needs to be recurring, but I really would prefer him not in the crew. And I'm honestly not sure where Oda is gonna go with the Samurai dudes.
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billybob8476



Joined: 03 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:51 am Reply with quote
Just want to say thanks to Sam for doing the review for this show. I also want to say good luck because while this episode had some good material and nuances, some episodes of OP can REALLY drag. But I've got faith in ya. Keep up the good work!
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