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REVIEW: Kizumonogatari Part 2: Nekketsu


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Treeborn



Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 729
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:36 am Reply with quote
Couldn't make it out to see this one. But, if it's directed similar to the first, guess that's all the more reason to buy it when it's released on Blu-ray.
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:44 am Reply with quote
This was the first anime film I saw in theaters, and it was a very enjoyable experience. The writing, visuals, and comedy were all great, the last of which was definitely enhanced by being in a theater. I certainly don't mind the blood and sexuality, the latter of which is a consistent through-line of the franchise. Yeah Hanekawa is definitely more endowed than the TV version and frankly more than I would like, but not by too much and far from the worst I've seen from late night anime, even just considering this season (Looking at you Occultic;Nine). The only thing I regret is not seeing the first one in theaters. I'd say this would be the best anime film (well best film period) I've seen this year, but that title will likely be taken by Your Name when it comes out later this year Very Happy
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Oroboro



Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 143
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:03 am Reply with quote
What really struck me when watching this movie, is that from Hanekawa's perspective, she basically thinks that's she's walked into the scene as the protagonist of a Twilight-esque vampire romance novel. She attempts to get to know this broody loner, and he ends up being a broody loner super sexy vampire. Obviously she's hit the jackpot. Rolling Eyes

Which makes how her romance arc ends all the more depressing.

Shinobu barely did anything at all this movie, which was disappointing, but it looks like the third will have that in spades.

Biggest complaint? spoiler[I had to pay [expletive] $60 for parking because the cubs game was in town. Mad ]
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 4125
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:49 pm Reply with quote
Simply put, this is one of the best film experiences I've ever had. I was honestly a slightly underwhelmed by Tekketsu-hen, it was good, but it was very different than what I've come to expect from the series, and it ended with very little happening. BUT not Nekketsu. This part was pure orgasmic, glorious, excess. The animation was brilliant, the direction was sharp and clever, and the tone was somehow a perfect mix of very disparate dark dark moments, hilarious cartoony gags, and some of the sexiest stuff I've ever seen in the medium. And it all worked. I don't even know how, but it did. Oishi is a genius. And man, it was great to see Hanekawa get front and center like this once again. Very Happy
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SonOfaMonkey



Joined: 20 Dec 2013
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:02 pm Reply with quote
Calling it right now, this film had the best use of Thus Spoke Zarathustra, period.
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Jayhosh



Joined: 24 May 2013
Posts: 972
Location: Millmont, Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:31 am Reply with quote
Every time I hear about a new Monogatari thing coming out, I read the synopsis and think "hey, that sounds pretty interesting!" But I saw the first season a while back and was overall pretty mixed on it. On one hand, I was really impressed with the artistry and directing on display, and all of the various Japanese mythology and such that was being explored, but the cold and detached delivery of exposition and characters frustrated me. It's hard for me to get invested in characters who are near-literally unrelatable, like the girl who's problem was that she was too perfect. It's like the writing makes up its own fake rules and emotional basis, which made it hard for me to give a shit about anybody. And then there was all of the... fanservice? Or at least, I think that's what that stuff was supposed to be. Again, it felt like it was trying to be so avant-garde that not even something as pedestrian as that could be simple. But something I was sure I understood was that the main character likes groping little girls (But it's okay for the vampire girl! She's actually centuries old so it's totally legal!). Again, why should I care about this person? Is he even the main character? Does this series even have one? Speaking of fanservice, seeing a clip of that "toothbrush scene" from the second season solidified my decision to never watch anything Monogatari related ever again. So what it mainly comes down to is that I feel like the show's constantly directly telling me that I don't like it because I "just don't get it." And the fans kind of act that way too. Whenever I bring it up, they'll usually say something like "I didn't get it at first either," like I just need to give it time to sink in. But that was years ago when I watched it, and my opinion still hasn't changed at all.

I apologize for turning this review discussion into a rant about my thoughts on the series as a whole (or I guess just the first season). Sad I suppose I had to get it out since I've never really talked with anybody whose felt the same way (though I'm sure they're out there somewhere). Maybe I'll give the series another chance someday, if not just for the absolutely beautiful animation and overall design of everything (which I love).
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:42 am Reply with quote
Jayhosh wrote:
Every time I hear about a new Monogatari thing coming out, I read the synopsis and think "hey, that sounds pretty interesting!" But I saw the first season a while back and was overall pretty mixed on it. On one hand, I was really impressed with the artistry and directing on display, and all of the various Japanese mythology and such that was being explored, but the cold and detached delivery of exposition and characters frustrated me. It's hard for me to get invested in characters who are near-literally unrelatable, like the girl who's problem was that she was too perfect. It's like the writing makes up its own fake rules and emotional basis, which made it hard for me to give a shit about anybody. And then there was all of the... fanservice? Or at least, I think that's what that stuff was supposed to be. Again, it felt like it was trying to be so avant-garde that not even something as pedestrian as that could be simple. But something I was sure I understood was that the main character likes groping little girls (But it's okay for the vampire girl! She's actually centuries old so it's totally legal!). Again, why should I care about this person? Is he even the main character? Does this series even have one? Speaking of fanservice, seeing a clip of that "toothbrush scene" from the second season solidified my decision to never watch anything Monogatari related ever again. So what it mainly comes down to is that I feel like the show's constantly directly telling me that I don't like it because I "just don't get it." And the fans kind of act that way too. Whenever I bring it up, they'll usually say something like "I didn't get it at first either," like I just need to give it time to sink in. But that was years ago when I watched it, and my opinion still hasn't changed at all.

I apologize for turning this review discussion into a rant about my thoughts on the series as a whole (or I guess just the first season). Sad I suppose I had to get it out since I've never really talked with anybody whose felt the same way (though I'm sure they're out there somewhere). Maybe I'll give the series another chance someday, if not just for the absolutely beautiful animation and overall design of everything (which I love).


Being too perfect isn't Hanekawa's problem. To avoid spoilers (cause I don't remember how much they got into that in the first season) I'll just say significant family issues to say the least. That seeming perfection is also ultimately a facade. It's not that she doesn't have negative qualities or emotions, but that she represses them, which manifest themselves in Black Hanekawa. Personally, I find her line of "I don't know everything. I only know what I know" very relatable. Not just the line itself, as everyone doesn't know everything and can relate to that, but rather in the context of her being a model student, I understand the sentiment behind it well. So at least for me, she is not nigh unrelatable.

As to fanservice, it is definitely meant as fanservice. Even if they were doing other stuff in those scenes, the fanservice component of those scenes were definitely meant as fanservice.

Nick Creamer wrote an editorial for this site last year on the series that may interest you. I don't know if it will change your mind, but it may show you how at least one fan of series understands it.
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Jayhosh



Joined: 24 May 2013
Posts: 972
Location: Millmont, Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:24 pm Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:
Being too perfect isn't Hanekawa's problem. To avoid spoilers (cause I don't remember how much they got into that in the first season) I'll just say significant family issues to say the least. That seeming perfection is also ultimately a facade. It's not that she doesn't have negative qualities or emotions, but that she represses them, which manifest themselves in Black Hanekawa. Personally, I find her line of "I don't know everything. I only know what I know" very relatable. Not just the line itself, as everyone doesn't know everything and can relate to that, but rather in the context of her being a model student, I understand the sentiment behind it well. So at least for me, she is not nigh unrelatable.


Honestly, it's been so long since I've seen it that I can barely even remember who's who. I'll just take your word on it and assume that was the character I was thinking of. I'm guessing the first season didn't focus on her background as much if I felt that way.

Quote:
As to fanservice, it is definitely meant as fanservice. Even if they were doing other stuff in those scenes, the fanservice component of those scenes were definitely meant as fanservice.


I remember the scenes with Araragi and the school girl (again, can't remember her name) being a big turn off for me. I'd like to think I don't consider myself to be an uptight stick in the mud when it comes to fanservice (currently watching and enjoying Keijo here), but some of it felt just plain excessive. I think maybe it wasn't necessarily the fanservice itself that bothered me so much as the major tonal whiplash that came with it.

Thanks for linking that article, it was very helpful. It did a much better job at explaining the appeal of the series than any fan I've talked to about it thus far. Many of his point were things I'd kind of already assumed, that the series was a sort of jack of all trades. And perhaps for some people it's a master of none, and for others the complete opposite. It did increase my drive to give it another shot. I know that the series' chronological order is different from its release order. Which would you recommend following if I'd go down the rabbit hole again?
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5516
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:10 pm Reply with quote
Jayhosh wrote:
And the fans kind of act that way too. Whenever I bring it up, they'll usually say something like "I didn't get it at first either,"


Is is exactly how I feel, TBH. If you click older Monogatari articles on this site, you might even see me talking about how I don't understand the hype for this series and how I find that overrated. Monogatari Second Season basically changed all that for me. I absolutely love the franchise now and I can't get enough. I'm super excited to see this though the sexuality sounds a bit beyond what I like (well, I don't really "like" any sexuality in my anime but if it's done for a good reason, I can appreciate it)
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:35 pm Reply with quote
@Jayhosh the release order is fine enough for the full TV series, though Nise is probably going to be the most challenging for you and it is the next one. Though either chronologically or release order, you'll have to watch that next. I'm not sure you can skip it due to some characters introduced in it. I think like Kougeru you'll like Second Series though. You probably could watch the OVAs (one of the Nekos, Hana, and Tsuki) when you want considering you watched the first. You could definitely watch Kizu though a) you would have to wait for the physical release or less legitimate means to see it, and b)it isn't finished yet.
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killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 2451
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:37 pm Reply with quote
Jayhosh wrote:
It did increase my drive to give it another shot. I know that the series' chronological order is different from its release order. Which would you recommend following if I'd go down the rabbit hole again?


You could wait for Kizu to finish to watch that next. It's the one where you need the least context, originally the one released right after Bake, and much more straightforward than the rest of the series imo.

Nise is definitely a love-it-or-hate-it thing and it's the next one, so I can't say I'd recommend it to someone who's already mixed on the series as a whole. Neko: Kuro somewhat assumes you've watched Nise, but you could give that one a try too.
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Shaterri



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 173
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:02 pm Reply with quote
Jayhosh wrote:

I remember the scenes with Araragi and the school girl (again, can't remember her name) being a big turn off for me. I'd like to think I don't consider myself to be an uptight stick in the mud when it comes to fanservice (currently watching and enjoying Keijo here), but some of it felt just plain excessive. I think maybe it wasn't necessarily the fanservice itself that bothered me so much as the major tonal whiplash that came with it.


This is a very fair reading of things, I think. The way I've phrased it in describing the series to friends is that various series use fanservice to different ends: some series use it as a raison d'etre; some use it to cover holes in plot; some use it almost apologetically (I'm looking your way, Maoyu. The Monogatari series is unabashed about using fanservice as a weapon, or an insult; time and again it presents material in as titillating a manner as possible while at the same time doing its best to make the viewer horrified (in one fashion or another) or disturbed at the prospect of finding it arousing. It's definitely not for everyone, but the mix itself is unlike anything else out there, and that has a certain appeal in its own right.
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AyanamiRei



Joined: 27 Aug 2016
Posts: 87
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:05 am Reply with quote
I will first present my apologies because this will be about the first cinema chapter. But I suppose my question (who stayed unanswered on an anime forum)works for the second one too.

Quote:
What were alll those french screentexts for? What brings this tentative of duality between red and black? I have absolutely no idea what they were supposed to add to the video itself or express and will eagerly wait for an enlightened answer.

The french is not the problem since I am french.


Now, a few questions about the new part:
- is the film as luminescent as the first one? Almost no scene escaped the lighting bath.
- are there still scenes where the pretty drawings don't mesh at all with the (sometimes very good) CGI backgrounds and seem like a pasting? (it doesn't seem so, because there is nothing about it in the review, except that everything is beautifully rendered)

Note: unable to watch Bakemonogatari further than the 1st episode (it was too heavy, not in a good way for me), I read the US release of Kizu..
The book seemed to me to be just another teenager meets vampire/foreigner story (with the supposed obsessive over-sexuality of a male teen and of a "Miss Perfect/Innocent behind a veil", like every US fiction writer seems to think adolescents are), where the young hero finally discovers what he wants/who he is. With the sugar being the attention the narrator gives to the reader and the few (sub)cultural references. That and three overbuilded fights (but I imagine this is only a thing in this prequel).
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 4125
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:58 pm Reply with quote
AyanamiRei wrote:
I will first present my apologies because this will be about the first cinema chapter. But I suppose my question (who stayed unanswered on an anime forum)works for the second one too.

Quote:
What were alll those french screentexts for? What brings this tentative of duality between red and black? I have absolutely no idea what they were supposed to add to the video itself or express and will eagerly wait for an enlightened answer.

The french is not the problem since I am french.


Simply put, it's an artistic decision that is trying to convey a Film Noir atmosphere, which works for this story.


Quote:
Now, a few questions about the new part:
- is the film as luminescent as the first one? Almost no scene escaped the lighting bath.


As this is a Oishi/SHAFT production, there are a lot of really high intensity, high contrast color shots. I've seen so much of the stuff now, that I can't recall if there are any exactly like what you described, but it is much less about Araragi realizing and coming to terms with being a vampire in this episode, so there are fewer shots that are created to convey a fear of light, and I would consider it generally subdued. Blue plays a larger role in terms of filters in this film as well, compared with the use of red in the first film. Red is still here, but it is not as prominent.

Quote:
- are there still scenes where the pretty drawings don't mesh at all with the (sometimes very good) CGI backgrounds and seem like a pasting? (it doesn't seem so, because there is nothing about it in the review, except that everything is beautifully rendered)


The CG backgrounds meshed much better in this film. They still largely stick with the hyperrealistic background design, but most of them are either more monochrome, or just generally simple, like a field of grass. There was nothing as out of place as Araragi sitting in the train station, or at his house in the first movie.
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AyanamiRei



Joined: 27 Aug 2016
Posts: 87
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:44 pm Reply with quote
relyat08 wrote:

Simply put, it's an artistic decision that is trying to convey a Film Noir atmosphere, which works for this story..

So, red and black are supposed to be the main colours of this type of movie? And I assume french was used to hint at "film noir" even more (because of the use of french words in the expression)?

It would have been certainly more clear and effective by recreating this kind of "atmosphere".

PS: now that I think about it, I first thought it was a reference to Stendhal's "Le rouge et le noir" (but I discard the idea because I couldn't see any connection)
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