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NEWS: 5 Anime Studios Sue 4 'Heavy Downloaders' in Singapore

Maybe it wasn't a good idea to try to commercialize anime worldwide...

Here here ! I hope we see more people sued over this.I think the best way to hurt the downloaders where it counts the most,is the pocket book.Jail time and heavy fines is more then deserved in situations like this.

Some many so called 'fans' want nothing more then a free ride.
Many have little to no concept of right from wrong,or the value of the hard work of others.

If I watch anything past two eps,I buy it.I call it my fansub debt.I make regular payments to Rightstuf and YesAsia.

Near 5 grand spent US so far this year.Thats just on dvd's.

Greed1914 wrote:

Oh boy. I'm pretty sure you'll find a lot of people here who'll disagree with the idea that DVDs are a failure. Sure they aren't fast, but they're great for collectors. And don't even try starting the whole dub vs sub argument because it's old and right now I'll tell you that a lot of people DO want dubs, and they're not terrible, but people who started off on fansubs tend to have trouble with this.

Hmm. I wont try to tell people whether they should or shouldn't like DVDs or dubs over anything else, you are right in that those arguments belong elsewhere. However: this topic and these prosecutions are looking at fansubs, and the problem we are dealing involves people who are fans of subbed anime. These people may like the delayed dubs and DVDs too, but they clearly have a demand for subbed files, a demand which is not being met by any of the ways in which most anime is normally released. Don't forget that these fansub fans are the people we are talking about, and the fact that you might not be one and don't share their frustration doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Despite the needs of 'collectors', DVDs are not being seen as an alternative by a large number of fans. Timeliness and convenience are factors. But also cost. Not the fact that there is any cost at all, but the fact that most of it is unnecessary cost. No matter how much it costs to hire a server and a few translators, it costs much much more to hire voice actors, a studio, design a DVD and its case, press the DVD in a factory and ship it to stores. These things are unecessary, and take time as well as money. Fansub fans do not want them, not at the cost of years of waiting. They are willing to pay, but the product being offered is not what they want.

Greed1914 wrote:

Also, while people may be frustrated, it still doesn't legitimize fansubs. Heaven forbid that a show not be available immediately because it would be impossible to wait.

You can argue that nothing that is illegal can be legitimized, but there exist shades of grey. An example I would make would be if the government banned electric and hybrid cars to protect the current model of petrol and oil. Would it be wrong for people to secretly use those cars? Wouldnt that show demand exists for change, and that the oil industry is outdated, just like the current anime distribution system? For people that are satisifed with dubs and DVDs, they will still be available, just like oil and petrol would still be available alongside hybrids. A stronger but less relevant example would involve Nazi germany..

Good job completely ignoring my argument altogether, instead focusing on the fact that I download anime, which is irrelevant to my argument's validity.

Quote:

To bring up another belabored point: you don't hear dub fans complaining when they purchase bilingual discs, do you?

I wasn't even aware they made bilingual discs, and I'm sure if they could buy a cheaper DVD that had only their own language on it, they would.

To clarify, I don't think I have the right to download anime, nor do the fansubbers have the right to sub them. What I do, and what I have the right to do are not always quite the same.

Greed1914 wrote:

melonbread wrote: This is not the way to solve the problem. How about an alternative solution instead of a simple statement? And while it may not "solve" the problem, it's always a good idea for companies to let people know that they will protect their products.

It's a well know fact that going after downloaders does nothing to solve the problem. At all. If you're going after anyone you need to go to the people who run illegal streaming/download websites, or people uploading vast amounts of anime, but that's really not any kind of solution either.

The solution is putting out a product faster than that of the fansubbers, as we're seeing happen finally.

I was going to write in my original post that I thought the anime companies were just sueing these people for the money, but I just decided to post a statement.

Why act all high and mighty about it?

It was pretty dry.Funny though.

Anyway.

How many people download? Millions do.Everyday.

How many people get caught each year? People here and there do,few if any.

So when exactly,are the millions of downloaders supposed to fear this propaganda? IMO It's a dream of an impossible justice.They would have to do something pretty damn drastic to stop all these people.And even after they have sued these 4 heavy downloaders,I still don't think they'll have the money to do it.

@JINROH
Even if people do not want to pay a even a cent for anime, they are still fans of anime. If they weren't fans, they wouldn't watch them and they wouldn't take the risk of getting sued for the hobby.
Okay, they don't support the producrs/publishers by buying DVDs, but they are still true fans of anime!

Sueing fans is the wrong way!

I would argue that a true fan knows that they need to contribute at least a little bit monetarily. I'm not so foolish as to believe that people should pay for everything they ever watch, but not ever paying for it doesn't really help because then they're just bypassing payment and looking at illegal options as a replacement.

Greed1914 wrote:

I would argue that a true fan knows that they need to contribute at least a little bit monetarily. I'm not so foolish as to believe that people should pay for everything they ever watch, but not ever paying for it doesn't really help because then they're just bypassing payment and looking at illegal options as a replacement.

I think you need to start searching for a new user name Mr. Greed.

I don't think downloading, prostitution and drugs can be compared in this manner.

The one thing they do have in common is debate, but that's pretty much the end of it.

With drugs, the "victims" are the users. With prostitution the "victims" are the prostitutes. And finally, with downloads, the "victims" are the creators/producers/vendors.

With drugs and prostitution, the "victimless" argument states that the victims are themselves choosing to be involved in this activity and therefore, as long as the activity isn't forced on them, they are only hurting themselves, if even, and everyone has a right to hurt themselves as long as no one else is directly harmed.

This argument does not apply to downloads at all, because the "victims" are not willing participants.

With downloads, the "victimless" argument states that there is no victim because nothing is actually being taken from the "victims." No "theft" occurs in the traditional sense of the word, and the "culprits" aren't actually doing anything to the "victims."

On a completely different note, it's still apples and oranges even if the two "victimless" arguments are false. Much like theft can't be compared with murder, the alleged ill-effects of piracy don't hold a candle to the alleged ill-effect of drugs and prostitution.

Copyright and it's other "intellectual property" brethren are topics that requires serious discussion and perhaps serious revision. However trying to draw parallels with completely dissimilar topics doesn't aid the discussion in either direction.

-t

That's actually a really dumb comeback, and rather pointless too. See, that's like saying that every single possible TV show you ever watched, especially right through, you should be paying for. Should I be sending you a bill for reimbursing that childhood of yours? Or any of the series you watch now on TV? How about everyone else? Should they be paying for what's on TV just because they happened to watch it right through? No. We watch it because it's available. That's why. If it wasn't there, then the temptation wouldn't be there. Why do we watch what's on TV? Do we like it? Maybe, but not necessarily. We watch it because it's on. Sometimes it's because it's the best of the worst that's on during that time slot. And in before all the "well it's licensed, and the commercials help pay for it" blah blah blah. So? It's still just a matter of it being there. Just because it's licensed doesn't mean that the commercials are going to pay for the terrible ratings it's geting if no one's watching it.

I don't know where you live, but where I come from, I pay money to watch TV. You see, I have this magical thing called a 'cable bill' I agreed to give the cable company money every month, and in return, they broadcast TV channels into my home for my viewing pleasure,
Not only that, but the people making these TV shows are aware of, and have agreed to, having their shows broadcast on these channels so that I may watch them. I'm not doing it begind their back, or against their wishes. And it's all 100% LEGAL. You can't say the same thing about watching a fansub.
Comparing watching something on television to watching an illegal download is ridiculous, and shows that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Honestly though, I don't get why anime fans think that television is free. Makes me think a lot of them are still living with Momma and Daddy and having the cable bills paid for them.