Forum - View topicINTEREST: Manga Artist Criticizes Messages in Pop Culture Validating Mediocrity
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c933103
Posts: 64 |
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From what I read earlier, able to sold 200-300-ish copy of same doujin can already be count as rather successful
It appears to me that quite aw few Japanese people stop believing anything can be changed if they work hard, to the point that it might appear to be foolish to think hardwork can change anything |
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omiya
 Posts: 1830 Location: Adelaide, South Australia |
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Also, I get annoyed by people who obsess over working harder, but not smarter. It's better to look at different ways to achieve goals than simply burn oneself out working harder. |
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Juno016
 Posts: 2393 |
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I'm not quite sure what would be considered "successful" when selling online from what may be the most prominent doujinshi-marketing site in Japan for newcomers. They don't share numbers publicly. But I definitely know that most newcomers order about 500 copies to start when selling online and about 200-300 to start when selling at Comiket. Once you get big, you can sell tens of thousands of copies sometimes. Either way, putting them up on a site is really expensive by itself, and the production costs outway the rewards. You have to make partnerships and split costs to be more efficient, from what I know. |
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ConnormonCat
Posts: 57 |
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His point is oh so very clear in a lot of ways sadly. It's a good sales pitch with 'you're perfect the way you and you don't have to do anything about it,' and it's clear in shows like Watamote.
But I feel like he many be blowing it out of preportion; at the same time, wasn't alot of the 90s and 00s about perseverance, never giving up/never say die, understanding your weaknesses and growing from them and just about everything 90s Shonen taught us? Shows like Dragon Ball, One Piece, heck even Pokemon, teach us about pushing for 110% and not just sitting on your arse for your friends. Shows like Watemote and other otaku pandering shows exist, but honestly, do they have even close to the same effect we saw with Dragon Ball Z and the big shonen of the 90s/00s? |
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kenrobinson1982
Posts: 7 |
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The irony is that the more someone applies themselves to their work or studies or family, the less time they'll have for entertainment... like manga.
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Clarste
Posts: 428 |
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Have you actually read ReLife? The story hates workplace culture. The main character isn't unemployed because he's lazy, he's unemployed because he was too honorable to continue to work for an unethical company and got blacklisted afterward. Seriously, being an obedient salaryman is portrayed as the worst possible thing you could ever be. |
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melmouth
Posts: 167 |
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First, the Japanese Way of constant all-out struggle seems like a nightmare to me. I believe it to be a temporary product of the desperation of the post-WWII period.
Second, a bit of historical context is in order. For most of the post-WWII period the advanced nations of the world (excluding Japan, which was struggling mightily to get over the devastation of WWII) recognized the principle that the goal of their economies was to make life good for their people, NOT vice versa. That all began to change when the Soviet Union fell—and, by extension, the whole socialist world view, including even that of the law-abiding, thoroughly democratic Social Democrat parties that had been thriving in Europe, was weakened everywhere. Into that political vacuum stepped neo-liberalism, which confidently predicted that unalloyed capitalism and globalism would make the world wonderful (Google the essay "The End of History"). You young folks are now living out that neo-liberal dream, and I think more and more of you are discovering what a nightmare life can become when the Owners of Capital have unquestioned, limitless power to run your societies just as they wish. I figure it will take about a generation of the resulting increasing misery to make working people rebellious again. |
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Pipoko
Posts: 165 |
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If he would mean it as a criticism against characters who are perfect and get everything magically handed to them (Sword Art Online's Kirito), I'd agree with it, but this doesn't seem to be the case.
It's about how they don't give 110%. Giving 110% can be extremely unhealthy. New stories telling these people to try their best, instead of trying to "give 110%" and through that destroy themselves is actually a good thing and much more humane. I get the feeling that mangaka is exactly supporting this unhealthy attitude and wishing it to return. |
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EricJ2
 Posts: 4016 |
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For salarymen and students, it may be the social pressure where your very public life and career depend on Protesting Too Much and saying, "Look, I'm achieving, I'm achieving, already!" With corporate workers, your job and office standing may be at risk if you don't go dangerously drinking with the guys four nights a week, and students during Test week literally brag and compete with each other to show how little sleep they're getting to devote to last-minute studying. (Hence the old saying, "Lose with six, win with four".) As Bonk observes, the western idea is that it's not being lazy to say It Ain't Worth It. You don't want to be the most successful guy in the hospital. There is a balance between getting the good things in life and having the space to enjoy them once you've got them, but you have to develop that space on the way up. The new post-Recession Japanese, who don't believe they'll find a job to give 110% to, are now more in search of personal satisfaction (whether retreating or finding new creative outlets), and to the old guard, the "selfish" idea of finding your own happiness is either "pwoosh!" or Dangerously Lazy and Subversive. As Toei says, what would Ashita no Joe say about not Doing Your Best? |
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Azmodeus
Posts: 185 Location: Sweden, ass end of nowhere |
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Count me among the people who have become even more jaded towards the "Only those giving it 110% should be in the running" then the "everyone is special" sentiment. Sometimes giving it your all will be rewarded, other times you need a miracle to even get by in spite of either talent or dedication. That being said, i do on the other hand agree that a lot of manga/anime stories recently are bit too convenient in their storytelling. You need to show both a struggle and favourable circumstances for both achievments and achievers in a story to feel "real" IMHO, which is why i dearly hope training arcs gets a bit more fleshed in the years to come.
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Polycell
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supersqueak
Posts: 194 |
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I would love it if he could give some examples of what he was talking about. I mean I don't know what he means by people celebrating mediocrity but it's only natural that not everyone can be the best at something but I don't think that means people shouldn't try or be proud of themselves for what they are or have accomplished. I mean how does one measure success anyway? Not everyone is going to see things the same way. I think that it's best to not strive to meet anyone else's standards but your own because at the end of the day you are the one that has to look yourself in the mirror. Maybe the "mediocre" person wont be the most rich or the most famous one but we are all human and going to die one day anyway so it matters whether you are happy with the life you lived. What I hate is that so many people don't even feel encouraged to try their best because society is always telling us that our efforts don't matter if we are not naturally talented or the "best".
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southplumb
Posts: 35 Location: Durham, North Carolina |
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The idea of putting everything you have into something sounds good, though it can result in health problems, or effort for appearances that isn't actually very effective, etc., but I'm not sure giving 100% in life is the same thing as doing a lot of overtime work. Maybe Japan's economy would improve if working hours were shorter and companies had to hire more workers, so more people would have money to spend, increasing demand for the stuff Japan produces. I haven't followed Japan's economy closely, maybe this has already been tried.
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casualfan
Posts: 333 |
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The Japanese is currently known for a bunch of workaholics, so I would say a lot of people still put lots of effort into what they're doing. If he's referring to the hikkikomori or the otaku who fits the stereotype of still living in mommy's basement, I guess he's somewhat right. Still there's a lot more to the problem then just manga's influence. Besides, most shounen shows like DBZ, HunterxHunter, Naruto, etc still follow the formula of train your butt off to surpass your opponents. I'd say this guy generalizes his message from a few modern manga that he read.
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