Forum - View topicRe: Nudity in Elfen Lied
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daedelus
 Posts: 743 Location: Texas City, TX (ajd: 6/11/05) |
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Omar pretty much got it right.
The "science guy", whose name is Kurama,spoiler[was infected by one of Number 3's vectors. He later impregnated his wife who subsequently gave birth to a diclonius child. Just after infecting Kurama, Number 3 was shot in the head and killed by another scientist with a high-powered assault rifle.] Since it seems I kinda diverted OT. I will say that seeing Nana naked and in chains was neither pleasing or arousing. While other nudity was fanservice, Nana's nudity was more "storyservice"(to coin a term  ).
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omar235
 Posts: 1572 Location: Florida, Jacksonvile |
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Hahaha I knew it!!! everytime I tried to think of the "science guys" name an image of Hei kept poping up. Eh, yeah I worded that wrong...he didn't give birth, his wife did.  Hm so it was a high powered rifle that the girl who messed with Kurama's sperm got shot with...don't know why I was thinking about a pistol. As you guys can see much of my memory of the exact events got jumbled.  Eh oh well...with all these events clarified the whole show is coming back to me. And really I can't say there were any moments that were arousing to me, even the ones that were meant to be fanservice. I just kept thinking back to all that gore and pain the girls went through...and since I am not a gur...guro fan (I caught it this time abunai )...
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Ramadahl
Posts: 325 Location: MK, UK |
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Heh, don't worry, we're pretty much done now .
Personally, at the end of the episodes I was thinking "well, that was a little disappointing... but everyone seems to say it's great, so maybe it'll get good next epsiode..." right up til near the end, and it never materialised with me. Still, saying that maybe people formed a static opinion based on the first few episodes before the more dramatic elements became significant seems reasonable enough. |
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Vader
Posts: 4 |
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The nudity was for the most part completely unnecessary. But it was not such an issue for me.
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dizzon
 Posts: 338 |
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Two things bugged me about elfen lied, and nudity wasn't one of them. Now I only watched it once and maybe I missed something.
spoiler[But weren't Kohta and Yuka cousins? If so then why was Yuka so hot for his goods . And second, Kohta is in love with the girl that decapitates his dad and severs his little sister at the waist on a train and right in front of him!?! That's messed up.]
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Ryuk1138
 Posts: 7 |
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This thread cracks me up. Elfen Lied and Ninja Scroll were the first anime I watched that had nudity in it and I watched them when I still only 15 or 16. I was affected by it a lot more than it should have; it was a distraction. I mean, I was still in that curious age group so I got a little over-excited. I can watch the show now from an adult point of view and enjoy the story and characters so the nudity does not bother me, but when I was younger my focus was not where it should be. How I feel is the nudity is not necessary rather it can be a distraction.
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Yes. Although, (I'm not sure about Japanese, but in English) cousin is a pretty ambiguous word. It doesn't specify the distance of the relationship, and doesn't necessarily have to even be a relative, just someone close to the family. Of course, the most common usage is as first cousin, and that is probably how it is intended, but it's not as much of a taboo in Japan as in the U.S.
spoiler[He's not in love with her, but he still cares about her. It's a subtle distinction, but an important one. I'm pretty sure after he remembers who she is, he even tells her he can never forgive her for what she did.] |
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dizzon
Posts: 338 |
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Well like I said in my earlier post I did only watch it once, so I forgot or didn't hear the whole spoiler[I can never forgive you part.] I just reacted to the scene the way I would have -- which is not even coming close to how Kohta reacted! And as far as the wholespoiler[Kohta and Yuka being cousins thing goes. How did you interpret it? Should I assume they are just family freinds? ] Because after your description of how the Japanese define cousin relations(and I mean the whole not being a taboo part)  . Could that alternative be accurate? Sorry to ask so many ?? But you seem to know more about this than I do.
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sanbyaku
 Posts: 34 Location: london, england, uk |
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if your that bothered by nudity in media then dont watch it. I can see a very definitive distinction between fanservice and what was portrayed in elfen lied. If you cant tell the difference then get some more experience with both materials. Even though the anime has a 15 rating (at least in the UK) some 15 year olds may not be mature enough to get past the nudity issue, i would have set it at 18 but since its an anime...... you get all the "cartoons 4 kidz" bu*lsh*t.
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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To my knowledge it only just avoided an 18 rating. The money-grabbing chaps at the BBFC were not so lenient on Gantz though. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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The word used was 従弟 / 従姉 (itoko, "male / female cousin"). This can be any degree of consanguinity from first cousin out to the remoter degrees, though first cousin (as in English) is usually the implied degree. As I understood it, Kōta and Yuka were first cousins. And no, Japan has neither law nor taboo forbidding romantic relationships between cousins. In fact, most countries of the world don't have such laws or taboos. Many cultures have (or used to have) a practice/tradition of cousin-marriage -- to the extent that this is still used, it is usually to ensure that family property remains concentrated in the family's hands. As for the nudity... don't like it? Don't watch it. Not all of us are uptight about seeing the human body. - abunai I'm going to be nice and overlook the one-liner necropost that brought this thread bubbling back to the surface after more than half a year in the depths, because the following posts were intelligent enough. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Whoa. Serious necro-posting.
Unless I'm mistaken, I assume that these statements are aimed at myself, as well as those who think of the nudity in Elfen Lied as fanservice? I don't care about nudity in media, nor am I as prudish as you want to believe. Look through My Anime and Manga lists, and you can easily see that. I'm objecting to fans saying that Elfen Lied doesn't have fanservice. It's either immense fan-pandering or one of the most overlooked parodies of harem and violence in Japanese animation -- for a thorough explanation of the latter, read this AoD thread.
I've seen enough to tell the difference, and there isn't any here. Also, emotional vicariousness is not to be mistaken for thematic depth, nor are obnoxious allusions (something Mamoru Oshii and Dai Sato need to take to heart). |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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I believe it is neither fan-pandering nor parody. So far as I can determine, most (if not all) the episodes of nudity that occur in Elfen Lied are relevant to the storyline. The nudity of the diclonius in the beginning of the series is clearly intended to represent their dehumanised state. They are not given clothes, because they are not regarded as persons. While there is more nudity in the series than this, it tends to occur in a context where it has a definite reason for being there. As such, I cannot regard more than a few instances as fanservice. Overall, despite the nudity, there is far less fanservice in Elfen Lied than in most anime. As for the violence -- I find it to be a violent series, but the violence isn't gratuitous, mostly. It serves a storytelling purpose, and while one may or may not like the story being told, the violence is part and parcel of it. Again -- don't like it, don't watch it. - abunai |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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To that end, though, anything can be defended by having a purpose within the story. It reminds me of the argument given for Kodomo no Jikan. (For the record, I don't have an ethical objection to that series, so I'm not "uncomfortable with the story." I just find it annoyingly by-the-numbers and melodramatic.) Goodpenguin gives a rebuttal to this notion here more eloquently than I can. While obviously not material that a detractor can skew into catering to lolicon, all of the Diclonius shown in such positions are young females. We're treated to panning over their bodies. I just find it peculiar that we'd have such direction, even though such ideas can be conveyed through less vicarious means. Throw that in with the obvious bits meant to induce a sense of moe -- not all fanservice is sexual, after all -- and I remain skeptical. I'm not surprised that my suggestions are of an unpopular; it's just that I can't really take the series anymore seriously than I can a daytime soap opera. I believe the story Elfen Lied fans see is very much worth telling and would be interested in seeing it; however, be it the fanservice, the thinness of the "themes" or the tragedy porn elements, I just cannot see it here. |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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All the arguments that you raise (melodrama, shallowness, formulaic storyline) are characteristic of anime in general (with very few exceptions). This is television, for heaven's sake. What did you expect, Citizen Kane? Plumbing the depths of this old thread, I believe selenta already rebutted these points of yours, so it seem somewhat superfluous to go through them again. Frankly, I think you're taking the matter far too personally -- from the tenor of your posts, it would seem that you feel personally affronted by the concept that an anime could possibly be melodramatic. - abunai |
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