Forum - View topicNEWS: Sentai Filmworks' GoFundMe Campaign for Kyoto Animation Surpasses US$2 Million, Kyoto Animatio
|
Goto page 1, 2 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Luigithemetal64
Posts: 17 |
|
|||
|
If Kyoto Animation is worried that the money we're donating to them is seen as tipping (which is never a thing in Japan), they can use it to help its survivors, get more people, rebuild the place with fire escapes, sprinklers, and master vaults, and give us anime in return. Even then, I'm starting to question on how they make decisions.
I don't hate them as a whole, but there are some we've been wondering about. How did the building passed the fire safety inspection? Shouldn't Japan be more techincally advanced and stricter than the US so they won't have to worry much about crimes and be prepared for it when the time comes? It's nice that they're planning a memorial, but how much would that cost including demolishing the first building? [Removed off-topic content] I give my heart to Kyoto Animation and to other people in the anime industry as I see foreign mediums as an art form and/or entertainment. [I removed off-topic and exceptionally insensitive material from this post. -t] |
||||
|
||||
Replica_Rabbit
 Posts: 354 Location: Portland |
|
|||
|
[removed reply and quote to the content removed from the first post above -t]
Anyway, I been waiting to donate on Sentai Filmworks' GoFundMe because I don't know how long would the money takes to get to the people who need it since it a large amount from a different country |
||||
|
||||
|
Luigithemetal64
Posts: 17 |
|
|||
While I have commented that the donation money can go to the victims so they can give us anime, it's also about what does the future hold for them. |
||||
|
||||
|
sputn1k
Posts: 52 |
|
|||
Donations have never been a big thing in Japan. This is mostly due to the fact that donations are not tax free or have a significantly lowered tax rate by Japanese law. There is also a sociocultural aspect that makes many Japanese people reluctant to accept money from others without giving anything in return that is of comparable value. Bribes have for example always been a serious issue in Japan, to the degree that people hide bribe money in other gifts, forcing the recipient to check gifts for hidden money, and return the gifts (plus the money) to the sender. Accepting bribes makes you potentially vulnerable to the sender or its agents, as they could leak information about that to the authorities about the money. |
||||
|
||||
yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
|
|||
|
Sentai posted this statement on its GoFundMe page a few moments ago:
|
||||
|
||||
Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10421 Location: Do not message me for support. |
|
|||
There's a long thread on Twitter about this, posted by a Fire safety expert. https://twitter.com/CasReadman/status/1153163341143138304 tl;dr version: "office fire safety measures are not calculated for fire bombing. Stop blaming it for the deaths."
I've removed the rest of your post because it is extremely, extremely, extremely inhumane of you to be criticizing KyoAni's animation choices in that way at this time. It's also completely off-topic, which is against out rules. -t |
||||
|
||||
|
Luigithemetal64
Posts: 17 |
|
|||
|
I have said I give my heart to KyoAni and other companies as I view foreign mediums as an art form and/or entertainment.
|
||||
|
||||
|
chronos02
Posts: 267 |
|
|||
|
It's quite heart warming to see so many people get together and try and help KyoAni after such a dreadful arson attack. More than $4M to help the families of the deceased, the injured and the studio as a whole, so that they can get back up on their feet.
It's really sad, however, that it is only during these dire times that we can see people helping each other even with continents and oceans apart, though I guess that the constant bickering and bitching between us is a sign of peace in some way... I really do hope they accept the whole amount, and if them being Japanese, with their culture, don't feel right accepting this much money, as a previous poster said before, what they should do is get back on their feet, get new people, fix everything they possibly can, and deliver what they do best. I'm quite sure they also feel the pressure from all of us, expecting them to recover to full power, and even if it's in the back of their minds, it can't be easy, combined with the aftermath. Now, those who keep thinking the studio didn't have good enough measures against fires... Those measures are in place to -prevent- an accidental fire from breaking out, as well as to mitigate the damage as much as possible so people can flee, but this only applies to normal fire, not fire with accelerants such as gas, kerosene or anything similar. Chemical fires do NOT have standard procedures to extinguish them, each type has a specific way to prevent and extinguish them, and it's -impossible- to create an environment where none of these can happen if they are caused by the hand of man. Yes, IMPOSSIBLE (many of the ways to extinguish these fires are mutually exclusive, what can stop one, will feed another). Blaming KyoAni for not having enough measures is absurd. Sprinklers are completely ineffective, fire retardants: useless, a good building layout: extremely limited help. Add to that that the 1st floor had an explosion, and from what has been disclosed, very likely caused by the leftover accelerant stored in a container. It's honestly quite surprising that half of the people inside the building managed to leave in time some way or another. Also, do note that gas can make a fire climb up to 1,500ºC of temperature, while normal fire only goes slightly above 1,000ºC, that extra 50% can cause iron, and even steel to melt, and the temperature goes up incredibly fast, it also spreads at a much higher rate. Thinking back, it's almost a miracle the building was still standing, honestly. Anyway, godspeed KyoAni, we will push you along the way until you can stand back up on your own. |
||||
|
||||
|
AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
|
|||
I didn't make that claim, but it is true that Japan is among the world leaders in many sorts of disaster-"proofing". As you mentioned they are very serious about earthquake safety, and their engineering has produced some of the world's best earthquake resistant buildings. The floodwater control system in Tokyo is a world-famous engineering masterpiece: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Area_Outer_Underground_Discharge_Channel I don't think too many places take flood control serious enough to install no less than seventy-two floodwater pumps powered by the same sort of jet turbine that flies on a 747. If that's not straight out of anime I don't know what is. In addition, Japan is world-famous for public works: it's train system including the famous Shinkansen, its power grid, and so on. I don't think it is unreasonable to say that Japan tends to meet engineering challenges head-on and is famous for effective solutions to those kinds of problems. Yet, for some reason, fire does not seem to be an area that gets that same sort of focus despite Japan's history of devastating fires. Yes, one can argue that buildings are not designed to survive an arson attack, but the fire code in this case was not just deficient, in my opinion, it was abysmal. A building containing more than 70 employees yet with only one exit? That wouldn't pass most country's fire codes in the 1950's let alone in modern day. I certain expect better from Japan, especially after various high-profile fires--some of which were suspected to be arson-related--and that spread in a similar manner with staircases not separated with fire door--along with a lack of emergency exits. For example the Shirokiya Department Store fire in the 1930's, the Sennichi Department Store & Taiyo Department Store buildings (both in the 1970's), and Myojo 56 building in 2001. |
||||
|
||||
|
AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
|
|||
Speaking as an engineer, this is disingenuous. 1) A type B rated fire extinguisher can and will put out a gasoline fire. These were not exotic chemicals or hazmat materials, this was a flammable hydrocarbon, which is exactly what a Class B rated extinguisher is for. Most residential and commercial extinguishers are rated for classes A, B, and C. (that is: wood/paper/etc, liquids, and electrical fires) For example, a UL rated 10B fire extinguisher is rated to repeatedly extinguish a pan 25 square feet in size containing 31 gallons of burning heptane. Heptane is a major constituent of gasoline, and is actually more volatile than its other major component (octane). A 10B rated extinguisher is not very large, being about 2.5 to 3 lbs. The larger extinguishers you usually see in buildings are rated to extinguish much larger volumes than that. 2) Sprinklers will not put out a gasoline fire, but they will cool it down and stop it spreading, reducing the harm. The gasoline itself would burn (assuming nobody used an extinguisher), but the papers, furniture, and misc. objects in the building would not burn because they would be soaking wet. There would still be a fire, but it would be a much smaller, less serious, one. 3) Staircases should be separated by fire doors. This prevents the staircase from acting like a chimney, helping to pull more air into the building to feed the fire, and allowing the toxic smoke to the upper floors. 4) Additional exits allow people to get out in case of a fire. No, this attack could not have been "stopped" by fire code. However, if the building was built to a better fire code the death toll would have been far lower. Note that the majority of the fatalities were on the upper floors. The risk to those peoples lives would have been greatly reduced if there was no spiral staircase (or it were separated with fire doors), as well as if there were fire escapes on the upper floors. Even an emergency exit on the first floor on the other side of the building from the main door would have saved lives. The problem here was very simple: The arsonist started the fire near the main door, and people were not able to get out without running through the fire, and the sprial staircase allowed the fire and the smoke to spread very fast. Those problems CAN be addressed with fire code.
Amen. Edit: Just to be extra-super-clear: I am not assinging any blame to KyoAni here. If there are any fingers to be pointed (and that is a big if), direct them at those responsible for determining the fire code--not those responsible for enforcing it, or KyoAni, who by all reports did exactly what they were required to do. Last edited by AkumaChef on Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:35 pm; edited 3 times in total |
||||
|
||||
nDroae
 Posts: 382 |
|
|||
|
"Sentai Filmworks (...) has not stated that it has assurance from Kyoto Animation that the company or its staff will accept the money."
Yesterday's statement to that effect from a lawyer representing KyoAni isn't good enough? animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=5179877#5179877 Twitter user @maximillianaire commented (link in post above), "Looks like the [Sentai GoFundMe] money is going to be dealt with by Cool Japan, a JP government agency known for mishandling their own budget and money... despite KyoAni allowing people to donate directly to them now domestically and overseas. ???" |
||||
|
||||
MarshalBanana
 Posts: 5323 |
|
|||
|
||||
|
||||
|
AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
|
|||
They could have gotten out of the building, if the building had emergency exits on the first floor and fire escapes on the upper floors. If the staircase was secured behind fire doors they would have had far more time to escape. The building was doomed the moment the fire was started, the people within it were not. It doesn't matter how a fire starts. Once it happens your goal is to get out of the building ASAP. That can't happen if the building has no exits. It can happen if the building has exits. And to add: Fire safety is not limited to just preventing fires. A huge component of it is what to do when a fire breaks out. Extinguishers are effective at putting out fires once they have started. Extinguishers need to be present, regularly inspected to make sure they work, easily accessible, and people should be trained in their use. Furthermore, building design has a huge impact on fire safety. Emergency exits are vital. So are escapes if the building has higher floors. HVAC systems should be designed so they do not act as chimneys to feed the fire and to allow smoke to spread. Spiral staircases are huge risks because they present a vertical hole through all the floors allowing smoke to spread fast; the chimney effect also feeds the fire. They are difficult to descend if you are in a rush and need to get out fast. Walkways need to be kept clear so that people have the room needed to get out fast. (edited because apparently I fail at spelling the word "people" correctly) Last edited by AkumaChef on Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
|
nDroae
Posts: 382 |
|
|||
|
Yeah. As this article reiterates, the slain include "19 people on the stairwell between the third floor and the rooftop," who were trying to get out to the roof. They couldn't go down, because the attacker had spread fuel all over the first floor stairwell. I read in another ANN thread (I expect this has been officially reported, but I haven't seen the article myself) that the door to the roof was locked and no one could open it, thus they were trapped. The roof obviously isn't necessarily a safe place during a fire, but in this case it looks like a much better place to be than trapped inside with the smoke.
|
||||
|
||||
tojikomori
 Posts: 71 Location: Minnesota |
|
|||
|
The rumor that the door was locked has been consistently and repeatedly contradicted, refuted, and debunked by actual news reports.
This article, for example, states directly that the door was not locked:
This article states that the door could be opened from the inside:
The rumor's sole basis was that an early report stated that the door "could be opened from the outside," and some people jumped to the wrong conclusion that it couldn't be opened (was locked) from the inside. It was not. The rumor is wrong. Please stop repeating it. |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group