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INTEREST: Idol Fined 650,000 Yen for Dating Contract Violation

She did know what she was getting into [...]

Actually you don't know exactly what she was getting into, unless you know her and her family personally and had an insight into the contract she or her parents signed by yourself.

But what we know is that she's a TEENAGER, and person who is in a crucial period of time, psychologically speaking, a period of time in which she/he still needs to find and sort out who she/he is*. And how does a teenager do this? Well, by INTERACTING with other people, especially with peers, also from the opposite sex. The moral implications of being an idol strips this away and is therefore dehumanizing to the core. This is why people are outraged.

It doesn't matter if "a contract is a contract". The girl is not allowed to be an individual person anymore, she becomes public property, which is being monatized by her company, and must oblige to chastity in order to preserve moral standards of "purity" and "good behavior (for a woman)". Do you really think a 15 year old girl would understand this?

1 - This is a violation of Human Rights. No state is entitled to allow or disallow someone to explore her romantic affections and/or sexual desires.

All countries mutate... And Japan is no exception.

The Otaku need to be taught that an idols private and stage life are different and they are human and must be respected like everyone else, it's unhealthy to want control over an idol's private life and if they need to control somebody to be happy, they need to seek mental help. Also, the over obsessiveness with chastity is a sign of mental illness and they should get help if they can't like an idol who's dated, had sex, or is married.

* ( stating that people at age 15 can be held fully responsible for breaching a contract when it involves such issues with deep implications like forbideness of private dating with people from the other gender, is insensitive and proof of a lack of understanding of youth psychology).

Hellsoldier wrote:

1 - This is a violation of Human Rights. No state is entitled to allow or disallow someone to explore her romantic affections and/or sexual desires.

Um no. An idol promotion company is not a state. It is a private company and therefore exempt from any laws that specifically pertains to governments.

Companies in America put limits on employees all the time. They quite legally limit freedom of speech, demand that employees wear certain outfits, even have requirements regarding weight gain or loss.

More pertinently, some companies ask employees to sign 'cupid contracts' which demands that the employee refrain from forming romantic relationships with coworkers.

I said she knew exactly what she was getting into.

Fifteen is not a child, and by that time teens are already expected to be choosing their own career paths. If society can trust teens with the rest of their lives, surely we can trust them with a few years?

Swissman wrote:

Actually you don't know exactly what she was getting into, unless you know her and her family personally and had an insight into the contract she or her parents signed by yourself.

Did you bother to proof-read your post before you submitted it?

I said she knew exactly what she was getting into.

Swissman wrote:

But what we know is that she's a TEENAGER, and person who is in a crucial period of time, psychologically speaking, a period of time in which she/he still needs to find and sort out who she/he is*. And how does a teenager do this? Well, by INTERACTING with other people, especially with peers, also from the opposite sex. The moral implications of being an idol strips this away and is therefore dehumanizing to the core. This is why people are outraged.

Actually, people are outraged because they don't understand that limits on personal freedoms is par for the course. Don't believe me? Sending your child to a gender-segregated school would - under your own logic - deprive them of a normal childhood, because they cannot socialise in a structured environment with members of the opposite sex. This is a patently ridiculous notion.

Further on from that, not being able to say what you think - curtailing your freedom of speech - could also arguably be "dehumanizing" (as you call it). Yet almost all jobs no matter what they are have clauses which limit what you can say, especially if you should happen to damage the reputation of your employer. [...]

As for this girl's age when she signed, fifteen is old enough to understand what "no socialising with the opposite sex" means.

[...]

She willingly entered into a contractual agreement knowing full well that boyfriends were off the table.

Her parents agreed. So just drop...

Swissman wrote:

It doesn't matter if "a contract is a contract". The girl is not allowed to be an individual person anymore, she becomes public property, which is being monatized by her company, and must oblige to chastity in order to preserve moral standards of "purity" and "good behavior (for a woman)". Do you really think a 15 year old girl would understand this?

...the age argument.

Oh.

*sighs*

Fifteen is not a child,

and by that time teens are already expected to be choosing their own career paths. If society can trust teens with the rest of their lives, surely we can trust them with a few years?

There is a reason over 80% of US kids change their majors when they get into college. http://borderzine.com/2013/03/college-students-tend-to-change-majors-when-they-find-the-one-they-really-love/

And it's not like she was sold into sexual slavery by Boko Haram. She had the option of quitting her idol job if she wanted boys more than money. (Or a college education more than song&dance lessons, or...) And "graduating" from her idol group may have left her 5 friends employed, rather than dissolving the group.

If she wanted everything at once, well, sorry, that's not how the world works. If, tomorrow, I decide I'm sick of non-disclosure agreements, I better quit my engineering job... not go blabbing industry secrets far and wide while expecting to keep my position.

Look man, please chill. I'm being civil here and I'd appreciate that you do the same. If you're going to continue to be that condescending and hostile then I'll just report your post and move on. I'm not insisting that you agree with what I say (which is unfortunately a demand that so many in this thread have made towards myself and others). But at least treat me fairly. I'm on your side; I also against the idol industry and want to get rid of it. So don't treat me like I'm The Enemy just because our viewpoints don't align one hundred percent.

You are correct that I didn't attack the industry straight away in this thread and in fact took a while to do so. But that doesn't mean that I only started to hate the industry from the time I started posting about it in this thread. I've hated the idol industry for a few years now, and have made posts in previous threads expressing my discomfort with the system and mocking fans for being so stupid and unreasonable.

A nuanced opinion doesn't decide to forget about facts in some vain attempt to be 'fair and balanced' (my words, not yours). If I wanted that I'd go to you-know-who.

But in a wider discussion of the idol industry, is it unfair that idols' private lives are severely curtailed? All idols knowingly and willingly agree to this stipulation when they enter into the industry. Plus the very industry the girls want to be a part of would not exist without this stipulation. Given those two things, no, the stipulation is not unfair. Oh, it's weird and creepy and maybe a touch impractical, but it's still not unfair.

Kai99 wrote:

There is a reason over 80% of US kids change their majors when they get into college. http://borderzine.com/2013/03/college-students-tend-to-change-majors-when-they-find-the-one-they-really-love/

Let me quote a previous post:

Mikeski wrote:

And it's not like she was sold into sexual slavery by Boko Haram. She had the option of quitting her idol job if she wanted boys more than money. (Or a college education more than song&dance lessons, or...) And "graduating" from her idol group may have left her 5 friends employed, rather than dissolving the group. If she wanted everything at once, well, sorry, that's not how the world works. If, tomorrow, I decide I'm sick of non-disclosure agreements, I better quit my engineering job... not go blabbing industry secrets far and wide while expecting to keep my position.

Using your analogy, it's more like a student started partying after she got admitted into a first-rate college and wonder why she's failing all her classes and eventually expelled. If you want to party, feel free to drop out. Otherwise, you've got to study. That's the point of going to college.

*Contract Violation

While I do agree this is over the top, it was in the written agreement. This article also points out the group dissolved when this member was caught, and it caused to group to break up. Part of the fine was to reimburse clothing and lesson costs.

The alarming part is what the judge says with quite a narrow view of idols. Everything else seems to be by the (law)book.

Well, you see it as "mental illness", I see it as a symptom of larger social trends of increasing gender equality, poor work-life balance and rising single-hood that lead to a desire for companionship. Many people are just not able to get married or find a significant other and they turn to idols, manga and anime to fill in the emotional gap. It's completely understandable why they'd behave like that. It's easy to blame the person, but I'd recommend a closer look at their circumstances to fully understand the situation.

What I did say and mean was that my opinion is nuanced because that I find fault with the girl but I also hate the idol industry. My opinion on this particular case may be straightforward, but on both this case and the industry as a whole - which are the two main topics of this thread - there is nuance there. I make the distinction between the evils of the industry and the irresponsibility and foolishness of the girl.

Let's take a look at some "barbaric" practices being done today. Such as inhumane treatment of animals, ISIS beheadings, abortion, child slave labor, human sex trafficking, human organ trafficking, domestic violence and abuse, rape, murder, and theft.

No, what we are talking about is not the same. For one, my argument is against the idea that she, as a fifteen year old teenager, fully understood what was getting into, both in terms of what fame meant and the sacrifices she would have to make in terms of the contract. Teens brains are still developing and they lack the same conscious decision making that adults have. To dismiss her youth and say she is just as capable as any adult to understand the terms of a contract and be able to sign such a contract, is MY issue. A better analogy would be that 17 year olds in the US are able to take in thousands upon thousands of dollars of loan money to pay for college without fully understanding what that will mean for their life after college.