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EP. REVIEW: O Maidens in Your Savage Season


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Sisyphusson66



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:52 pm Reply with quote
Panino Manino wrote:
And something that I can't accept if the gyaru getting pregnant.
The character that should know better about sex is the one that ends pregnant, really?


That bothered me too. Not so much that she got pregnant (you are right though, she would have known better, especially since she seemed to be smart and observant), but that it removed her from the show. She should have been the experienced one who Sonezaki could confide in about her own relationship and learn from. Instead, it feels like she was used as a means to an end, spoiler[if the manga is anything to go by].

Quote:
"So in a moment that's far crueler than anything else she's done thus far in terms of emotional damage, she gets in the last word – that if Izumi means what he's saying, he wouldn't have an erection."


What makes this moment even worse than it already was was the fact that she was smiling when she said it, which makes it look more vile.
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invalidname
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:25 pm Reply with quote
Also, another song by The Blue Hearts: "Chain Gang" plays from the karaoke club as Niina walks down the street and calls Momoko.
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DuskyPredator
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:34 pm Reply with quote
Sure gyaru should have known better, and it is maybe kind of dumb that she let that happen, but I am far less negative on it happening, especially if she gets to stay in the show, because I want Rika to go after her and keep the friendship. The teacher was pretty horrible in how he ruined the privacy of his student as to actually set her up as a bad example for the other students, no idea how things are in Japan for things like that, but it is not a very cool thing to do.

Gyaru (Osone) is going to be judged as a slut, who could not be responsible enough to do what good teenagers do, probably that she was loose with her morality, not respecting her body, and maybe being a shallow person. Wonder if even her friends will turn against her, because for all their closeness of trying to appear mature with sexually active, they don't want to be seen as problematic as a teenage high school drop out mother. I presume the school found her out and if not expelled she was pressured to drop out, because she probably could have still worked to graduate, right?

And the real journey for Rika, is that her experiences showed that Osone is not some trashy girl who is giving into shallowness and vulgarity. And there will probably be this role reversal, where before Rika would slut shame and judge all the other girls for the tiniest things, could stand by her friend that society itself would judge. I would like there to be a balance where without seeming to champion for teenage pregnancy, could show it is as not the end of the world for the girl who's love is more than something shallow of towards a guy who does not respect her.

And although it was a shitty thing for Niina to do to confuse Izumi by abusing things out of his control, a lack of understanding of the difference between attraction and love, because there is not a lot of control to not stop getting an erection. I still don't see it as ruining her character. It was shitty, but I don't think the smile she had was genuine as much as she has been totally messed up by other people like her abuser and was acting out of her own feelings of a lack of self worth, playing the part of a bitch that she was always accused of being. After that she literally started to go around areas to try and get people to catcall her, not because she actually likes that sort of thing, but that as a teenage girl she has self worth so fragile that being treated like she is special because she is attractive all her life has made her go into a spiral of losing that self worth from being rejected.

when confronted with Momo's confession to her, Niina only sees herself as a manipulator who maybe even looked down on her friend, all to seem more mature and ego boost herself. And I think that she is not being fair to herself, being in a depressed state for something fairly normal like teenagers trying to put on an airs, and sometimes doing something stupid because it made sense to you at the time, while you only did it with the intention of making yourself feel better, or hurt someone else. Maybe she didn't always have the nicest reasonings for things she did some times, but it is not like all her intentions were malicious, that she herself was damaged, and someone who was around her enough to general know her as a person could be genuinely attracted to her, while it not something she has to define their friendship with. It is interesting that Momo is the one who thinks that she messed things up in their relationship by confessing, while it is not at all what Niina is thinking.
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CrowLia



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:41 pm Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
Gyaru (Osone)


Just wanted to point out "Osone" is not that girl's name, her name is Jujo. "Osone" is how she refers to Sonezaki. Not sure if it's a wordgame (adding the O before Sone/zaki) or a gyaru slang, but just wanted to clarify that
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zrnzle500
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:31 pm Reply with quote
Panino Manino wrote:
But I have some difficulty in understanding some logic about this anime in general. The thing with Izumi for example, him feeling bad with what Niina did to him is understandable, but feeling guilty for Kasuza? For me makes no sense, after seeing he masturbating watching porno he should know better.


There's a difference between watching porn as a single person featuring people you will likely never meet or know personally and becoming involved with your significant other's friend. He takes his erection as an indication that he isn't as committed to his (new) girlfriend as he thought, both sexually and emotionally, that his eyes are wandering, prompted by Niina's gibe. Though, they are mistaking a physiological response for an emotional one, as Rebecca says in the review.
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Panino Manino



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:54 am Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:
Panino Manino wrote:
But I have some difficulty in understanding some logic about this anime in general. The thing with Izumi for example, him feeling bad with what Niina did to him is understandable, but feeling guilty for Kasuza? For me makes no sense, after seeing he masturbating watching porno he should know better.


There's a difference between watching porn as a single person featuring people you will likely never meet or know personally and becoming involved with your significant other's friend. He takes his erection as an indication that he isn't as committed to his (new) girlfriend as he thought, both sexually and emotionally, that his eyes are wandering, prompted by Niina's gibe. Though, they are mistaking a physiological response for an emotional one, as Rebecca says in the review.

Is that that I don't understand, the same way it's hard for me to accept seeing Jujo pregnant is to for Izumi be so shaken because if a common everyday erection.
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zrnzle500
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:07 pm Reply with quote
It’s not the erection per se, but the imputed attraction for someone he actually knows who isn’t his girlfriend (and his girlfriend’s friend at that). When he was single, it doesn’t really matter to him who that may be aimed at, but after he has made a commitment, especially shortly after he has, he doesn’t want to break that commitment, and with Niina implying that his erection meant he wanted to sleep with her, even though he has a girlfriend, he took it as an indication that he was being unfaithful to Kazusa - especially considering it came from someone he had previously confided in and who was the one among their friend group perceived as the most knowledgeable about relationships. As someone who had been a teenage boy, I’d say that just because you pleasure oneself doesn’t mean that you are very knowledgeable about such matters or even see erections as a mundane thing.

As to Jujo, while we can’t say for sure without hearing more about the specific circumstances, I don’t think it is so implausible that even someone like her would end up in that situation. From what I could tell, it seems people in Japan are fairly reliant on condoms for contraception, with oral contraceptives only legalized 20 years ago, so it doesn’t seem unlikely that someone who was sexually active would end up pregnant, even if they were taking the most used and well known precautions against it.
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lossthief



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:35 pm Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:


As to Jujo, while we can’t say for sure without hearing more about the specific circumstances, I don’t think it is so implausible that even someone like her would end up in that situation. From what I could tell, it seems people in Japan are fairly reliant on condoms for contraception, with oral contraceptives only legalized 20 years ago, so it doesn’t seem unlikely that someone who was sexually active would end up pregnant, even if they were taking the most used and well known precautions against it.


It's also worth remembering that, especially with teenagers, being sexually active doesn't necessarily mean being sexually informed. I have no idea what (if any) formal sex ed looks like in Japan, but having grown up in an state that only allows schools to teach abstinence as the only mention of contraception, I can totally buy that even somebody who seems "in the know" could make a mistake with it or end up believing a misconception about sex.
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zrnzle500
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:04 pm Reply with quote
lossthief wrote:
It's also worth remembering that, especially with teenagers, being sexually active doesn't necessarily mean being sexually informed. I have no idea what (if any) formal sex ed looks like in Japan, but having grown up in an state that only allows schools to teach abstinence as the only mention of contraception, I can totally buy that even somebody who seems "in the know" could make a mistake with it or end up believing a misconception about sex.


Yeah, considering how the teacher went out of his way to violate his student’s privacy to slut shame her, it doesn’t really speak to a sex ed system that is open to the fact that teenagers (a number of them at least) will have sex with each other, even if you tell them not to.
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Panino Manino



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:25 pm Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:
It’s not the erection per se, but the imputed attraction for someone he actually knows who isn’t his girlfriend (and his girlfriend’s friend at that). When he was single, it doesn’t really matter to him who that may be aimed at, but after he has made a commitment, especially shortly after he has, he doesn’t want to break that commitment, and with Niina implying that his erection meant he wanted to sleep with her, even though he has a girlfriend, he took it as an indication that he was being unfaithful to Kazusa - especially considering it came from someone he had previously confided in and who was the one among their friend group perceived as the most knowledgeable about relationships. As someone who had been a teenage boy, I’d say that just because you pleasure oneself doesn’t mean that you are very knowledgeable about such matters or even see erections as a mundane thing.

Remember when Izumi told Kasuza that he didn't felt sexual desire for her?
He knows the difference between love and lust.
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Agent355



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:58 am Reply with quote
Episode 10: Everybody needs a hug!


Panino Manino wrote:
Quote:
It gave us confirmation that neither she nor Milo-sensei was acting with any sort of actual desire, but instead out of anger, confusion, and self-loathing.

But doesn't Hongo says in her thoughts that along the way she developed a crush on him? After all that thinking and some physical contact that got her excited?
Isn't that a big factor in her frustration, feeling undesired by someone that she was desiring?

I feel that I disagree with Rebecca comparing him with Niina somehow.
I don't quite understand how have sex with Hongo would be the "easy thing to do". My impression is that he just isn't so preoccupied with sex, isn't the type to go for women just for sex, that's why he doesn't even get excited with Hongo practically raping him.

But I have some difficulty in understanding some logic about this anime in general. The thing with Izumi for example, him feeling bad with what Niina did to him is understandable, but feeling guilty for Kasuza? For me makes no sense, after seeing he masturbating watching porno he should know better.

Oh, that’s easy—Izumi feels bad that he sexually responded to Niina’s accosting him, but hasn’t been similarly aroused by Kazusa. I agree with Rebecca that Niina commenting on Izumi’s erection was especially cruel, and now while he likes Kazusa better as a person and friend, he’s rethinking his agreement to pursue a romantic relationship with her while not wanting to break her heart and lose her. Personally, I believe that sexual attraction can build between compatible individuals. Not all elements of a relationship are present at the start, but some couples build solid relationships with all the right elements slowly over time. If Niina hadn’t purposely aroused him and made him feel bad about it, his attraction to Kazusa might have developed gradually now that they’re starting to date, but now he’s preoccupied with his instant response to Niina and doubting his discussion to date Kazusa.

I have no idea how to make sense of the Hongo/Milo plot, though. From her perspective, it’s mostly “stupid kid wants to prove a point”—she admitted that it’s not about the crush anymore and more about his condescending attitude and her jealousy of the other teacher. From his perspective it’s...getting her off his back? Self-sabotaging his career? Thinking he’s not good enough for his perfectly available and age appropriate co-worker? IDK.

I did feel bad for Niina, but she’s hurting people, and sometimes you have to hit rock bottom to pull yourself up again. I hope this experience gets her to stop hurting people and finally forces her to think about what kinds of relationships she wants, rather than what kind of relationships other people think she should be having based on her looks.

Juju getting knocked up is so damn cliche, wow. So Sonezaki finally starts opening up to the possibility of sexuality and her new friend becomes a cautionary tale.
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MiloTheFirst



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:23 am Reply with quote
Quote:
It's going to force Sonezaki to rethink everything and to try and decide whether or not her friend deserves to be judged the way her homeroom teacher, who apparently knows nothing about respecting someone's privacy, is clearly judging her


and also

zrnzle500 wrote:
Yeah, considering how the teacher went out of his way to violate his student’s privacy to slut shame her, it doesn’t really speak to a sex ed system that is open to the fact that teenagers (a number of them at least) will have sex with each other, even if you tell them not to.


I think you guys are misrepresenting what just happened here, her homeroom teacher didn't slut shame her at all, he gave no opinion whatsoever about her sexual life. he is sharing this information as a cautionary tale, the moral is that once you get pregnant you have to start to work in order to feed yourself and your newborn child which would make pursuing further education thereafter extremely difficult thus the act of dropping out and by consequence cutting one's prospect for future careers. unlike America in most other parts of the world the custom isn't for the pregnant teen's parents to support her and her child while she finish her education, once a woman gets pregnant she and the father have to asume responsibility and take the steps to support their new child. maybe I understand this because it happened a couple times back then at my high school in south america. not giving my own opinion on that, just giving you a heads up about cultural differences. also, don't throw accusations of slut shaming so easily when a character didn't even give an opinion at all

also, if you cared to read the subtitles you would realize he said the whole faculty debated whether to tell the rest of the students, finally, if she and her family didn't want anyone to know they just didn't need to tell the school at all, she could have just dropped out without giving any explanation whatsoever (high school is not compulsory in japan, only up to middle school), according to what I know of ethics once someone willingly shares information with someone else and didn't demand for confidentiality prior to sharing, that information then becomes theirs to do so as they please. imagine this, if a friend told me he got fired, he might feel ashamed about his family or other acquaintances knowing, but once he told me, that is in itself a experience I had, it becomes knowledge that will live with me, and knowledge that goes through my mind is my own property, unless he asked me to keep it secret before letting me know then I should be entitled to do as I please with my new found knowledge.

Quote:
Milo-sensei calls himself a coward when Hongo asks why he doesn't want her, but the more cowardly decision would have been to sleep with her just because it was the easy thing to do and because it would give him false confidence.


I understood this situation very differently. Milo's plan (as he stated) was to break her pride so she would lose confidence and leave him alone, but once he saw her cry he felt compassionate and took an L telling her that it was him who was a coward (hurting his own pride by appearing weak and vulnerable to one of his students) so the experience wouldn't scar her self stem. as a result she hopefully gives up on him and the only loss for him would be one of his students he might never see after she graduates perhaps remembering him as stereotypically less masculine. a very kind thing to do imo
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DuskyPredator
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:23 am Reply with quote
@ MiloTheFirst
What do you think slut shaming is? Do you think that it is explicitly mentioning one's sex life? He didn't go something like "hope the rest of you know that you have to use a condom". He said that the faculity discussed it, and they decided to tell everyone that their classmate is not coming back because she is prego, so that she can be set as a bad example. Pretty clear the intention will have all her classmates talking about her appearance as a gyaru, and how she seemed open about some of her sexuality.

Clearly they just found out about her being pregnant, and was taken straight to the administration to have her removed from school immediately, not because of health but because it would be too shameful to have her continue to attend. She is in her last year, and they likely have months they could figure out how to have her graduate, and prepare for motherhood. If the school has any further reaction, my guess is that it is going to be to limit the interactions of boys and girls, not take some time aside to make sure they all know how to put a condom on and maybe hand some out. The same thing Rika acted up to now where she would mentally slut shame her more active classmates. The implication is that it is the sex itself is the problem, the thing that the good students should not do, that is the slut shaming.

And the thing is that those sorts of things are what creates weird complexes, not to mention that abstinence only is proven to simply be ineffective at stopping teen pregnancy and healthy understanding of your body and interaction with the opposite sex.
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Princess_Irene



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:42 am Reply with quote
MiloTheFirst wrote:
according to what I know of ethics once someone willingly shares information with someone else and didn't demand for confidentiality prior to sharing, that information then becomes theirs to do so as they please.


This may not be true in Japan, but in schools I've taught in (both high schools and universities), this would be private information about a student that no teacher or administrator would be allowed to share. Thus the teacher is explicitly breaking confidentiality by virtue of his position as a teacher.
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zrnzle500
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:53 pm Reply with quote
To add to what DuskyPredator said, just because he didn't explicitly mention her sex life or call her a slut or an equivalent term, doesn't mean that he wasn't trying to shame and judge her.

I think it would be useful to examine specifically what he said.

Quote:
We thought about keeping quiet about her reasons, but telling you might help you make better lifestyle choices, so here we go.


He is clearly giving the opinion that choosing the same lifestyle as Jujo is worse than choosing a different lifestyle. I would say that few would regard 'practicing safe sex' as a lifestyle choice, whereas 'being sexually active' would definitely be regarded as a lifestyle choice, so it seems most likely that he was judging her for doing the latter and not the former, especially without any mention of safe sex practices. The sense that his criticism is 'teenagers having sex?! Tsk Tsk' and not 'remember to use protection, kids' is further bolstered by this quote from the preview, as well as the next episode's title:

Quote:
Anyone engaging in inappropriate conduct will receive a swift and harsh punishment

Episode 11: Inappropriate Conduct Between the Sexes is Now Forbidden

We will see the full context of those quotes in the next episode, but it seems likely that they will limit interactions with the opposite sex, as DuskyPredator guessed.
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