Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: So I'm a Spider, So What?
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Nordhmmer
Posts: 1028 |
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The anime sets up another -possible- season with Ariel inviting them(White,Sophie,Mezz-itsit) to travel with her...so spoil tag  ?
But the labeling White with human terms such as "sociopath" or judging her morality is pretty moot without first understanding the author's twist when it comes to their Isekai MC's (White's) past & future self. The author is all about the human v non-human(including deities) point of views....the oh so many POVs. |
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Yuvelir
 Posts: 1565 |
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"The MC doesn't need to comply with human morality because the author has written the setting in such a way that they can get away with it" is a very old but very weak argument by itself. Like when people go "actually it's good that the MC has these slaves because in this world...".
Sometimes it's better to just admit that the character is/has done something awful. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5836 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Modern human morality vs past human morality. Yes, when viewed by modern moral sensibilities, everyone who ever existed in the past are evil human beings. If you want to view fictional worlds through the lens of modern culture it ain't going to look pretty. As the old saying goes, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". Unless you want to be fed to the lions. I understand that some fans like looking at anime through the lens of modern morality. I am in the other group, that doesn't. If it makes you happy, that's great. |
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Yuvelir
Posts: 1565 |
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This is a modern work written by someone who lives in a modern world.
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Nordhmmer
Posts: 1028 |
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By whose standards,has the MC done anything "awful"? Two main POVs- humans vs non-humans The MCs happen to be non-humans. |
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Cryten
 Posts: 987 |
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You both can be right. In fact the story includes both points of view in its writing. That Kumoko is a self interested chaotic force. She has reasons for each of her behaviours so I wouldnt call her evil in a cartoony sense. But she does wreak havoc just through her presence. Remember that each of the humans she kills are with reason. For attacking her and her home or for invading the people she was protecting.
The story was never a character story of high moral standing. In the opening act Kumoko is already eating her own kin as well as other foul poisonous stuff and creating large complex traps web and poison. Being hunted by humans for being a trap using spider and by monsters for a conveniently weak (not so much really) snack. She does what ever it takes to survive and then thrive. It was never a convenient story where one can enforce justice and peace like the heroes aspire to. The whole narrative lampoons that kind of idea as foolish. Yet it also shows how destructive Kumoko's strength is, by warping human society around her just by passing by a human settlement. The anime in a lot of ways reduces the impact of how destructive she can be. She cause mass migrations and depletions of monsters in the labyrinth, her mother blew a new entrance into the labyrinth chasing her, she destroyed a fort and severely curtailed the early plans of potimas by bringing them to light in front of the strongest powers of the world. My thoughts are simple on the matter, like it or not she is brutally savage, prideful, desperate and selfish. It would be foolish to think otherwise as her whole path reflects that. And she will do what it takes for survival, of her and of the world. A good highlight to her personality is that she decides to help the Sariellan Army because she feels responsible for Ohts using her as an excuse to go to war. (Even though they clearly where looking to invade anyway we find out from other perspectives). But she does not help the town being sacked after she returns. Both because it has already been mostly sacked already and because she feels she has nothing to do with it at this point (she clearly see's the human premeditation by sending a second force to destroy the town while the two armies fight). Instead she just protects her fellow reincarnation since she had already been saving her and hates the idea of her efforts going to waste. |
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MagicianMan
Posts: 120 |
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I don't believe a writer of a work of fiction is obligated to hold their setting to those values though. Or that a character not being virtuous and doing villainous things automatically disqualifies them from being likeable or enjoyable. You have shows like Overlord and Saga of Tanya the Evil. Both of these are isekai stories that have MCs who are amoral and villainous with no remorse, but people like and root for them anyway. I think the distinction between these stories and more poorly written examples is a matter of the narrative taking responsibility for its character's actions and being willing to show the harm they cause. Ainz is both a goofy dad and a lawful evil skeleton who will sentience thousands of people to death without remorse. The story never shies away from portraying the things he does as villainous. Kumoko is the same, she's a funny and quirky nerd and also someone who will put her own survival and goals above anything and anyone. And their stories never pretend otherwise. |
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4829 |
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Well said. I agree with both statements. And the author's origin certainly does not matter because this is a story. |
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Fluwm
 Posts: 890 |
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Not really. Both-siderism is a false moral equivalency. Let's look at a simple real-world application of moral scalability: Murder. Murder is evil, right? If you kill another human being, that'd be difficult to justify to most people. You'd have an easier time justifying yourself if you murdered a dog. If you murder an insect, you wouldn't even have to try to defend your actions. Go all the way down to microbial life--bacteria and viruses--and many would say that you're not just morally justified in killing them, but have a moral imperative to do so. If we were to apply a false moral equivalency to murder, we'd have to argue that all murder is always bad regardless of scale or context. This is kind of the bedrock of all moral dilemmas. [/i] |
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LastPage 3
Posts: 193 |
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One of the weird things about this show is it's binary grasp of morality. Ascribing to 21st century Japanese morality is bad, so everyone then defaults to dog eat dog morality instead, even though this world has at least a medieval level of society. Like Yuvelir said, it really reminds me of those isekai series where modern folks rush off to buy their slaves lickity split just because it's legal in this world. |
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JaffaOrange
 Posts: 251 |
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I mean, it all comes down to how the series uses its video game trappings. In a video game, it's ok for characters to mow down thousands of 'sentient' beings to get them level ups. Kumoko basically treats their new world as a video game and so initially we, the audience, also do. She may hesitate at killing humans at first but this isn't really compassion/empathy. It's more like the whims of gamer sparing or slaying their favourite NPCs. More context reveals why this original assumption is wrong to have but by this point the circumstances change and the story shifts away from Kumoko's body count to avoid uncomfortable questions.
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Cryten
Posts: 987 |
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I dont know if I would agree with saying she treats the world like a game. But Kumoko didn't live in medieval society in this world. In this world she is a monster of the labyrinth. And that very existence gives her an instant death sentence in all of the human world. What im trying nto say is that her year and a half in the labyrinth has shaped her a great deal. Both the skill system of this world and the harsh realities.
While I do agree the worlds "system" is very gamey, Kumoko consistently uses the system in place where she should loose 100% and turning every single advantage she can get inside and out of it. She consistently treats other creatures as either food or in response to how they treat her. |
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Minos_Kurumada
Posts: 1015 |
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Is there any non-spoiler reason of why the "Bad Guys" don't simply explain the situation to Shun and the others?
And why the heck Mercy grants Taboo? |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18200 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Mercy grants Taboo because it's effectively a Raise Dead, and that's not otherwise available in this setting. As for the first question, it's partly that they haven't had the opportunities (those in the elf village have been inaccessible and those deep in the human realms haven't been easy to get to) and partly that their leaders - i.e., Ariel and White - aren't the kinds to explain themselves to others. The battlefield seen in the late episodes is certainly too active to take time to explain anything. |
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Yuvelir
Posts: 1565 |
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Too busy to explain but not busy enough to keep from gloating and condescending.
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