Forum - View topicOEL manga jumping the shark
|
Goto page Previous Next |
| Author | Message | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
KyuuA4
 Posts: 1361 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
|
|||||||
Yes. I know you did. 
And I was commenting on how skeptics make the job of an OEL Manga creator more difficult than it already is. Then again, this attitude does reflect the consumer attitude which says -- "We would only buy the best". Would you buy an OEL Manga? I wouldn't. Not yet. Why? Because none have been up to par with the best manga.
Yes, yes. That's yours... and probably several ten (hundred) thousand others too. I used to think that myself -- but no... not anymore. Ever seen the book, Manga without Borders? All it is -- it's a picture book with a collection of selected drawings of manga-style drawings of artists across the world. With the exception of 2-3 submissions, they look like authentic manga drawings. If only they could get this stuff into a story -- but they're just drawings. However, the best ones were very very impressive; they're to the point where you cannot tell who made it -- unless someone told you. If only I have the book - then I can quote the opening passage before the first drawing. It was by Takao Saito, maker of Golgo 13. If I were to rephrase it, it went along with encouranging the spread of manga art outside Japan in order to incorporate local flavor into it. In doing so, it would be possible to see brand new manga works the likes none of us have seen before. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
|
|||||||
I think that they should have their own term because when someone says comic I think either something like Superman or For Better or Worse, not OEL manga. As I said, for me manga is more a style than a culture, which is why I'm perfectly happy with the term OEL manga, especially since the OEL part clearly shows that it's not from Japan. Graphic novel would work just as well, but that's not what they picked and I'd say the stuff I've seen has more in common stylistically with manga than with other "graphic novels" such as say Maus. In the end though, it's just a label. It doesn't change anything. We could call them muffins and they'd still be the same thing and I'm sure there would still be someone to complain about it. I will agree that trying to set something in a culture you are unfamiliar with is a bad move though. If it's not your own culture, then research is your friend. But OEL manga has the advantage that is can be set in North American culture and thus has no need to explanation notes which, while I do appreciate them and enjoy learning about Japanese culture, can get tedious at times. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Not a Jellyfish
 Posts: 539 Location: Boston, MA |
|
|||||||
You win, I'm calling them Muffins from now on.  
I guess that's a good point, too. I suppose it shouldn't really matter what they are called. Although, usually, when I think of something like For Better or Worse, I think comic strip, not comic. And while Dramacon (for lack of a better example) may not be like Maus or Batman, I can't say I think it's really like Adolf or Berserk, either. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
jgreen
 Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
|
|||||||
Not true! I would highly recommend any skeptic pick up.... - Gold Digger by Fred Perry - Anything by Adam Warren (esp. his Dirty Pair...his new book Empowered looks great, too) - Cathedral Child by Lea Hernandez - Battle Chasers by Joe Madureira et. al. One of the best examples of the potential of OEL manga (and one of the few instances where I think the label IS appropriate) is the Tokyopop series Boys of Summer (one vol. available so far). It's written by an American writer (Chuck Austen, of X-Men and Superman fame/infamy) and drawn by a Japanese artist (Hiroshi Otsuka, I believe his name is). It's a uniquely American story that is set in American but told using Japanese techniques, and it's a great marriage of the two styles....if you like fanservice-y harem books, anyway.
Seen it in the store, yes, but never flipped through it.
That may have been true once, but I think the blockbuster success of movies based on "comic books" like V For Vendetta, Sin City, and 300 has pretty much shot gigantic holes in the prevailing wisdom that that's what "comics" are. But yes, to be more specific, they are "graphic novels," or even more specifically "original graphic novels." With a term in English that already defines EXACTLY what an OEL manga is, why use the term "OEL manga" at all, unless it's to hop on a bandwagon?
I think I'd rather have a muffin than most OEL manga. 
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
Asako
 Posts: 751 Location: Hawaii |
|
|||||||
|
Should I even mention Marvel's Mangaverse?
 it was interesting for what it was. I still thought of it as a comic. Ben Dunn has been in that manga-like artwork for a relatively long time. But I still think of his works as comics. (Ninja High School, etc.)
I agree with jgreen  I don't think I have anything to say against it at all.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
mistress_reebi
Posts: 735 Location: Canada |
|
|||||||
|
I heard Bizenghast is a good OEL graphic novel. If they marketed them as comic books I would buy more of them.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Patachu
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 1325 Location: San Diego |
|
|||||||
|
I would like to apologize to Viga_of_stars for calling this thread retarded. Actually, her question was a legitimate one, and led to a decent discussion, but it was quickly overtaken by threadcrappers who decided, Let's Have Another Pointlessly Fussy Debate About What Things Are Called! Which I think was the real cause of retardation around here. I mean, what kind of ANN is this where people can say complete nonsensical bullshit and not get banned:
Okay, so let's say my older cousin, who's a professional restauranteur, puts a slice of raw fish on a slab of rice, and wraps it with seaweed, are you going to tell me he didn't make "sushi" because he's a Filipino guy living in America and "sushi" is a Japanese word? Then what the hell is it? a RAW FISH WRAP? No, I go down to the Asiantown district of my city any day of the goddamn week, IN AMERICA, and I can walk into a "Japanese" restaurant, IN AMERICA, and I can order a plate of motherf'ing SUSHI because it is not called a RAW FISH WRAP, or a SUSHI-INFLUENCED SEAFOOD DISH, or an ORIGINAL AMERICAN-MADE FISH THINGY, it is a goddamn piece of SUSHI, and I'll be damned if you tell me I can't order a "sushi" IN AMERICA just because "sushi" is a Japanese word, and even if the "proper definition" of sushi means "a seafood dish FROM JAPAN," that sure as hell doesn't stop peope OUTSIDE of Japan from making SUSHI, does it? There are plenty of reasons to say that OEL isn't "real manga," but "manga is a Japanese word" is NOT one of them.
So "marketing" and "labeling" is more important to you than whether it's good or not? Ugh, people like you are the reason for terrible and embarrassing advertisments in all media. P.S. Bizenghast sucks ass, anyway. I've read it. P.P.S. It IS marketed as a comic book. They put it in the COMIC section of the store, of which "manga" is merely a subset. DERRRR! So, once again, Viga_of_stars, please accept my apology for your thread turning into shark-jumping crapfest. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Asako
Posts: 751 Location: Hawaii |
|
|||||||
Sushi is not a seafood dish from japan, it's mixed rice. Typically rice mixed with vinegar. The fish is stuff added to it. But also there's vegetables, etc. I agree that just because sushi is a word from Japan it is not the real definition of sushi as a food product. It's generally accepted that food made in a "particular" way will become that type of cuisine. So what is the definition of manga. Determining that will determine if OEL is manga or not. I guess that's where the fights over definition came from. Though I can understand the frustration 
I think a closer comparison would be a "home cooked" meal. Is it something that's cooked at home or something that resembles something that could be cooked at home?
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
digitalkikka
 Posts: 462 Location: Chicago, Illinois |
|
|||||||
I don't recall a discussion, but I'll apologize that my first response jumped right into the name debate.
Agreed. I decided to wander over to the graphic novel section of my local library today to try some OEL and I picked this up. Yeah...it was pretty bad. I'm sure M. Alice LeGrow has artistic talent, but Bizenghast is a poor example of it. What a mess  Although it was better then A Midnight Opera... but that's not saying a lot.
Well, at both my local Borders as well as Barnes & Noble, there are two distinct sections in which to find graphic novels. One is 'MANGA' and the other is 'COMICS'. Guess where they put the OEL? In the 'MANGA' section. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Dranxis
 Posts: 591 Location: Ohtori Academy |
|
|||||||
|
The only thing I dislike about the term OEL manga is the fact that it seems like an attempt to differentiate anime-style American comics from regular comics, like there's some sort of stigma attached to the phrase "comic." Seriously, I don't get what's wrong with calling it a "comic." In fact, I don't see what's wrong with calling it ANYTHING as long as people know what you're talking about.
Geez, it's just nomenclature, people. Why does every discussion about OEL manga have to degenerate into terminology wars rather than an assessment of the emerging market itself? I personally believe that, given time to grow, OEL manga will turn out some decent works. It's just that right now, alot of publishers just don't know what they're looking for in a good comic. I see alot of creative, imaginative stories with no narrative skill to speak of, I see bad artwork and generic stories... I don't think the publishers are being hard enough in terms of editing because they just don't know what's going to sell. I'd say just be patient, talent is bound to start cropping up somewhere. There are some good ones already if you look for them. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
frentymon
Forums Superstar
 Posts: 2362 Location: San Francisco |
|
|||||||
The person who coined the term is hanging out right here in this very thread.
Or at least I think it was him. [EDIT] Quotefix. Last edited by frentymon on Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Kouji
 Posts: 978 |
|
|||||||
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Asako
Posts: 751 Location: Hawaii |
|
|||||||
How did you come to terms with the validity?
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
|
|||||||
|
To break away from the name debate that can go in circles forever...has anyone read the Degrassi books? If you haven't read them, then you really can't tell if they suck or not.
I don't really follow the tv series (I'm an first generation Degrassi fan myself really) so I'm not sure if I would really be able to fully appreciate them, but I don't see why it's so horrible. I'd rather Degrassi be the show to branch out into manga than most of the other things on TV right now. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Kouji
Posts: 978 |
|
|||||||
Manga has come a long way since these days and the stories now told in those "whimsical pictures" cover an extremely broad range of topics, from adventure and sports to fantasy, love stories, science fiction, politics... anything. In Japan the word manga refers to all forms of comics, be they Japanese, European or American. But in Europe and America the word manga is used to refer specifically to Japanese comics.' To verify this further, I have seen a behind the scenes special about Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon where they are talking about the history of the manga and they specifically refer to the Sailor Moon manga as "comics" in plain English. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group