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Zac wrote:

Anyone else sick of the instant negative reaction EVERY live-action project gets?
Do those of you who immediately leap onto the forums to proclaim how upset and disappointed you are that something is being adapted into live-action ever get tired of being so negative and lazy in your cynicism?

Maybe when a _good_ American-movie-based-on-an-anime gets made, I'll share your feelings:
The Guyver
Fist of the North Star
G-Saviour
... all not very good. (To be polite about it.)
Plus, you have to expect the name "Robotech" alone is going to be a lightning rod of negativity for some people.

Top Gun with mecha, drama, and some cool aliens (Or Star Wars with transformable mecha). How does that not scream American Popcorn Movie?

I am tired of initial bellyaching as well, but to be fair everyone has the right to an opinion. I actually would want Carl Macek involved in this if possible as a consultant since he did come up with a lot of the characterization and localized feel for Robotech.

And just for the record haters, Robotech is NOT a hack job. Edited for tv (lightly compared to some like Starblazers and Battle of the Planets I might add) maybe, but a hack job? The dubbed version of the Macross Saga in Robotech is very accurate to the original save a few unifying points that Carl Macek came up with (Robotechnology, Protoculture being a fuel source rather than an ancient race, some character name changes ala Kakizaki to Ben, et al.)

Please remember your talking about one of the founding series that allowed almost all of us to BECOME anime fans. I think it's even safe to say if Robotech had not existed, than ANN wouldn't exist for you all to make your opinions known on (which are still just as valid as mine if a bit negative).

I think Toby would make a great Rick Hunter, but I would have to see how he handles it. Also just because Toby owns the studio does not mean he will have his hands directly in the production. Films in Pre-Production make many changes so we'll have to wait and see.

hey, it can't be That bad after all.

Tobey always wanted to be a valkirie pilot and now he has the money to do it, he beat me first though.

But if you ask me that the toy stores will be filled with macross merchandise, valkiries everywhere, bring it on!! they took too long....

now why they can't call it macross? will they do a new story or take it from the beggining.

All of you swallow the sucky episodes 1-2-3 of SW, Macross/robotek was actually inspired on SW so there you go, enjoy a good cgi battle with valkiries and zentrans in space, and toby piloting the mechas.

I totally see Devon Aoki as minmay and sings dubbed by Mari Iijima

mrsatan wrote:

Maybe when a _good_ American-movie-based-on-an-anime gets made, I'll share your feelings:
The Guyver
Fist of the North Star
G-Saviour
... all not very good. (To be polite about it.)
Plus, you have to expect the name "Robotech" alone is going to be a lightning rod of negativity for some people.

Those were all zero-budget flicks designed to be dumped out onto the market. You're comparing those to projects with A-list stars and 100+ million dollar budgets. There hasn't been an anime adaptation yet that was properly made by talented people working with a real Hollywood budget that had the complete support of a major studio. You're comparing oranges to apples you haven't tasted yet.

As long as it's just Macross and not the other two shows, this could be a good movie. Hell, this could be a great movie if they hit the love triangle off correctly.

Sadly, I doubt ANY of those things will be done.

Saphiro01 wrote:

I am tired of initial bellyaching as well, but to be fair everyone has the right to an opinion. I actually would want Carl Macek involved in this if possible as a consultant since he did come up with a lot of the characterization and localized feel for Robotech.

And just for the record haters, Robotech is NOT a hack job. Edited for tv (lightly compared to some like Starblazers and Battle of the Planets I might add) maybe, but a hack job? The dubbed version of the Macross Saga in Robotech is very accurate to the original save a few unifying points that Carl Macek came up with (Robotechnology, Protoculture being a fuel source rather than an ancient race, some character name changes ala Kakizaki to Ben, et al.)

These two paragraphs are in conflict with each other. How can both Carl Macek "come up with a lot of the characterization," and Robotech be "very accurate to the original?" If the former is true, then Robotech is not accurate. If the latter is true, then Carl Macek couldn't come up with much of the characterization. Remember that Macross was given a dub even more "accurate to the original" a year before Robotech saw the light of day.

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Please remember your talking about one of the founding series that allowed almost all of us to BECOME anime fans. I think it's even safe to say if Robotech had not existed, than ANN wouldn't exist for you all to make your opinions known on (which are still just as valid as mine if a bit negative).

The operative words are "one of the founding series." There were anime adapted before Robotech did. There were going to be anime adapted even if Robotech didn't. To lay the existence of anime fandom on one series is a bit presumptuous. Remember that Carl Macek asked Harmony Gold to dub Macross out of its library of acquisitions specifically because he knew it already had fans in the C/FO, a Japanese animation fan group that existed before Robotech. Robotech was a major gateway anime--it wasn't the only gateway anime.

Jariten:

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I certainly am. It isn't like they gave exclusive directing rights to Uwe Boll or something.

They gave the directing rights of the new Street Fighter to the guy who screwed up Doom. *shudder*

ABetterTimeandPlace wrote:

Saphiro01 wrote:

I am tired of initial bellyaching as well, but to be fair everyone has the right to an opinion. I actually would want Carl Macek involved in this if possible as a consultant since he did come up with a lot of the characterization and localized feel for Robotech.

And just for the record haters, Robotech is NOT a hack job. Edited for tv (lightly compared to some like Starblazers and Battle of the Planets I might add) maybe, but a hack job? The dubbed version of the Macross Saga in Robotech is very accurate to the original save a few unifying points that Carl Macek came up with (Robotechnology, Protoculture being a fuel source rather than an ancient race, some character name changes ala Kakizaki to Ben, et al.)

These two paragraphs are in conflict with each other. How can both Carl Macek "come up with a lot of the characterization," and Robotech be "very accurate to the original?" If the former is true, then Robotech is not accurate. If the latter is true, then Carl Macek couldn't come up with much of the characterization. Remember that Macross was given a dub even more "accurate to the original" a year before Robotech saw the light of day.

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Please remember your talking about one of the founding series that allowed almost all of us to BECOME anime fans. I think it's even safe to say if Robotech had not existed, than ANN wouldn't exist for you all to make your opinions known on (which are still just as valid as mine if a bit negative).

The operative words are "one of the founding series." There were anime adapted before Robotech did. There were going to be anime adapted even if Robotech didn't. To lay the existence of anime fandom on one series is a bit presumptuous. Remember that Carl Macek asked Harmony Gold to dub Macross out of its library of acquisitions specifically because he knew it already had fans in the C/FO, a Japanese animation fan group that existed before Robotech. Robotech was a major gateway anime--it wasn't the only gateway anime.

The person(Saphiro01) is talking about the macross saga part of robotech.The macross part of robotech was not edited to badily at all(with the parts that Saphiro01 mentioned and obviously nudity and violence that edited) it was left alone(there was three parts to robotech..macross southern cross and invid aka new generation).
If he mentioned southern cross i would be agreeing with you.That was heavily "hacked" for tv.
I am bit aphrensive but at the same time hopeful.Hopeful because that hollywood did a decent job in my book with transformers(yes in my book i did have some minor beef with the transformer movie).

hikura wrote:

The person(Saphiro01) is talking about the macross saga part of robotech.The macross part of robotech was not edited to badily at all(with the parts that Saphiro01 mentioned and obviously nudity and violence that edited) it was left alone(there was three parts to robotech..macross southern cross and invid aka new generation).
If he mentioned southern cross i would be agreeing with you.That was heavily "hacked" for tv.

Even it that's true, the person's first statement still conflicts with the second statement--that is, Carl Macek couldn't have "come up with a lot of the characterization" of the Macross series. The characterization was already there for Macek to mine.

The person is simultaneously crediting Robotech for being original while claiming it is accurately derived from something else. That, strangely enough, sums up the internal tug-of-war of Robotech's identity.

While surface details and dialogue weren't edited much, the whole reason for the war and the ending of the series was completely changed. We still have Robotech fans who insist that an invisible SDF-2 appeared in the last episode, and that bridge crew didn't survive. (In Macross, the bridge crew don't die, but rise to higher posts, and some even get married and have children.)

When we have characters who lived die and people who died live, that's more than a minor edit job. "Hack" is too strong a word, but "lightly edited" is too weak a phrase. Throw in Robotech's added plot and scientific inconsistencies, and we can see why Robotech fans still debate among themselves what is "true" in Robotech.

Anyone else tired of people complaining about those that complain? It's kind of more cynical than the cynics. Wink

Especially when everything has it's initial supporters and detractors. Why not complain about how forums are made up of opinions that don't always reflect your own? One sided discussions are rather boring.

Are there people out there that actually ]look forward to remakes? Especially animation to live ones involving people who had nothing to do with the original in the first place. They went with animation in the first place for a reason. Some things just work better in a medium that allows certain things much more believability.

While I agree that anything has potential, I think your being a tad harsh, Zac. Sure, some people are set for anything, but outside of morbid curiosity or blind faith, a lot of people will have their reservations. Especially when only the concept is known, and one's own imagination fills in the blanks. Heck, there wasn't even that much of a negative reaction when you posted.

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Top Gun with mecha, drama, and some cool aliens (Or Star Wars with transformable mecha). How does that not scream American Popcorn Movie?

Oh, it does. Live Macross makes infinitely more sense than a live Voltron or DBZ. Sadly, that's probably all it's going to be. I can see a lot of the elements that made Macross unique being cut or minimized in favor of showcasing transforming mecha and stuff blowing up. As long as they don't mess with the love triangle (love triangle? In an american action film? Anime smile

) and the culture shock, this might still be good. The one thing we do know is that they won't skimp on the action, since I'm sure that's what most non-fans probably think the appeal is. Heck the article doesn't even mention the triangle or culture shock. Though I'll attribute that to lack of research.

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I am tired of initial bellyaching as well, but to be fair everyone has the right to an opinion. I actually would want Carl Macek involved in this if possible as a consultant since he did come up with a lot of the characterization and localized feel for Robotech.

Well thanks for that. Anime smile

In my opinion, I'd want Mecek kept as far away from this as possible. Anyone could've done what he did. He was just good at working quickly and came up with it first. I'm just glad that no one in HG is involved in the writing. It sounds like they got a decent writer. I just hope he can pin down that Macross and even it's Robotech counterpart is more than just action.

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And just for the record haters, Robotech is NOT a hack job. Edited for tv (lightly compared to some like Starblazers and Battle of the Planets I might add) maybe, but a hack job? The dubbed version of the Macross Saga in Robotech is very accurate to the original save a few unifying points that Carl Macek came up with (Robotechnology, Protoculture being a fuel source rather than an ancient race, some character name changes ala Kakizaki to Ben, et al.)

So cutting together three completely unrelated shows and passing it off as though it's supposed to be like that isn't considered a hack job? Last I checked, hacking one story to alter it is considered such, tacking two more shows on, I'd think, would cement that. Sure, Robotech didn't revive dead characters through dub edits like Voltron, but plenty was changed. Let's look at your examples.

Robotechnology. Mecek didn't even come up with this. He merely renamed Macross' Overtechnology to fit in with the sponsership, and had it be the source of the technology in Southern Cross and Mospeada. Even I don't care about this one. So I'll give you this one.

Protoculture being a fuel source rather than an ancient race. This is one of the mega changes. Adding that one changed the whole focus of Space War I from that of a misunderstanding to "who get's the magic batteries". It was also a plot point that lead to the final alliance between sides. I never could get why he named his madeup fuel source "First Civilization".

Name changes are more to personal preferences. Personally I loved how the Macross went from having an international crew to a completely american one.

While it's true that the story and setting of Macross and Mospeada were mostly unchanged, plenty was altered to give the shows a completely different feel. While Mecek didn't create all the characterizations like you say, he did alter the preexisting ones. He made Max less arrogant, Minmay more clueless, and Roy more perfect by removing his alcoholism and womanizing. The music also completely changes the impact of some scenes.

If you factor in how much this alters the feel of the show, I'd say it's rather fair to call Robotech a hackjob, butchering, or other unfavorable label. No reasoning changes the fact that it's three shows combined that were never supposed to be. I haven't even gotten into Southern Cross, which had an entire moon painted out to conceal the fact that it doesn't take place on Earth, or the fact that the Macross Saga killed most of the bridge crew when the bridge wasn't even touched.

If none of this is a hackjob to you, I'd really hate to see what you do consider such.

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Please remember your talking about one of the founding series that allowed almost all of us to BECOME anime fans. I think it's even safe to say if Robotech had not existed, than ANN wouldn't exist for you all to make your opinions known on (which are still just as valid as mine if a bit negative).

Ah, the sacred cow approach. Just because something might have had some significance doesn't mean you can't criticize it for what it is. Without the Foundering Fathers, there'd be no America. It doesn't mean we can't point out their human foibles

. Robotech was a big hit, but it's far from the only one. I think you're forgetting about Astro Boy, Starblazers, Battle of the Planets (which you even mentioned), Voltron, Speed Racer, Gigantor, and the early releases of US Renditions, Animeigo, CPM, RightStuf, ADV and even Mecek's own Streamline Pictures. Not to mention the old VHS fansub market basically inspired by Animeigo's efforts, and the 90's anime con boom. To completely remove their significence to the founding of american fandom just because some people still hold heavy nostolgia for a mid 80's hackjob that only happened for syndication reasons is a vast mistake on your part.

Yes, a lot of fans were created through Robotech. I'm not denying that. A lot have gone on to enjoy the original version. Many more than RT. But it was just part of a whole. ost modern fans don't even remeber that Robotech is an edit. To credit it with the creation of fandom as we know it vastly overstates it's importance. We'd still be hear with Robotech, we'd just be discussing something else. Anime smile

I'll go complain elsewhere if it bothers you guys so much. Though I'm not even complaining, just looking at both sides. Sure, it could be awesome if they treat it right. It could also be trash if they cut it to the bear minimum and relay on special effects. We won't know for sure until we get more details. As long as it has more plot and especially a lot more character development than Transformers, with a minimum of the cheese, it could be good. Pardon me if I'm a little nervous about the potential mainstream handling of a movie based off an heavily altered version of my second favorite anime.

Looks like I got sniped. Sorry for any redundant points you two.

ABetterTimeandPlace wrote:

hikura wrote:

The person(Saphiro01) is talking about the macross saga part of robotech.The macross part of robotech was not edited to badily at all(with the parts that Saphiro01 mentioned and obviously nudity and violence that edited) it was left alone(there was three parts to robotech..macross southern cross and invid aka new generation).
If he mentioned southern cross i would be agreeing with you.That was heavily "hacked" for tv.

Even it that's true, the person's first statement still conflicts with the second statement--that is, Carl Macek couldn't have "come up with a lot of the characterization" of the Macross series. The characterization was already there for Macek to mine.

The person is simultaneously crediting Robotech for being original while claiming it is accurately derived from something else. That, strangely enough, sums up the internal tug-of-war of Robotech's identity.

While surface details and dialogue weren't edited much, the whole reason for the war and the ending of the series was completely changed. We still have Robotech fans who insist that an invisible SDF-2 appeared in the last episode, and that bridge crew didn't survive. (In Macross, the bridge crew don't die, but rise to higher posts, and some even get married and have children.)

When we have characters who lived die and people who died live, that's more than a minor edit job. "Hack" is too strong a word, but "lightly edited" is too weak a phrase. Throw in Robotech's added plot and scientific inconsistencies, and we can see why Robotech fans still debate among themselves what is "true" in Robotech.

To a degree Macek did come up with characterization for the entire series of robotech.He developed the story arc for robotechnology,protoculture(the power source) and the the whole masters plot line involving the invid which did not exist.Also to a degree Robotech itself is orginial to a point.Yes it is derived from three different shows it was put together to create something new.Like taking barely,hops and water and getting beer.
The macross saga of robotech was not to hacked but other parts was.
The inconsistencies of the science part is part of a fictional story.Fictional science is just that..not real..fake..hence why it is called science fiction.

hikura wrote:

To a degree Macek did come up with characterization for the entire series of robotech.He developed the story arc for robotechnology,protoculture(the power source) and the the whole masters plot line involving the invid which did not exist.Also to a degree Robotech itself is orginial to a point.Yes it is derived from three different shows it was put together to create something new

Again, we're seeing the inherent conflict of Robotech. It is simultaneously praised for being both original, and yet praised for being accurately derived from something else. At best, it is partially original, and partially accurate.

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Like taking barely,hops and water and getting beer.

The barley, hops, and water analogy implies that the three original anime series were raw, unfinished products. A better analogy would be taking one acclaimed hit story and two much less popular stories and merging them with sometimes inconsistent editing. Because, that was exactly what it was.

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The macross saga of robotech was not to hacked but other parts was. The inconsistencies of the science part is part of a fictional story.Fictional science is just that..not real..fake..hence why it is called science fiction.

Robotech added more inconsistencies on top of the stories that was already there. A plot point would be described in one episode, only to be described as something else entirely in the next episode. The added narration would either over-explain the story--accidentally spoiling a plot surprise, or contradict what is actually seen onscreen. People's ranks and unit organizations would changed within the same scene. Being science fiction is not a blank check for adding internal inconsistencies or plotholes.

Zac wrote:

Anyone else sick of the instant negative reaction EVERY live-action project gets?

Do those of you who immediately leap onto the forums to proclaim how upset and disappointed you are that something is being adapted into live-action ever get tired of being so negative and lazy in your cynicism?

I find the instant screams of agony and the whining of "They're going to f***-up this [insert name here]" quite amusing really. Especially since there probably isn't even a screenplay yet.

LydiaDianne wrote:

Zac wrote:

Anyone else sick of the instant negative reaction EVERY live-action project gets?

Do those of you who immediately leap onto the forums to proclaim how upset and disappointed you are that something is being adapted into live-action ever get tired of being so negative and lazy in your cynicism?

I find the instant screams of agony and the whining of "They're going to f***-up this [insert name here]" quite amusing really. Especially since there probably isn't even a screenplay yet.

Especially since that really hasn't happened here. It's mostly a M vs. RT discussion along with some bits on the article's mention of copyright issues.

So not the drama (sorry, a KP marathon is on).

Leon Soma wrote:

Ah geez, man. Whatever. I will not be supporting this in any shape or form whatsoever. Not even if it's good. Seriously, f*ck Tobey Maguire.

Oh, it's there, Renaisance Otaku. You just haven't heard all of the screaming yet.

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NEWS: Warner, Tobey Maguire Acquire Robotech Film Rights