Forum - View topicThe X Button - First Impressions: Nights of Azure
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AiddonValentine
Posts: 2209 |
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My guess is that MOST of them don't know because reducing things to a patronizingly simplistic viewpoint is what hate groups do. Nuance isn't allowed in these types of situations lest the agenda be sidetracked. All this does is make me take gamers less and less seriously. |
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theycallmekorn
Posts: 11 |
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I'll start by saying that I find it a shame the she was fired. Alison Rapp, along with many other female gamers, were the against Nintendo removing the boob-slider is XCX. Which makes sense, because not all women have as large of breasts as the default size for your avatar in that game and part of character customization is being able to make a character similar to yourself for immersion(though I never do, but many others do). I don't know much about her, but she seems to be more in line with sensible censorship rather than broad-stroke censorship.
That said, I am happy the someone got fired. Even if it makes me sound like a pile of trash, and even though I know that this smear campaign will not prevent future censorship, I am still happy to hear about this story. Personally, I am against any censorship in localized games. I tolerate it, since I am not the type to plunder the internet in order to find any tidbits of dirt that I could use against people unrelated to my cause and also since I ultimately just want to play Nintendo games and stripped content seems to be given with them. But I still cringe every time I hear about some pathetic pandering to overly sensitive special interest groups and wish that it would stop. Most of the time the changes implemented have no bearing on the overall experience of the game, but once I hear about a removed outfit or some change in the dialogue I can't help but dwell on that fact the entire time I am playing the game and end up pulling myself out of the narrative and spoil my own enjoyment of it. This incident makes me hopeful that somehow these GG creeps will become as loud and obnoxious as all the other overly vocal and in your face special interests groups that it will somehow eventually force Nintendo (and other companies as well, like Square Enix and Blizzard) into catering to them as well and become more lenient with their self-censorship practices. As it stands, the moment a feminazi (different from sensible feminists that have lead to positive changes in society) or outraged parent (different from sensible parents in that their children often times end up over indulging in everything that is bad for them later on in the life since their parents have sheltered them for so long that they now have an insatiable desire to experience these bad things) makes a peep, Nintendo caves and makes a change. But if GG becomes crazed enough to match them, they might second guess their actions as it may lead to another case of their employees being horribly harassed, putting their personal safety at risk. |
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WEL
Posts: 14 |
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Then what we get is that you still managed to get everything wrong. The supposed harassment Rapp got was just people writing rebuttals to her expressions about gamergate on twitter. And gamergate did that because she started making fun of them when they were trying to write letters to Nintendo about the removal of certain elements from Fire Emblem. The pedophilia expose against her was out of the blue written by a troll that calls himself John Kelly and the ones to contact Nintendo about it was the Wayne Foundation. And everything exploded not because of gamergate but because of journalists looking to write scaremongering hitpieces about gamergate, which only helped to put a target on Rapp for Nintendo to take notice. Remember that she's PR and who wants a controversial PR? At the end Nintendo said they fired her due to her having a second job where she posed in risque photos. And for the record, this entire ordeal happened like 2 months ago but Nintendo only came to fire her a few days ago. ----- Edit: And talking about controversial PR's, do you guys remember about Adam Orth? Microsoft fired that guy just for telling people to "Deal With It" on twitter when the Xbone was announced as always online. But nobody cared about him even when he was on a conference later on talking about how he was harassed off his job. Last edited by WEL on Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dessa
Posts: 4438 |
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Just something I should point out, since I think it's a gross omission in the article: From everything I have read, the thesis paper was not about "child porn." It was about other countries having no right to criticize Japan for it's laws (or lack thereof) regarding animated "child porn." Basically, she was saying that since other countries don't understand the intricacies of Japanese culture, they shouldn't criticize laws (or lack thereof) regarding hentai anime involving minors. Not actual, real-life child porn. And she wasn't speaking for/against it, just other countries' responses (again, from everything I have read, I haven't read the paper itself).
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Chagen46
Posts: 4377 |
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Uh...that's not exactly true. The article's point was that the US had no right to pressure Japan to adopt its (the US's) CP laws when those laws have been shown to be pretty much ineffective. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Hmm, what would you say is the root of sex as a taboo in the United States then? This is something I have been thinking about for a long time because the United States is one of the most strict countries in terms of laws concerning sex and pornography, and it's reflected in its very anti-sex culture. The idea that the culture was derived from Puritanism, which considers all forms of recreation a sin except for consuming alcohol, was the best explanation I can think of. I know about "separation of church and state," but it's pretty hard to truly separate the two of them when the overwhelming majority of a country's population was of the same religion at the time. The United States is not officially a Christian country, but it is full of very devout types, as evidenced by the presence of a Bible Belt and frequent use of the phrase "this great Christian nation." And you got me. It's been a long time since I studied the Abrahamic religions because I wanted to understand the real origins of some of these cultural phenomena, but I guess I mixed some of them up in the years since. What I could remember was merely thinking about sex, according to Jesus, is a sin.
As far as changed dialogue goes, sometimes, the changed dialogue is better than the original, and the phrase "Woolseyism" was coined from that. I can think of the Paper Mario games, whose dialogue went totally off the rails but was so good that the English-language version outsold the original Japanese version big time, and the Paper Mario games (well, the first three anyway) were games where the characters were a bigger draw than the gameplay, which is admittedly pretty plain and forgettable. As a Paper Mario fan, I wouldn't have it any other way (which is why I'm one of the ones dissatisfied with the series's direction from Sticker Star and onwards). Gamergate will never become a major movement as long as it has no leader. With no leader, every faction will want to push the group in its own direction. This means it'll try to spread out in every direction, reducing its effectiveness in anything it does. Leaderless Anonymous movements only work when there is a visible and clearly present target and the goal of the movement is simple and straightforward, like Project Chanology. Gamergate, however, is trying to be many things at once, and because it's trying to do many things at once, including opposite things, nothing gets done. |
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NearEasternerJ1
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Leafy, the laws are not strict in the USA.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_by_region They're stricter in the Middle East (obviously) and Asia in general. Certainly less so than Japan. Obviously, the USA is not a centralized country, so laws vary, but overall, it's not strict. Also, unless you think all of America is influenced by the South, I would suspect that attitudes towards sex are influenced more by the lack of content. After all, the Dutch Bible Belt predates the U.S. one by quite some time. Yet the Netherlands as a whole is consistently socially-liberal in every aspect of its society. |
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Guile
Posts: 595 |
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Society has always had a double standard when it comes to issues with men and women, like how it's much worse to hit a woman than a man. When those private female celebrity photos were leaked awhile ago, Gawker journalist wrote articles on how the person who did it was human slime, and how it was an invasion of privacy for those women, and anyone who continued to share those photos should be locked up. Yet during the Hulk Hogan Sex Tape fiasco, apparently he had no rights to privacy because exposing a man naked is not seen as humiliating as if it were a woman. You would think distributing private photos should be bad no matter what and not limited to the gender of the individual. In the video game sphere, it doesn't help misogyny is a buzzword that attracts press and views. Gamers have had issues with plenty of male individuals like Anthony Burch, Tim Schaffer, Phil Fish, the guy who made That Dragon, Cancer and your example of Adam Orth. It's just they're not as newsworthy as running articles whenever gamers hate women like Anita Sarkeesian or Zoe Quinn because it draws in more views and paints a more flavorful narrative to say "misogynistic hate campaign" rather than just "hate campaign". I imagine if you tried to write "misandristic hate campaign" it would be taken even less seriously. |
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5836 Location: Virginia, United States |
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It’s a war. There are going to be causalities in a war. Both sides, whether pro-censorship or anti-censorship, are playing a scorched earth campaign. The pro-censorship side uses the mantle of moral superiority to vilify the other side. It’s been perfectly acceptable to broadly label those that like Japanese games and anime with fan service as pedophiles, creeps, degenerates, and misogynists to shame them into silence. While the other side uses terms that ANN filters out supposedly. But there are the threats, name calling, slurs, doxing, and other internet related stuff. When it comes down to it both sides uses the tools they have at their disposal, whether you like it or not. You can blame social media and the internet age, because they have allowed the bad actors and bad apples on both sides to marshal up their like minded supporters.
I feel sorry for the innocent lady, because if she didn’t become the focal point of the rage against Nintendo, she would have probably kept her job. But doxing is the new age tool for liberals and conservatives nowadays. But none of this should be a surprise, because it is a war, and all of us in the middle are its victims. I feel sorry for Japanese gamers, who are feeling the spillover of this battle on their shore and wonder if we are going to get a new round of IP banning and hate from Japanese fans for foreign intervention.
Too true.
A meaningless distinction to the ones on the receiving end of said censorship.
He might well have survived that, if one of the groups he was targeting wasn't the military. |
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animefanworried
Posts: 126 |
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The topic of gamergate can be a thorny and difficult one. But the problem is that many of its enemies ascribe them crimes they haven't committed, label them and constantly attempt to sully their image unjustly. Perhaps a better way to change public perceptions on the topic would be for people to read more than just the mainstream media and game journalists (Who have a vested interest in no one questioning the press or its integrity). They are articles out there that can do more to illustrate the complexity if the issue than listening to the group's most vocal dissenters.
http://observer.com/2015/10/blame-gamergates-bad-rep-on-smears-and-shoddy-journalism/ This is one such article. No vitriol, just decent, unbiased journalism. Which leads me to question: Was gamergate even responsible for the latest scandal? Yes, extremists in the group have actually done some pretty nasty things but they have been the exception and many incidents were unjustly blamed on gamergate in the past. Since this entire story started facts have been distorted and people have been selective on both sides about which "facts" they wanted to present. |
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Mr. Oshawott
Posts: 6773 |
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^
Thanks for the link of that article. It shed some light on some interesting info about Gamergate that I wasn't aware of until now. |
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GVman
Posts: 729 |
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The interesting thing about the Bible is that most lines tend to have multiple interpretations. For this one, Matthew 5:27-28, I've seen it interpreted as that, and I've seen it interpreted as one shouldn't lust after people's spouses. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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I do more often hear it interpreted as lusting after other people's spouses, so I'll take your word on that. Of course the Bible was written thousands of years ago, so obviously there's no one to ask for what someone really meant. And the famous King James version was translated from the German version. I don't know if there are any versions between the German version and the original ancient Hebrew and Latin versions, however, but things will get lost in translation, and the more languages you translate to, the lessof the original point remains.
Nevertheless, I always figured that people of the United States are more adherent to Biblical law, or at least Biblical morality, than most other Christian countries. Of course, they pick and choose which ones to follow and which ones wouldn't; we wouldn't have all these NFL games on Sundays otherwise. |
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