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Echo_City wrote:

Did anyone else notice the hilarious irony in the subbed version of episode 6 wherein all of the Asian powers (used loosely) meet to discuss their mutual need to cast off the oppressive yoke of the Imperialist Western powers & return to their unique Asian cultures, yet the only common language that they have to communicate with is English?

Deliberate and rather sharp satire, I'm sure. A shame the dubbed version loses that angle by having everything in English to begin with.

Echo_City wrote:

The only one who spoke English with any degree of fluency was the man who portrayed India, though he lacked any Indian accent, which seemed an oversight in a show so devoted to historically accuracy to me.

Given India's close relationship with Britain (to put it one way) and depending on his background, this man could have studied in England and learned to suppress his accent due to linguistic prejudices, which would make his fundamentalist anti-Western stance even more funny.

Fronzel wrote:

Echo_City wrote:

Did anyone else notice the hilarious irony in the subbed version of episode 6 wherein all of the Asian powers (used loosely) meet to discuss their mutual need to cast off the oppressive yoke of the Imperialist Western powers & return to their unique Asian cultures, yet the only common language that they have to communicate with is English?

Deliberate and rather sharp satire, I'm sure. A shame the dubbed version loses that angle by having everything in English to begin with.

Fans criticize English dubs for having accents to begin with, let alone languages, instead want to be more like the Japanese who don't even try. Like that Indian guy with the Queen's English........ Laughing

Last edited by DangerMouse on Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:21 pm; edited 3 times in total

Thanks for the review! As someone who enjoyed this series I also thought in addition to the review Key's long post had a lot of really good points on the strengths and weaknesses of the show.

Since I liked the characters and their potential and as highlighted in the review the parts where the team felt like they grew as they either worked together combining their powers to accomplish a mission or conduct an investigation (and shared information through Yukina) were some of the best, within the "half-season" runtime, I really wish they had been given a full 26 to potentially address being able to delve in to all of them and give every member of the team a fully developed backstory which tends to be the kind of thing that's usually noticeable in the jump from 13 to 26.

Megiddo wrote:

Either don't look at the letter grade or just subtract a full point from each. That's how I've learned to deal with Key's reviews. I, personally, dropped this one after the first episode. I was super hyped to see how Japan would deal with a historical (and controversial) event and pretty much everything turned me off. The stupid super powers were probably the greatest reason for me to drop it. I just anticipated a more serious and real show and did not get that.

I liked the powers (not to mention coming off of the excellent DTB, more spy thriller + powers in a unique setting was quite appealing) and IMO the powers as evidenced in basically every episode were so toned down to the point where the show's atmosphere was still generally realistic and the historical events and "real" serious mood took precedence over the powers.

wandering-dreamer wrote:

I'll admit, I did like that A-1 tried to have the characters speak many different languages instead of having everyone speak Japanese all the time, a shame that apparently most of the accents were awful (I remember that scene with all the English and I thought it was okay, just funny how the Indian didn't sound Indian at all). Don't think I ever saw episode 14 but I do remember seeing episode 0 and wondering why this wasn't episode 1 and they cut the cat story instead. I know that a lot of people dropped the series after the cat story and, even though episode one was a nice, exciting start to the series, episode 0 just would've worked better. Guess I'm in the minority here since I liked the show and would love to have it on BR someday but oh well then. Razz

I loved the show too though it already had a head start with me with its kind of spy genre and the atmosphere especially of the way the night scenes were colored and the style of the action caught my eye right from the first episode. Yeah they weren't very good at the accents at all or English but I kind of really appreciated the language switching attempt due to the real flavor it added to the setting.

Agreed, it was good the way it was but having finally seen it on this BD I think episode 0 would have worked better for a lot of viewers as well, not to mention would have made for an excellent first two episode punch of the characters getting more familiar with each other and it's of course more straight forward, if less mysterious, introducing the characters during their very first encounter with each other.

You know, one of my beefs with this series that I never seem to see mentioned is that for a "super spy" of sorts, spoiler[Kazura] shifts allegiance back and forth at the drop of a hat. Quote him some Kipling and whoa, my whole world view is rocked. Better not send him to investigate a revolutionary movement, because he'll surely join it. If you sent him to investigate the local Amway franchise, he'd come back a week later trying to sell you this fantastic new soap and tooth paste he's discovered.

I loved working on this series, and I love the encode S23 did for this series (so this means, A) I am a fan subber, and B) I bought the bluray, yes people those do not conflict, and yes we have removed our NR torrents, we did it about 4 months ago).
I loved working on this show for a lot of the reasons key mentioned. it is also one of the things that made it so hard to work on (especially episode 7, which took everyone 2 months to do). the historical context and setting in this show is SPOT ON. however the ending also has some problems, not to mention the problems with the characters never really becoming more then talking heads other then really 3 people, btw I liked Feng Lan I can understand why people would find her annoying but I thought she acted as a good foil. another thing to note about the really bad English and Chinese, is that I took German in college, and one time when they spoke German in episode 4 I couldn't translate it and I took it to my profesorin and she could not understand what they where saying, and she lived in Germany for years. on to my one complaint about this series that no one has touch on yet... AOI'S english voice.....NO just NO... that is not what he is supposed to sound like, he is not shinji with a backbone or anyone remotely like him and that is what he sounds like in the english version. I know it is hard to capture 20's something slick type of characters but ocean group did it for NANA at least 5 times, S23 should be able to do it for one character. I understand not everyone will be a fit in a dub compared to the original, but you should try and get THE MAIN CHARCTER RIGHT! anyway although I normally prefer dubs (and yes I am a subber) go with the subbed track on this one.

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Sentai entirely sidesteps the problem by simply putting everything in English and, except for Luci Christian's corny rendition of Feng Lan, making no regular effort to accent anything.

I definitely think this was a smart move.

Echo_City wrote:

Did anyone else notice the hilarious irony in the subbed version of episode 6 wherein all of the Asian powers (used loosely) meet to discuss their mutual need to cast off the oppressive yoke of the Imperialist Western powers & return to their unique Asian cultures, yet the only common language that they have to communicate with is English?

And what should they have used instead? Hindi? Mandarin? Manchurian? Japanese? Cambodian? etc how would that have been any more realistic? I don't find it ironic because the Anglosphere already held enough influence at that time. In fact, they are meeting and have expressed some solidarity because of such Western imperialism in their homeland, so it acually makes more sense that they would be speaking English. Even in India, as told by an Indian colleague, the common language between educated people of different, and mostly or somewhat mutually unintelligible dialects, is actually English.

configspace wrote:

Quote:

Sentai entirely sidesteps the problem by simply putting everything in English and, except for Luci Christian's corny rendition of Feng Lan, making no regular effort to accent anything.

I definitely think this was a smart move.

I am sure the smarts move would have been to get the japanese only dub rather then the multilanguage dub that aired on tv. that way both dubs would not have the problem.

Echo_City wrote:

Did anyone else notice the hilarious irony in the subbed version of episode 6 wherein all of the Asian powers (used loosely) meet to discuss their mutual need to cast off the oppressive yoke of the Imperialist Western powers & return to their unique Asian cultures, yet the only common language that they have to communicate with is English?

And what should they have used instead? Hindi? Mandarin? Manchurian? Japanese? Cambodian? etc how would that have been any more realistic? I don't find it ironic because the Anglosphere already held enough influence at that time. In fact, they are meeting and have expressed some solidarity because of such Western imperialism in their homeland, so it acually makes more sense that they would be speaking English. Even in India, as told by an Indian colleague, the common language between educated people of different, and mostly or somewhat mutually unintelligible dialects, is actually English.

agreed, also it is smart they explained all the historical significance of many of the major events

I'm definitely in agreement that the dub's disregard for the foreign languages was for the better. Not even the Japanese could properly do them, and they should have an advantage here. (Then again, our Texas and California voice actors aren't quite adroit with Spanish.) When Sentai has tried to use unnatural language for the actors, bad things have resulted.

I recently watched a show by ADV/Sentai wherein all of the characters speak English in the dub, yet the show pretends that they are speaking Japanese, and it was a bit jarring. However, Hilary Haag was the one who said it, and she's beyond reproach Wink

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In fact, they are meeting and have expressed some solidarity because of such Western imperialism in their homeland, so it acually makes more sense that they would be speaking English.

It does make sense, and that is the source of the irony. To have any hope of uniting the Asiatic nations, it took the alleged oppression of Western powers, and despite allegedly being oppressed, the only language they could mutually use, despite all the Asian countries co-existing for centuries, was one imposed upon them by the "evil White Devil". Rolling Eyes

For similar reasons to why they used English, they could have used any number of languages, yet they did not. On that, were all of the nations present at the "rebellion summit" even colonized by English-speaking nations? England & America didn't have 'em all.

BTW, I found it hilarious that in Night Raid 1931 the task force remarks that Asian citizens are suffering under the purported tyranny of the White man, while conveniently avoiding mentioning that Asians were oppressing themselves long before, and after, the White man's "reign of terror" ended. If ending Asiatic suffering is a motivator for expelling the White man, it's a bogus one. I guess that's why it's called propaganda.

In retrospect I probably shouldn't have expected this forum to have any affinity for the irony I've pointed out as ANN is by and large a bastion of non-Japanese who devoutly love Japan. Not that there's much wrong with that, it's only something I know I will never understand. To illustrate, I wasn't moved to tears by Grave of the Fireflies Wink

Well, I love Japanese culture but I'm not blind to it's faults. Grave of the Fireflies made me sad because those poor kids were victims of circumstance. They weren't going out and oppressing people. To me, suffering is suffering, but I guess I'm weird that way.

Echo_City wrote:

In retrospect I probably shouldn't have expected this forum to have any affinity for the irony I've pointed out as ANN is by and large a bastion of non-Japanese who devoutly love Japan. Not that there's much wrong with that, it's only something I know I will never understand. To illustrate, I wasn't moved to tears by Grave of the Fireflies Wink

You're aware we weren't literally at war with the entire Japanese race and the point was not to extinguish their race, right? And that you should have compassion for the suffering of innocent people?

Yikes, man.

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You're aware we weren't literally at war with the entire Japanese race and the point was not to extinguish their race, right?

Yes I am. Who said anything about this? I don't believe that I did. Though as I've heard history it seems that the Japanese wouldn't have been adverse to wiping our "gutter race" off of the Earth, and there were a few powerful Americans who espoused the reverse of that idea during the war years. Though the movie wasn't about America's quest for all-out genocide, at least, not the movie I saw, which was about a strategic American military attack and then the ensuing horror inflicted upon Asians by fellow Asians.

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And that you should have compassion for the suffering of innocent people?

Why do you assume that I have no "compassion for the suffering of innocent people" simply because I did not moved to tears by the movie? Just because I didn't break down & weep doesn't mean that I lack compassion. Compassion & composure are not mutually exclusive.

I'm not sure how I can be expected to automatically sympathize with the plight of Japanese children during World War 2 when the Japanese themselves were causing the undue suffering of many more children. Do the peoples that the Japanese oppressed in the Asiatic countries they occupied during the war just get swept under the rug? China and the Philippines (to name a few) could have made a similar movie to Grave of the Fireflies, only substituting their people in as the oppressed and the Japanese could have taken the role of America.

But we digress Very Happy

I believe we were talking about a rather average show released by Sentai which I'm slowly working my way through my blu-ray of. I'm pained for while I want to support Sentai & the anime industry as a whole (and do), Night Raid 1931 is not worth what I paid for it based on its merits alone Crying or Very sad

Echo_City wrote:

Quote:

In fact, they are meeting and have expressed some solidarity because of such Western imperialism in their homeland, so it acually makes more sense that they would be speaking English.

It does make sense, and that is the source of the irony. To have any hope of uniting the Asiatic nations, it took the alleged oppression of Western powers, and despite allegedly being oppressed, the only language they could mutually use, despite all the Asian countries co-existing for centuries, was one imposed upon them by the "evil White Devil". Rolling Eyes

For similar reasons to why they used English, they could have used any number of languages, yet they did not.

sigh.. no they could not, hence, not ironic. Previously they were as you mentioned, co-existing, but tenuously, in conflict, NOT united, NOT being forced to deal with a common foreign language (English, some French in Indochina, and Dutch if you go far back).

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BTW, I found it hilarious that in Night Raid 1931 the task force remarks that Asian citizens are suffering under the purported tyranny of the White man, while conveniently avoiding mentioning that Asians were oppressing themselves long before, and after, the White man's "reign of terror" ended. If ending Asiatic suffering is a motivator for expelling the White man, it's a bogus one. I guess that's why it's called propaganda.

Did you even watched the show? The many conflicts that arises are hardly pinned on just "the white man" at all. In fact a good deal is spent on tensions between Japanese powers and regular settlers in China, the shows own acknowledgment of oppression as perceived by the locals, the struggle for Manchurian independence, etc. The European powers is just a political backdrop, a pretense being used as fear tactic by one faction (the brother and the only "true believer" spoiler[who has seen the future, with the nuke]) So if anything, the show is never black and white; very grey politically and morally, even the protagonists' own nationalistic Japanese agency spoiler[turn out to be not such good guys after all]. Unless you have one big chip on your very proud shoulder I don't know how anyone can be hung up on just a plot device, certainly not what it's trying to preach.

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In retrospect I probably shouldn't have expected this forum to have any affinity for the irony I've pointed out as ANN is by and large a bastion of non-Japanese who devoutly love Japan. Not that there's much wrong with that, it's only something I know I will never understand. To illustrate, I wasn't moved to tears by Grave of the Fireflies Wink

would you like a cookie?

In any case, about the show itself, I thought the premise and plot was interesting, but the execution was poor. I had no problems with the psionic powers since we're talking about alternate history here. Retelling history in any other more "realistic" way would require just as much suspension of disbelief if not more so. It was enjoyable enough (save for the small fillers) but not compelling, likely due to many characters, not enough development or drama between them and ended rather anticlimactically

Echo_City wrote:

I'm not sure how I can be expected to automatically sympathize with the plight of Japanese children during World War 2 when the Japanese themselves were causing the undue suffering of many more children.

Simply because it's not the children who caused the suffering and they weren't responsible for what the army and the government did.
I agree with you that there are always different sides to a war, but things aren't as black and white. On each side there are those who make others suffer (and they don't necessarily limit themselves only to "the enemy") and those who have to suffer.

Btw, in Japan they just aired a documentary-like live action show based on the true story of two brothers during WWII, of whom one is an American soldier and the other one fights for the Japanese army. It was interesting.

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Did you even watched the show?

I am indeed watching the show, how else would I have gotten to the point where the leader of the group of protagonists mentions the plight of the Asians under the heel of the White despots? If memory serves it was back in the episode where the Teleporter & the Telekinetic are meeting their leader in a docked boat in order to discuss their progress in finding the rebel meeting, foolishly keeping this quest secret from the other 2 team members, members who could have made the quest much easier, based on an assumption. I'm trying to avoid spoilers as much as possible here. I mention this scene as I do not believe that you remember it, a belief corroborated by your argument, specifically its grand scope. In this scene the leader of the group uses the "suffering under the White man" device to ensure that the Telekinetic & Teleporter stay committed to his goals. My comment was explicitly about one line from the show, and that one scene, but you have mistakenly applied my sentiment about that one line to the whole show, and argued as such. You're fighting a fight that isn't there. Confused

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sigh.. no they could not, hence, not ironic. Previously they were as you mentioned, co-existing, but tenuously, in conflict, NOT united, NOT being forced to deal with a common foreign language (English, some French in Indochina, and Dutch if you go far back).

Again, the irony stems from the claims made in the rhetoric of the characters during the meeting. They keep trying to ram home the point that they're shirking the yolk of the imposed White culture, and that they don't want it, yet they're using it. It is the lynchpin of their ability to function as a coherent unit. That they had no other choice, you assert, for a mutual language is not germane to the issue of irony in the scene. Having no alternatives to an action does not nullify the irony that action might cause. They say they despise their forced Western culture, they say they don't want it, yet they espouse it. That's irony (hypocrisy). Wink

hmm don't if this is good anime or it's just trying to be something its not.

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