Forum - View topicSubaru Natsuki: The Best and Worst Thing About Re:Zero
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whiskeyii
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His first interaction with Priscilla. She clearly didn't need to be saved, clearly didn't want Subaru to interfere, and didn't feel the need to thank him for butting in and trying to earn some brownie points for playing the hero. Everyone else up to that point, save Beatrice, seemed to politely indulge his babbling, but that moment for me was a giant red flag that foreshadowed Subaru's downward spiral. |
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NeverConvex
 Subscriber Posts: 2311 |
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Great essay, Jacob! I've a few nitpicks, but other people have already picked at them for me, so I guess I'll just say that - given its track record of not overlooking characters' flaws or flawed relationships - I'm hopeful that none of the Rem-Subaru nor Subaru-Emilia idealizations, codependencies, displays of entitlement, pedestal-placing, etc. will be showered with unadulterated validation by show's end (though it seems we're still a long ways off from that, if we consider the obvious need for extra seasons). I certainly agree that it is thematically important for the narrative to be satisfying that these very human flaws and flawed relationships not be heaped with uncritical praise.
Mmm, and I guess I can't entirely help myself, since (although others have touched on it) I want to add that I think R;Z's inspection of the psychological devastation that can result from repeated, gruesome deaths has been a particular highlight of it as well. The way in which R;Z subverts genre-standard, hand-waving uses of the 'reset post-death' trope has stood as a particularly good example in my mind of how much more seriously R;Z is willing to consider its world and characters than most trapped-in-another-world shows (which is a tad funny, since Subaru not casually abusing his ability by committing suicide whenever narratively convenient seems to be a complaint others have, while I think that's a notable strength of the show). |
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Mitrospeed
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The funny thing is that the author actually has these people covered with an "What if chapter". It's basically one huge "well you wanted this, here you go and now live with the consequences" by the author. And believe me it's not pleasant to read at all. I really wouldn't be surprised that people who wished for Subaru to constantly abuse his power suddenly fell into utter silence and appreciate the direction of the story at this point more. To get back to the start of the quote. One of the biggest strengths that this entire story has is definitely its characters and by that I mean actually the entire cast. I'm sure the vast amount of content ( including spin-off series focusing on entire backstories and worldbuilding ) is a big reason for why this is possible but it's also the way Tappei manages to keep everyone at a narrative leash. Every character has multiple roles in this world that develop constantly. Never do you have the feeling that a character has fulfilled his role in the eyes of the plot and now can rest on the reserve bank for the rest of the story line. Their motivations develop throughout the story and are influenced by common or contradictory goals. Especially the amount of connectivity between characters, their backstory, this world's history and specific events is baffling to me over and over again. Willhelm is actually the entry characters towards this treatment regarding the cast. This big + point is one of many reasons why especially an arc 4 & 5 adaptation would be really appreciated. |
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings
Posts: 1009 |
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Not at all. Subaru gave Rem the emotional support she needed, so why wouldn't Rem do the same? And the main reason for Subaru thinking of himself as useless and worthless is that he can never save anyone despite his efforts, which Rem can attest is definitely not the case. Once she helps Subaru realize this, he regains a bit of his confidence back. |
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AsuraTheDestructor
Posts: 466 |
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I wonder if Mitrospeed/ Essay-kun has anything to say about this.
Otherwise, I think Jacob Chapman is still caught in the trap from the anime itself. By the end of the season, this will be all the more clear with Arc 3's ending. |
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Mitrospeed
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There are some parts where I disagree with Jacob, mainly towards the end of his paragraph but that's mostly because I know what episode 1-17 and especially episode 18 is in the scope of the entire current story ( and what this season will adapt ). So yeah I'm heavily biased which isn't exactly the basis for a discussion on equal grounds. Even if I tried I can't delete what happens after episode 18 and until arc 6. Since I really don't want to argue with spoilers in a thread directed towards anime only viewer I leave it at that for now. I really hope tho that we will get an updated version once the season ends  !
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 2945 Location: Email for assistance only |
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The bolded part is where we disagree. See, his lingo is supposed to be funny at least to the otaku audience who are watching from a safe distance. The other characters interacting with him in the show though? They don't find it funny. They seem to just shrug it off since they have no idea what he's talking about. It doesn't take much imagination to know what it's like to be their shoes though. Most people have encountered a Subaru in real life and found their, albeit good-natured, over excited rambling cringe-inducing. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Yeah, I tried to balance being really thorough and still economic with this big ole piece, but that's definitely the most misleading thing I wrote.  Sticking in a line like "(Actually, it takes way too damn long for him to get to this point, like holy shit dude.)" would have been a distraction, and I did say I wanted to leave the issue of the show's pacing out of it. So I just kept it about Subaru's characterization and only that. Writing about the pacing at all would've spun off in a whoooole 'nother direction.
And I can totally accept that Subaru's character arc is still developing. I'm sure the story isn't remotely done exploring his faults and their consequences. My point was that, from my perspective, it still doesn't excuse the undercutting impact the scene has on the show's ideas (as described by FenixFiesta below). No matter what directions the story takes afterward, I just don't think there's any excuse for painting that resolution the way they did. Of course, you may disagree, and that's what critical discourse is all about. Last edited by JacobC on Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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As others have given similar comments to, the issue is that Subaru IS very much a NEET, Otaku, occasional chuunibyou shut in of a character, the way the scene plays out paints Rem to be an almost saint like possibly angelic figure sent directly from heaven to "forgive Subaru (and possibly the target demographic) of there sins". It is more than just a character giving a metaphorical hand and shoulder to lean on, especially considering some of the Fandoms reaction to Rem she is now "top list Waifu" territory which goes against the grain of what is supposed to be much more difficult relationship between Subaru and Emilia. I can agree with the sentiment that what is a pivotal moment in the narrative "should like good" but damned the scene (the actual animation) paints Rem as if she were a Holy being during that exchange. |
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Mitrospeed
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There is actual an in-universe reason why it took him so long. At the beginning Subaru's compatibility with the witch's powers ( which is basically RBD ) was close to non existent. That's why his memories from previous lives weren't correctly projected into the current Subaru's mind. If you re-watch the ending of episode 1B you can actually see the previous lives flashing through Subaru's mind with a static/cloudy effect over it to imply this over which Subaru is seemingly confused. It is later that we find out how repeated dying and revealing RBD is enabling new possibilities towards Subaru regarding the witch's power and anything connected with it ( i.e Petelgeuse's Unseen Hands ). This is not something that should be neglected because it isn't a mere device to explain previous actions but a vital part of the story. So yeah it's simply a matter of looking at it in a retrospective way !
I completely understand that but what if a specific development or story event shines a completely new light on this scene? It's not uncommon that the story changes how a scene is perceived by revealing additional information or developing in a certain way later on  ?
Last edited by Mitrospeed on Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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prime_pm
 Posts: 2337 Location: Your Mother's Bedroom |
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Good lord, I'm not sure I can take another bite of increasing angst and depression from cartoon characters. I already just finished watching the latest season of Bojack Horseman!
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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I know the in-universe excuse, it just doesn't matter to me personally as a critic. It's a textual justification for a metatextual problem. "Subaru has a disorienting response to witch miasma" is a potentially interesting plot point, but it doesn't have to be demonstrated by having him take almost an hour of anime runtime to figure out what's happening (while the story around him grinds to a halt and starts indulging in redundancy), and it really shouldn't. Basically, the pacing doesn't suddenly become decent because there's an in-universe reason for it. Optimally, you'd find a way to convey those parts of the story without cutting the legs out from under the execution, especially this early on in the story. It's not a historical document, it's a work of fiction, so in-universe reasons for anything that can be changed at will to fit whatever the author wants to communicate and how they want to do it. This approach to criticism is explained really well in this four-minute video that calls the whole problem "The Thermian Argument." Now it uses examples of people using in-universe logic to justify things that are offensive/upsetting rather than just "annoying and poorly executed," but the principle is the same. In-universe excuses don't really matter to me when it comes to structural problems. |
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Pierrot.
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What? It's not an excuse but an important plot point for god's sake. |
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Mitrospeed
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Thanks for the elaborate answer! You're correct. I guess it felt shorter and better paced in the novels and with the knowledge of around 30 volumes worth of content you kinda loose the sense of time for some scenes. It simply feels so small and insignificant if you don't look at it separately. Guess my reader bias shone through, sorry :/! But yeah I gotta agree this chain of events without a real progress simply doesn't translate well into anime and should've been simplified even though them laying this out benefits some particular scenes later on, not a matter of this season though. Looking at it on the bright side, I think Watanabe will most likely take notes of this problem and improve himself in that regard. |
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killjoy_the
 Posts: 2460 |
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I kind of agree and disagree both. Subaru is definitely the best thing this show has, not because he's particularly good (I do find him okay, nowhere near bad), but because the show has absolutely nothing without him. As much as I've seen people complain about the worldbuilding, usually because there's too much of it, to me it's stuck in that awkward part where there's not enough to make the world any interesting. Apart from the character-study the show's doing (rather well) it has very little going for it. Emilia being replaced as the motherly-all-forgiving figure by Rem, the villains that keep somehow getting worse despite the second being literally just a hungry dog, and this new "yeah I can totally be the hero" approach Subaru's getting aren't making me very excited about the rest going forward.
I do, however, like a lot how the show goes exactly the opposite way of your usual death-then-return story like All You Need is Kill. But even then, it's entirely centered on how Subaru acts about it. It's all about that dude. He's an alright dude, don't get me wrong. Interesting. Would be nice if there was more to it though. |
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