Forum - View topicInterview: Welcome to the Ballroom's Tetsuya Kinoshita and Shimba Tsuchiya
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Mojave
 Posts: 178 |
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This is way past being simply unrealistic though. Imagine if you were watching a baseball anime, and all the players expressed the view that left-handed pitchers were an abomination and it showed everyone shunning left-handed pitchers. Not just one character, but all players, coaches, umps, and fans acted that way. And this isn't a show about an alternate universe form of baseball trying to make a hypothetical point, this is just a normal, run-of-the-mill baseball anime. That would be a completely pointless, show-ruining inaccuracy, and it would be hard not to wonder if the writers were trying to make a derogatory statement about left-handers. That's how egregious Welcome to the Ballroom's portrayal of gender dynamics in ballroom dance is. It's not a minor inaccuracy for the sake of drama, it's so astonishingly egregious that it ruins the show. Non-dancers could be forgiven for not realizing that, but it's so large of a departure from reality that it's impossible to ignore, just as the left-handers in baseball hypothetical I brought up would be. Partnership dynamics are so important in ballroom dance that any dancers displaying the attitudes that Gaju or Hyodo did would be physically incapable of dancing well with their partners. Hyodo or Gaju being the top-notch dancers they are depicted as being in the show is literally impossible with the attitudes about their partners they have. Minor inaccuracies are to be expected in most sports anime, but Welcome to the Ballroom is apparently banking on the fact that most of its audience has no familiarity with ballroom dance, in order to get away with massive, overly-egregious errors in their portrayal of the sport. |
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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Are there really people who expected Ballroom to be Fate levels of popular? Anyway, you're changing from well-recieved to popular. I said people like it in plenty of places, not that it was super popular. A show about ballroom dancing not doing as well as Fate or other big names is to be expected, but of those who are interested, they like it and its praised. This is the only site out of the ones I mentioned I see people trash on it for 'bad female characters'. Mako is hailed as a queen on those other sites everytime a new episode drops for the past few weeks and enjoy the show.
That wouldn't bother me at all,and Im ironically left handed who has to deal with things made for right handed people like controls in certain video games. That seems like an incredibly mundane thing to complain about compared to what I see in shows like Kuroko and PoT. I don't exactly watch sports anime for realism to begin with, which is why I don't watch real sports. |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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For starters, the first comment you quoted wasn't even about the "feminist" analysis on the show, I was commenting generally on the show's issues because the person I quoted said the criticism was pointless since the show had "good ratings", which is not the case, not in TV certainly, and not in ANN, and part of the issues that are keeping people from enjoying it (like the lack of actual animated dancing) have been brought up in "those other sites." Jacob also commented on an ANNCast that there were reddit forums where plenty of people seemed to be dissatisfied with the show, and Sakuga booru has commented on the production problems. Out of five reviews in MAL, two are negative criticism My point is it's not hitting the massive levels of success it was expected to. And you can't say they weren't expecting this one to be a big hit given the amount of promotion and hype Ponycan and Amazon gave it -they even made a cross-promo campaign with Attack on Titan of all things-, especially since it's coming out at the height of sports anime popularity. It was premiered at Anime Expo ffs, only the most hyped shows of the next three seasons got that treatment (Ancient Magus and Violet Evergarden). Ballroom was voted the most anticipated show in ANN before the season began (yes, even above Fate). And yet it's falling off the rankings, , you'll find quite a lot of people who are big fans of the manga commenting how the adaptation just isn't working. I'm not claiming "nobody likes the show", but to dismiss the criticism of the series "because it's only happening in one site" (it isn't) is intellectually dishonest, especially because it is evidently underperforming, both in the US and Japan. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I generally don't care about feminism issues and even I'm appalled by the derogatory and condescending way that Welcome to the Ballroom treats its female characters. I mean come on, after all these episodes Shizuku should be far more fleshed out as a character. And yet her role thus far has been limited to providing fanservice and being a trophy for various male characters to win and/or pass around, without consulting her feelings whatsoever. It's skeevy as all hell. |
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 2611 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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Yes, albeit not a ton. It's in volume two of the manga - right before the whole "challenge," she loudly tells Sengoku, "I'm done with Hyodo," and then says that she "might as well" dance with Gaju. Gaju himself comments that he had no idea how skilled a dancer Shizuku was as they're dancing together - that she can keep up with him even when he's improvising, implying that he's never had a partner of her level before, which in turn enables him to dance better. There's much more of a sense of partnership overall in the manga,and Shizuku herself not only has more lines, but more thought bubbles and non-verbal noises (i.e. "...") than she's given in the anime adaptation. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I've been doing this for around 17 years now. Asking a creative about their low sales is 1. needlessly insulting and 2. guaranteed to get you blacklisted from interviews with that company's talent for a long time. What are they supposed to say in response, anyway? "Yes, I'm disappointed, we're working our asses off on this and the sales aren't there." Are they supposed to apologize or something? Here's how the 'portrayal of women' question would've played out: I'd have asked "Have you read any of the criticism of your show and the way it portrays the gender balance in ballroom dancing? How do you respond to that criticism?" and the licensor would've asked me to omit that question. Had it gotten through, the answer would be first "are you aware that I am the producer of Welcome to the Ballroom, not the guy adapting scripts" and then "do you know we're adapting a manga?" and that would be that. Now, there are some instances where those kinds of questions are worth asking, but it's all about the circumstances - usually when you're talking to the screenwriter themselves, provided the screenwriter you're talking to is feeling canderous that day. I'd be comfortable asking, say, Shou Aikawa about something like this, for example, and he'd probably have a long answer for me - check out our upcoming interview with screenwriter Dai Sato for another example. It's not "unprofessional" to ask about cultural criticisms, but real opportunities to ask about them - in situations where you won't get shut down by the talent's handlers or the talent themselves - are rare, and you have to be smart about it. |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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Really? Which BL series are those? Considering how "many" there are, sounds like a pretty horrible problem that I've been lucky to almost entirely avoid. (It's ironic you're even bringing BL into this, frankly, when there's a BL manga about ballroom dancing that goes into the partnership between men and women when it comes to dance and how important it is for the male dancer to support his partner.) |
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Kocksmaw
Posts: 6 |
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I see you're a man of culture as well. Let me fanboy with you. Yes!!! Just a few more weeks! Until my fav and best girl is here!! |
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Kocksmaw
Posts: 6 |
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You're another man of culture I see. I have found more comrades!! |
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CrowLia
Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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Off the top of my head, this season's Hitorijime my Hero's first arc has two female characters who are nothing but nagging bitches pestering the MC to find out if the new hot guy has a girlfriend, reappearing every five minutes or so over the course of an episode to nag him and borderline bully him about it, insulting him and calling him useless. This kind of "love rival" characters are always portrayed like this, both in BL and hetero shojo romances, without ever giving them any character development beyond beint despicable and throwaway. BTW I assume the manga you're mentioning is 10 Dance, I actually love that manga and since I read it I always wanted to see an anime about ballroom dancing. Unfortunately, the heterosexual ballroom anime somehow manages to treat its females way worse than the one about a gay romance |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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You mean the same female character that has her own adorable subplot about how much she admires on Hasekura's older sister in the manga extras? Or was it about the sweet short haired girl that shared her sandwich with Setagawa when he didn't bring his own? Maybe you're referring to Hasekura's sister, who is close friends with Kousuke? BTW, yes, it was 10 Dance I was referring to. I definitely wish they had animated it except this series. EDIT: Sorry, that was needlessly combative of me. Hitorijime My Hero doesn't have a lot of women, but I don't think it does any of them badly for what they are. |
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CrowLia
Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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I have literally no idea who any of these characters are. Point is the one portrayal of these female characters in the anime is pretty par for the course of "bitches be crazy" trope which is extremely common in romance manga and does nothing but perpetuate negative stereotypes of women and pushing the agenda (in the case of shojo romance) that women are women's worst enemies or in the case of BL that women are just thirsty and shallow and naggy bitches |
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Mojave
Posts: 178 |
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So, you and I are on the same side of the issue when it comes to Welcome to the Ballroom's portrayal of women. I must say however, that comments like this are exactly why there are people on this thread claiming that ANN commentators are just being unreasonable. There is nothing wrong with Hitorijime My Hero's portrayal of women. It's okay to show a female character as nagging or as the real enemy of other women. It's only problematic if it portrays all its female characters as irredeemable, terrible people. Some women are naggy, many women are the biggest problem facing other women. You insisting that such reality not be portrayed is not a valid criticism of the show, it's just part of you inappropriately pushing an agenda on here. Not conforming to your agenda does not equal problematic. Crying wolf about things like Hitorijime My Hero is the whole reason some people don't accept it when there is an actual problem, like with Welcome to the Ballroom. If you want other commenters to take nuanced looks at a show, you have to be willing to do the same yourself. |
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CrowLia
Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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^I'm not saying female characters can't be portrayed in a negative light or that having "evil women" is per sé mysoginistic -for example Fujiko Mine is a morally ambiguous woman, but she's terrific as a female character, and there are quite a few fantastic female villains in the medium-. My problem -and I mentioned Hitorijime because it was really just off the top of my head- is the trope itself of the crazy bitch/love rival in both BL and shojo romance manga and how recurrent it is. And it can be harmful because it tends to portray all/most women as shallow and sleazy and never really develops them further, inviting the audience to wish they'd "get out of the way". And yes, it is just another way of understated mysoginy, except that instead of invisibilizing women -which is what Welcome to the Ballroom does- universally vilifies them (Hitorijime doesn't dwell on this a lot, mostly because female characters in that show are close to non-existent except for the mom whose only trait is being a bad cook and the teacher's friend who appears to say cryptic stuff every two or three episodes, neither is even close to a fully fleshed or realized character in any capacity).
But I digress, the point I was trying to make was "Just because it's written by a woman doesn't mean it can't be mysoginistic, women can be mysoginists too", in response to a previous post claiming the accusations against Ballroom were absurd because "it's written by a woman, how could it be sexist". |
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